Bozo Nicholson
5 Alarm Fire™
- Jun 6, 2015
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Nikita Kucherov is the clear favorite for the Art Ross Trophy
- Thread starter ViD
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Lol. Do you remember in 2017 when Hedman outscored Karlsson but only got 3 first place votes to EK's 63? Unfortunately I think what you are reading is anecdotal, I have zero faith we see objective voting.
A Russian, who's a loner and who has a divisive reputation, playing for a small market team. That'll be a much bigger factor in who wins than anything else.
If all three ended the year with the same points I bet Kucherov wouldn't get a single 1st place vote.
DownIsTheNewUp
Registered User
Brayden Point is -14. Stamkos -23. The weird thing is that Kuch has managed to be a plus on this team.
Getting some of the worst goaltending in the league a big part.
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22FUTON9
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- Jun 30, 2010
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The fact that Mack and Kuch have vastly better plus minus compared to their teammates is pretty impressive. I’m not even sure how Mack’s plus minus is so much better than Rantanen’s even though they basically play identical minutes
When the Leafs beat Tampa last year did the fans steal their victim complex? Kucherov’s Hart was near-unanimous, and Hedman had another Norris finalist year when he played injured in 20-21 that was underserved. Im really not seeing this bias.
It's chill, Tampa fans aren't going to go burn our city down if something doesn't go our way.
I believe that there is some lingering residual bias from the hockey media against non-traditional markets and Russians that hasn't worked itself out completely after half a century of conservative stewardship. The vast majority of the PHWA are from Canadian/Northern cities, I don't think its a grand conspiracy, it's subtle and in 2024 no one is going to come out and admit it like Don Cherry for obvious reasons.
Anyways with that said, interesting that you'd contradict yourself that there is no bias in the same breath that you'd say Hedman was undeserving. Which is it? I think you are being intellectually dishonest if you think these journalists are 100% objective.
BringBackTheV
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- Dec 2, 2017
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The Russian who's previously won.
Add to that 2 guys in the West might split some votes.
Calderon
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- Mar 24, 2006
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We've been adjusting stats for a long time to adequately be able to compare today's and yesterday's superstars' production to that of the greatest of all time. This includes the likes of Crosby, Ovechkin and, since then as scoring levels have taken an encouraging ascend, McDavid, Draisaitl, Kucherov, MacKinnon, Matthews (in terms of goal scoring) and so forth. Some of us have salivated with the idea that today's best players are creeping closer to Gretzky and Lemieux as the numbers in the point race climb up. Even so, Wayne and Mario haven't been caught up in numbers, mind you, but I'd say the number of apologists in favor of the best talent of today is growing because what we have today is in absolute terms the best player pool ever -- scrubs basically don't get a roster spot and the bottom sixes can score and dangle pretty well, too.
Imagine things keep devolping this rate. Would be weird if in a few years we'll be in a situation where we'll have to downplay, say, MacDavid's, Matthews', Bedard's or Celebrini's numbers as they all of a sudden are way too inflated to be adequately stacked up against what Gretzky and Mario did some decades ago. Will be too funny with the yes buts if Bedard scores like 98 goals or Celebrini or Gavin McKenna or whoever somehow top 220 points (Gretzky's records are soooo far though, lol). This is obviously something that isn't in the horizon at all right now but who knows, stuff can happen. Maybe the state of the hockey market will demand that scoring records be broken and appropriate actions are taken to facilitate it. It's just funny when the shoe is on the other foot. Then again, maybe I took the shoe off and the smell just made my head spin and caused this post.
Imagine things keep devolping this rate. Would be weird if in a few years we'll be in a situation where we'll have to downplay, say, MacDavid's, Matthews', Bedard's or Celebrini's numbers as they all of a sudden are way too inflated to be adequately stacked up against what Gretzky and Mario did some decades ago. Will be too funny with the yes buts if Bedard scores like 98 goals or Celebrini or Gavin McKenna or whoever somehow top 220 points (Gretzky's records are soooo far though, lol). This is obviously something that isn't in the horizon at all right now but who knows, stuff can happen. Maybe the state of the hockey market will demand that scoring records be broken and appropriate actions are taken to facilitate it. It's just funny when the shoe is on the other foot. Then again, maybe I took the shoe off and the smell just made my head spin and caused this post.
Hockey Outsider
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- Jan 16, 2005
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This is just statistical trivia. But some might find it interesting.
Kucherov currently leads the Lightning in scoring by 51 points. In all of NHL history, there have only been 17 instances of a player leading his team in scoring by 50+ points. Here's where they finished in Hart trophy voting:
Kucherov currently leads the Lightning in scoring by 51 points. In all of NHL history, there have only been 17 instances of a player leading his team in scoring by 50+ points. Here's where they finished in Hart trophy voting:
- Won the Hart trophy - 8x (Gretkzy 1981, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1987; Lemieux 1988*)
- Runner-up - 5x (Lemieux 1986, 1989; Lafleur 1979; Gretzky 1991; Gilmour 1993)
- 3rd place - 1x (Yzerman 1989)
- 7th place - 1x (Sakic 1991*)
- 9th place - 2x (Kariya 1996*, Bure 2001*)
The Macho King
Back* to Back** World Champion
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How many of those also won the Art Ross? My guess is the 8 that won, Mario in 89, and maybe Gretzky 91?
Hockey Outsider
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- Jan 16, 2005
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Just these:
- Won the Hart trophy - 8x (Gretzky 1981, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1987; Lemieux 1988*)
- Runner-up - 2x (Lemieux 1989; Gretzky 1991)
The exceptions? Lemieux losing the Hart in 1989 has been discussed ad naseum on HFBoards (it was due to the "narrative" of Gretzky immediately improving the Kings franchise). In 1991, it was voter fatigue and/or people being impressed by Hull's 86 goals.
Obviously, none of this is a guarantee that Kucherov will win the Hart. (It's not even a guarantee that he'll win the Art Ross). But like I said, it's interesting trivia.
Zwui21
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- Aug 31, 2019
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Guess which team sinks to the f***ing bottom of the ocean when his star player is off the ice.
GoldenKnight
Registered User
It looks like MacKinnon leads in the positive goal differential there with a +41 with him on/off the ice.
I find that stat impressive. I still think Mackinnon deserves the Hart but personally don't really care who wins. Both Kucherov or Mackinnon are very worthy winners.
Plus our PP, easily the best in NHL, is dependent on Kuch. When he's off the ice our top unit looks like a mess
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The best player brings the most value. Add in a playoff berth and that should give you the basis for the Hart trophy.
DitchMarner
TheGlitchintheSwitch
That's one stat. It's compelling, but there are others.
This isn't supported by any data or anything, but I feel Kucherov is a greater PP contributor - not just in terms of points produced but also in terms of being a catalyst for effective set-ups and driving offensive output from the top unit in general.
At any rate, PP importance is certainly important and something to consider as well.
- Jul 24, 2005
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This likely means McDavid misses at least 2 of the last 6 for the Oilers. Maybe more.
They should sit him until the playoffs begin. Playoffs are locked up. No need to risk anything.
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