Nikita Kucherov is the clear favorite for the Art Ross Trophy

[snag]

He absolutely will not be sitting. This is the same guy who hunts down empty net points with every morsel in his bones when his team is up by 3 goals in the first game of the season.

Are you talking Kucherov (12), Mack (8) or McDavid (5)?

And the Oilers got their asses handed to them in the first game of the season.

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

 

[cupface52]

All three play again today. Both Mack and Kuch start their game at 7, while McDavid plays at 9. Will there be lead changes, if so how many?

Mack vs Jackets(3.65gaa, 31st)
Kuch vs Red Wings(3.32gaa, 24th)
McDavid vs Blues(3.01, t14th)

 

[Mickey Marner]

Four more assists required to break the record for most assists by a right winger. He currently has three of the top six seasons as well.

NHL Records

 

[Mav3rick07]

Let's see the ppg AFTER McDavid's slow start (which was due to injury, which he played through). Reminds me of when Mario caught Lafontaine- not as drastic of course because that was insane.

 

[T REX]

But he was injured. And the pace number isn't real. He's not going to have 164 points. LOL. EVery player in every sport goes through peaks and valleys...streaks...injuries...your final number is your final number. 164 is FAKE. LOL.

SMDH.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

All three play again today. Both Mack and Kuch start their game at 7, while McDavid plays at 9. Will there be lead changes, if so how many?

Mack vs Jackets(3.65gaa, 31st)
Kuch vs Red Wings(3.32gaa, 24th)
McDavid vs Blues(3.01, t14th)

Mack 3 points.
Kuch 4
Mcdavid 3

Just a hunch

 

[tinyzombies]

Exactly. And just as the case is being made for McDavid, he decides to make his own case and grabs the scoring lead lol. Love all those players, but I only put Mario next to McDavid. Not Gretz, not Orr, not Howe.

 

[Hasbro]

All three play again today. Both Mack and Kuch start their game at 7, while McDavid plays at 9. Will there be lead changes, if so how many?

Mack vs Jackets(3.65gaa, 31st)
Kuch vs Red Wings(3.32gaa, 24th)
McDavid vs Blues(3.01, t14th)

Correction: they start their games at 5 and 7 MOUNTAIN.

 

[Toby91ca]

Exactly. And just as the case is being made for McDavid, he decides to make his own case and grabs the scoring lead lol. Love all those players, but I only put Mario next to McDavid. Not Gretz, not Orr, not Howe.

I'm sorry, but that's a bit laughable.

At the same point in their careers, Gretzky had scored 583 goals (29% better than #2 at 451) and 1,669 points (74% better than #2 at 957), won 8 Hart Trophies, 7 Art Ross trophies (tied for another his rookie year), 5 Pearsons and 4 Cups.

That's not enough to compete with McDavid?

 

[Ulysses31]

puck needs to cross the lyon if kuch wants points today

 

[tinyzombies]

I'm sorry, but that's a bit laughable.

I understand your feelings, but the proof is being delivered to your eyeballs on a daily basis. The dude is like spiderman out there- and the league has never been this good. Everyone can skate, has decent hands and can shoot, the goalies are gigantic acrobats. And McDavid is shredding every single one of them.

 

[Toby91ca]

I understand your feelings, but the proof is being delivered to your eyeballs on a daily basis. The dude is like spiderman out there- and the league has never been this good. Everyone can skate, has decent hands and can shoot, the goalies are gigantic acrobats. And McDavid is shredding every single one of them.

I've watched Gretzky's entire career and I've watched McDavid's entire career.....have you? If you say yes, I'm guessing you are lying as I find it impossible to reach such a conclusion if you've watched them both.

 

[tinyzombies]

I've watched Gretzky's entire career and I've watched McDavid's entire career.....have you? If you say yes, I'm guessing you are lying as I find it impossible to reach such a conclusion if you've watched them both.

I saw all of Gretzky and Mario and McDavid, yes. Gretzky was a magician, but he was playing against Lurches and midget goalies. He still put up strong numbers after his back injury and when the league got better though. Not knocking Gretzky down, I just think McDavid is better. And Mario was better too. If he had been healthy, all those records would belong to Mario. Gretzky even said it. And give Mario Mark Messier as his 2C? lol. Swap out Draisitl for Messier lol... same result. Again, none of that knocks Gretzky down at all... he was still the 1C over Messier and he's right there. But McDavid and Mario to me were better.

 

[Toby91ca]

I saw all of Gretzky and Mario and McDavid, yes. Gretzky was a magician, but he was playing against Lurches and midget goalies. He still put up strong numbers after his back injury and when the league got better though. Not knocking Gretzky down, I just think McDavid is better. And Mario was better too. If he had been healthy, all those records would belong to Mario. Gretzky even said it. And give Mario Mark Messier as his 2C? lol. Swap out Draisitl for Messier lol... same result. Again, none of that knocks Gretzky down at all... he was still the 1C over Messier and he's right there. But McDavid and Mario to me were better.

Agree to disagree then....while Gretzky's time had offensive advantages, same held true for everyone and you can argue less of a worldwide league then, but it's still not enough to overcome the level of domination Gretzky had at that time vs. what McDavid is doing now.

Gretzky had a 6 year stretch where he won scoring titles by the following percentages over 2nd highest scorer - 65%, 58%, 63%, 54%, 52% and 69%.....those are just crazy dominant numbers that are hard to make sense of. I get that we can't compare the same way for a number of reasons, but the dominance is just too high to overcome in my opinion.

 

[Spirits]

The dude is like spiderman out there

True, Spiderman never won a Stanley Cup either.

Gretzky had a 6 year stretch where he won scoring titles by the following percentages over 2nd highest scorer - 65%, 58%, 63%, 54%, 52% and 69%.....those are just crazy dominant numbers that are hard to make sense of. I get that we can't compare the same way for a number of reasons, but the dominance is just too high to overcome in my opinion.

And McDavid isn't outpacing MacKinnon or Kucherov at all right now.

 

[cupface52]

I saw all of Gretzky and Mario and McDavid, yes. Gretzky was a magician, but he was playing against Lurches and midget goalies. He still put up strong numbers after his back injury and when the league got better though. Not knocking Gretzky down, I just think McDavid is better. And Mario was better too. If he had been healthy, all those records would belong to Mario. Gretzky even said it. And give Mario Mark Messier as his 2C? lol. Swap out Draisitl for Messier lol... same result. Again, none of that knocks Gretzky down at all... he was still the 1C over Messier and he's right there. But McDavid and Mario to me were better.

Gretzky was winning Art Rosses on ES scoring alone, 6 times at least 124 ESP. Lemieux broke 100 ESP once, I can give him credit for another as he had 96 in 60. Gretzky hit 100+ ESP 8 times, but it's only fair he also gets credit for another as he had 91 in 64.

Francis is such a bum as a #2C. Tocchet, Stevens, Jagr all bum wingers.

 

[Juxta Position]

Agree to disagree then....while Gretzky's time had offensive advantages, same held true for everyone and you can argue less of a worldwide league then, but it's still not enough to overcome the level of domination Gretzky had at that time vs. what McDavid is doing now.

Gretzky had a 6 year stretch where he won scoring titles by the following percentages over 2nd highest scorer - 65%, 58%, 63%, 54%, 52% and 69%.....those are just crazy dominant numbers that are hard to make sense of. I get that we can't compare the same way for a number of reasons, but the dominance is just too high to overcome in my opinion.

and that's really the only way to truly measure a players dominance is what they do against their peers. Gretzky was winning scoring titles by those percentages when EVERYBODY was playing against midget goalies and lurches out there, but yet no one else was putting up his kind of numbers.

It's not like Gretzky had the benefit of modern training and equipment and was transported back in time, everyone was on the same playing field with the same benefits as Gretzky had, and he still shredded everybody and made a mockery of previous NHL records.

 

[tinyzombies]

and that's really the only way to truly measure a players dominance is what they do against their peers. Gretzky was winning scoring titles by those percentages when EVERYBODY was playing against midget goalies and lurches out there, but yet no one else was putting up his kind of numbers.

It's not like Gretzky had the benefit of modern training and equipment and was transported back in time, everyone was on the same playing field with the same benefits as Gretzky had, and he still shredded everybody and made a mockery of previous NHL records.

Relative dominance. Relative. Only 8 teams even played systems in the early 80s. Gretzky made all teams adopt systems. And the late 70s Habs. Teams HAD to install some kind of system after that, not just 'stay in your lane' and for goalies to 'stay on your feet'. Hockey was still in the dark ages, aside from Toe Blake and his disciples. And the Tarasov revolution had yet to hit, like you said.

Mario had a lot harder league to play against. But if he was healthy, he would have broken or been up there with everything Gretzky did. I'm sure both of their games translate well today. I'm not arguing that Gretzky wasn't great.

 

[DownIsTheNewUp]

Can you please cite your source that Kuch doesn't have the work ethic to apply himself to GAMES that actually count in the standings?

Here, I'll help you out...

Pursuit of perfection drives Kucherov's intense summer training | Tampa Bay Lightning

One week after the Bolts' playoff exit, the winger was back on the ice skating with Hockey Hall of Famer Adam Oates

www.nhl.com

SMDH

Exactly. Kuch plays 13 playoff series in 4 years and one week after being eliminated is back on the ice working at it. Anyone basing his work ethic on the skills competition is clueless.

 

[Video Nasty]

It’s not necessary for people to drag Kucherov to prop McDavid up. First, McDavid doesn’t need excuses. He’s not a player like Crosby who needed every excuse in the book trotted out for why he couldn’t win more scoring races.

Second, it only benefits McDavid’s overall story to beat out the ultra elite like a Kucherov.

It is not a negative that Kucherov is out there spamming empty net points and it will only look better for McDavid when he still beats him in the scoring race.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

It’s not necessary for people to drag Kucherov to prop McDavid up. First, McDavid doesn’t need excuses. He’s not a player like Crosby who needed every excuse in the book trotted out for why he couldn’t win more scoring races.

Second, it only benefits McDavid’s overall story to beat out the ultra elite like a Kucherov.

It is not a negative that Kucherov is out there spamming empty net points and it will only look better for McDavid when he still beats him in the scoring race.

He is not a player like Crosby your right. Crosby is a Golden goal scoring 2 time playoff mvp stanley cup champion along with all his harts rosses and lindsays. More with likes of mario, wayne, in contrast to mcdavid who hasent won a single championship more akin to the dionnes of the world

 

[CokenoPepsi]

All three playing tonight

 

[Video Nasty]

He is not a player like Crosby your right. Crosby is a Golden goal scoring 2 time playoff mvp stanley cup champion along with all his harts rosses and lindsays. More with likes of mario, wayne, in contrast to mcdavid who hasent won a single championship more akin to the dionnes of the world

All that time in hiding and not one word of new material.

 

[McPoyle]

All that time in hiding and not one word of new material.

Hes playing the "hits". Its an old act.

 

[tinyzombies]

and that's really the only way to truly measure a players dominance is what they do against their peers. Gretzky was winning scoring titles by those percentages when EVERYBODY was playing against midget goalies and lurches out there, but yet no one else was putting up his kind of numbers.

It's not like Gretzky had the benefit of modern training and equipment and was transported back in time, everyone was on the same playing field with the same benefits as Gretzky had, and he still shredded everybody and made a mockery of previous NHL records.

I disagree. I have eyes and there are ways to look at relative dominance, project improvements to abilities. You can also take away abilities from McDavid going backwards. Does that turn him into Cournoyer? I don't think so. And on the face of it, as it is vs how it was, there's no debate (other than Mario like I said, just because of his size, reach, release, deception AND ability to make plays with the new rules (which I love btw).