Player Discussion Nick Suzuki Part 11

[417]

At first, it seems like Bergevin fleeced the gk in that trade. But now, it doesn't seems to be the case. Suzuki is good, but I'm not sure he's 8 millions good, since he seems to be very inconsistent. But, he's still young and the team is a dumpster fire this season, so there's a good chance he bounce back

He's not making 8M.

Also, no one fleeced anyone in that trade...both teams benefitted.

 

[MTL Dirty Birdy]

He's not making 8M.

Also, no one fleeced anyone in that trade...both teams benefitted.

Inconsistent…. He’s still on an ELC playing first line minutes and one of the point leaders on his team. His contract kicks in next year and through his twenties.

this bugs me…… when we bridge a player( Subban) it’s « ahhhhh why? We should have signed long term. When he sign big after results (Price, Gally) it’s » you don’t pay guys for what they did ». Now we have talent that has progressed every year and leads the team in playoffs….. we sign him for a deal that will be a total steal over the course of it….. and people are still not happy. Are we supposed to expect players to sign one year, what have you done lately contracts? Cmon guys

 

[417]

Inconsistent…. He’s still on an ELC playing first line minutes and one of the point leaders on his team. His contract kicks in next year and through his twenties.

Yes, like every other player on this team and as is the case with the majority of NHL players.

this bugs me…… when we bridge a player( Subban) it’s « ahhhhh why? We should have signed long term. When he sign big after results (Price, Gally) it’s » you don’t pay guys for what they did ». Now we have talent that has progressed every year and leads the team in playoffs….. we sign him for a deal that will be a total steal over the course of it….. and people are still not happy. Are we supposed to expect players to sign one year, what have you done lately contracts? Cmon guys

Basically this, agreed with what you wrote above...fans and media can't stop obsessing over contracts because they can manipulate Capfriendly.com

It's all quite tiresome if you ask me.

 

[LaP]

At first, it seems like Bergevin fleeced the gk in that trade. But now, it doesn't seems to be the case. Suzuki is good, but I'm not sure he's 8 millions good, since he seems to be very inconsistent. But, he's still young and the team is a dumpster fire this season, so there's a good chance he bounce back

He never really fleeced anybody. It was always a good trade for both teams. A little bit like when Iginla was traded for Nieuwendyk. Patch is an undervalued player around here and Tatar the other way around. What the guy did playing with DD and Dale MF Weise is not short of amazing. He really carried a whole offense on his back with Subban and Markov against a coach who loved grinders and grinding to a fault.

He had the opportunity to fleece the other GM by successfully trading Tatar at his peak. Had he successfully traded Tatar for a 1st round pick then yeah i think it could have been considered a very favorable trade for us. But MB being MB he did not. It's a good trade and one that should have kick started a rebuild in 2020 by trading some vets at the deadline but MB happened and here we are with a likely overpriced Suzuki and not much else to show.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Not worried in the slightest. I'm not going to judge any player on a bottom-feeder. The man performed beyond expectations when the stakes were highest, he will be fine when it matters... a few years from now.

 

[Sagikev]

Not worried in the slightest. I'm not going to judge any player on a bottom-feeder. The man performed beyond expectations when the stakes were highest, he will be fine when it matters... a few years from now.

And he'll be a full fledged veteran once the next wave of kids come in, he'll be the guy they'll look up to (the top dawg as Evans say) and tbh I'm quite happy with that. Suzuki looks like a good guy on and off the ice so definitely a role model I would want on my team. He's not Weber-like of course, but still a good figure for the youngsters

 

[JoelWarlord]

People are aware that the cap has gone up since the last time we had a legitimate all situations top 6C with no qualifiers or soft matchups required, right? Top 6 centers cost 7+ now, that's just the way it is. Kevin Hayes got 7.1 in free agency. The reason why we haven't paid 7M for a top 6C is because we haven't had one since that became the going rate, not because Suzuki's contract is some aberration. Desharnais, Danault, and Domi cost us less because they all had glaring flaws at one end of the ice or the other, it is not normal for both of your top 6 Cs to cost 5M or less under the current 80+ cap structure.

His 7.875 next year is 9.66% of the cap, slightly above what Plekanec was making between 2010 and 2018 where his 5M and 6M AAVs were 8.8% and 8.4% of the cap at the time he signed those deals. I think it's just really stupid to be worried about him making 7.875 NEXT year because he's been a little bit cold between Hoffman and Evans on a team where half the forward lineup were in the AHL to start the year and Ben Chiarot is our PP1 QB. It's just absolutely the least of our worries, especially if we're entering a tank phase where it doesn't even matter if he's cap efficient until 3-4 seasons from now anyway.

 

[Mario le Magnifique]

Not worried in the slightest. I'm not going to judge any player on a bottom-feeder. The man performed beyond expectations when the stakes were highest, he will be fine when it matters... a few years from now.

I remember Galchenyuk's 30 goals season. Yes, one's shouldn't judge a player on a bottom feeder, even if they did good. That's how it goes when there is no pressure to win.

 

[BenchBrawl]

I remember Galchenyuk's 30 goals season. Yes, one's shouldn't judge a player on a bottom feeder, even if they did good. That's how it goes when there is no pressure to win.

Galchenyuk wasn't a smart player like Suzuki, and he had never done anything in the playoffs. Suzuki is like a Bergeron, useless player on a bottom feeder. You need a championship team then he shines more because his cerebral game can be put to good use with great players around him.

 

[Whitesnake]

As of today, we haven't won that trade. Time to revisit that trade for a loss for Bergevin. As of today.

Don't give the extra pressure to Patch with an uneccessary C. Find him a real C. Benefit from his goal scoring. As of today, there is no indication that Nick will become a No1 C. No indication that Norlinder will be a NHL regular's.

If anything, while we could have done worst, chances are we lost that trade.

Our inability to draft C's made having to get rid of a 40-goal scorer. And people were defending Timmins.

 

[angusyoung]

For Suzuki to make the team Canada over the more established guys, he's going to need to continue playing like this until the management decides the roster.

This post didn't age well has it. The way he's been playing he'll be lucky to not be sent down to the A

 

[Hector Salamanca]

As of today, we haven't won that trade. Time to revisit that trade for a loss for Bergevin. As of today.

Don't give the extra pressure to Patch with an uneccessary C. Find him a real C. Benefit from his goal scoring. As of today, there is no indication that Nick will become a No1 C. No indication that Norlinder will be a NHL regular's.

If anything, while we could have done worst, chances are we lost that trade.

Our inability to draft C's made having to get rid of a 40-goal scorer. And people were defending Timmins.

30-35 goals ok, he Never score 40 dont lie to prouve a point it rather lame

 

[Hector Salamanca]

This post didn't age well has it. The way he's been playing he'll be lucky to not be sent down to the A

For Who ? I mean the overeaction are kinda lame, he is fine. That team is absolute Garbage, wth you gonna Do if you lose your only real NHL center

 

[417]

As of today, we haven't won that trade. Time to revisit that trade for a loss for Bergevin. As of today.

Don't give the extra pressure to Patch with an uneccessary C. Find him a real C. Benefit from his goal scoring. As of today, there is no indication that Nick will become a No1 C. No indication that Norlinder will be a NHL regular's.

If anything, while we could have done worst, chances are we lost that trade.

Our inability to draft C's made having to get rid of a 40-goal scorer. And people were defending Timmins.

I don't understand why we can't just agree that both teams won this trade..each accomplished EXACTLY what they wanted out of that trade.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

This post didn't age well has it. The way he's been playing he'll be lucky to not be sent down to the A

Well no. The points aren't there, but he's been one of the better players on the team in the last stretch. People were calling for him to be send down in the ahl last year too when he hit a cold stretch, and we all know what happened right after that. He scored 30 pts in 31 games (reg season + playoffs) and was our 2nd best player in the playoffs.

Ive seen a lot of posts singling out players, but it doesnt really make sense. Almost every single player on the team has underperformed this year. Drouin, Chariot, Romanov, and Anderson are the only players who have played to expectations.

When only 4 of 20+ players play like they should, the issue doesnt lie on the players. It lies on the system and coaching staff.

 

[Whitesnake]

I don't understand why we can't just agree that both teams won this trade..each accomplished EXACTLY what they wanted out of that trade.

Because to this day, there's nothing Tatar gave us. Norlinder is still a question mark. So it becomes Pacioretty for Suzuki. And TODAY, I have no idea how this is a win-win. TODAY. The only win we had is because of our inability to get a C. So we won, 'cause we got a C. While Vegas won 'cause they CLEARLY had the best player. RIGHT NOW.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Because to this day, there's nothing Tatar gave us. Norlinder is still a question mark. So it becomes Pacioretty for Suzuki. And TODAY, I have no idea how this is a win-win. TODAY. The only win we had is because of our inability to get a C. So we won, 'cause we got a C. While Vegas won 'cause they CLEARLY had the best player. RIGHT NOW.

What a ridiculous take. We traded a veteran player who was done in Montreal and received a top-6 winger, a top-6 center with a ton of years ahead of him (and who already helped lead us the Finals) and a draft pick. What the hell more would you want? You keep putting words in caps as if it means anything. Does that mean that Montreal was CLEARLY winning the trade RIGHT THEN when we were eliminating Pacioretty and Las Vegas from the playoffs?

Your post makes no sense.

 

[417]

Because to this day, there's nothing Tatar gave us.

Other than some really good hockey spread out over 3 years.

Norlinder is still a question mark. So it becomes Pacioretty for Suzuki. And TODAY, I have no idea how this is a win-win. TODAY. The only win we had is because of our inability to get a C. So we won, 'cause we got a C. While Vegas won 'cause they CLEARLY had the best player. RIGHT NOW.

No..it's Tatar + Norlinder + Suzuki.

Doesn't matter how you try to eliminate the other factors, they're there or in the case of Tatar, were there.

 

[dcyhabs]

Inconsistent…. He’s still on an ELC playing first line minutes and one of the point leaders on his team. His contract kicks in next year and through his twenties.

this bugs me…… when we bridge a player( Subban) it’s « ahhhhh why? We should have signed long term. When he sign big after results (Price, Gally) it’s » you don’t pay guys for what they did ». Now we have talent that has progressed every year and leads the team in playoffs….. we sign him for a deal that will be a total steal over the course of it….. and people are still not happy. Are we supposed to expect players to sign one year, what have you done lately contracts? Cmon guys

Seconded. People begrudge players cap money in all cases. You evaluate who our core/key players are, you try to guess how long they will stay that way, and you pay them without complaining or annoying them, which is not to say that you don't negotiate.

You try as much as possible not to overpay players who are not core. You may really want some of them, and they may help you win, but you never want to be in a position that you don't have cap money to add a player you need, or to retain a core player, because you gave out generous deals to unnecessary players because you had cap space and didn't understand the long term ramifications.

A bridge or no bridge affects risk and cap hit. That is important, you don't want to just randomly give players like Drouin a deal that assumes increased future production, but it is secondary.

You definitely don't want to do what Bergevin loved doing and acquire some meh vets at or near the deadline and then watch your coach make the team worse by playing them. You don't have to spend your cap money, and you certainly don't want to be stuck paying replaceable players when you need cap space.

Bergevin paid a lot of lower line/pairing a lot more than most people think they were worth. He objected to paying players like Subban, Markov, Radulov, Price, and Danault when they were the main elite/key/core players he had. You have to pay the guys who make you win and have a revolving door ready for the other guys. There are no prizes for keeping your 3rd pairing defensemen and bottom two lines for multiple years. There is no excuse for letting key players leave for nothing, or for bad returns, that is how Savard (unwillingly), Houle, and Bergevin (twice) made good teams bad.

You cannot expect key players to take home team discounts and non-key players can't expect to be overpaid.

Suzuki is the only player currently playing for the habs who may be core. He's not able to drag the current guys to a competitive level, but he's the only guy other teams really have to watch out for and he has very little support. He was valuable during the cup run. Pay him and don't worry unless his play drops off. The habs shouldn't need cap space for the next 3-4 years, they should be retaining salary to get better picks for vets. There is a good chance Nick will be an underpaid veteran once the team is competitive.

 

[MTL Dirty Birdy]

Seconded. People begrudge players cap money in all cases. You evaluate who our core/key players are, you try to guess how long they will stay that way, and you pay them without complaining or annoying them, which is not to say that you don't negotiate.

You try as much as possible not to overpay players who are not core. You may really want some of them, and they may help you win, but you never want to be in a position that you don't have cap money to add a player you need, or to retain a core player, because you gave out generous deals to unnecessary players because you had cap space and didn't understand the long term ramifications.

A bridge or no bridge affects risk and cap hit. That is important, you don't want to just randomly give players like Drouin a deal that assumes increased future production, but it is secondary.

You definitely don't want to do what Bergevin loved doing and acquire some meh vets at or near the deadline and then watch your coach make the team worse by playing them. You don't have to spend your cap money, and you certainly don't want to be stuck paying replaceable players when you need cap space.

Bergevin paid a lot of lower line/pairing a lot more than most people think they were worth. He objected to paying players like Subban, Markov, Radulov, Price, and Danault when they were the main elite/key/core players he had. You have to pay the guys who make you win and have a revolving door ready for the other guys. There are no prizes for keeping your 3rd pairing defensemen and bottom two lines for multiple years. There is no excuse for letting key players leave for nothing, or for bad returns, that is how Savard (unwillingly), Houle, and Bergevin (twice) made good teams bad.

You cannot expect key players to take home team discounts and non-key players can't expect to be overpaid.

Suzuki is the only player currently playing for the habs who may be core. He's not able to drag the current guys to a competitive level, but he's the only guy other teams really have to watch out for and he has very little support. He was valuable during the cup run. Pay him and don't worry unless his play drops off. The habs shouldn't need cap space for the next 3-4 years, they should be retaining salary to get better picks for vets. There is a good chance Nick will be an underpaid veteran once the team is competitive.

I agree with this breakdown man. Great post!

 

[dcyhabs]

Well no. The points aren't there, but he's been one of the better players on the team in the last stretch. People were calling for him to be send down in the ahl last year too when he hit a cold stretch, and we all know what happened right after that. He scored 30 pts in 31 games (reg season + playoffs) and was our 2nd best player in the playoffs.

Ive seen a lot of posts singling out players, but it doesnt really make sense. Almost every single player on the team has underperformed this year. Drouin, Chariot, Romanov, and Anderson are the only players who have played to expectations.

When only 4 of 20+ players play like they should, the issue doesnt lie on the players. It lies on the system and coaching staff.

The coaching staff doesn't look stellar but most coaches have limited impact. Don't credit Ducharme too much for the cup run, don't blame him too much for this year. Evaluate him on last regular season and keep him around for the tank. Get a teaching coach.

The problem with this team is that the core players are gone or injured and everyone left, except maybe Suzuki, can only look good if there are better players sharing the ice. The guys out there aren't terrible or anything, but almost all of them are replaceable. The non replaceable guys are injured or on other teams.

 

[angusyoung]

Well no. The points aren't there, but he's been one of the better players on the team in the last stretch. People were calling for him to be send down in the ahl last year too when he hit a cold stretch, and we all know what happened right after that. He scored 30 pts in 31 games (reg season + playoffs) and was our 2nd best player in the playoffs.

Ive seen a lot of posts singling out players, but it doesnt really make sense. Almost every single player on the team has underperformed this year. Drouin, Chariot, Romanov, and Anderson are the only players who have played to expectations.

When only 4 of 20+ players play like they should, the issue doesnt lie on the players. It lies on the system and coaching staff.

I was kidding if you didn't realize that.Regardless,don't think he had a chance of making the Olympic team,just no room for him at this stage of his career.

 

[angusyoung]

For Who ? I mean the overeaction are kinda lame, he is fine. That team is absolute Garbage, wth you gonna Do if you lose your only real NHL center

See above.

 

[Adam Michaels]

Suzuki is the only player who hasn't missed a single game in the last calendar year. If Romanov wasn't scratched, I think he would also be part of that list.

Suzuki and Romanov are two very durable players.

 

[The Great Weal]

I defend Suzuki a lot, but 4 points in the last 17 games is unacceptable even though the team sucks.