Player Discussion Nick Suzuki Part 11

[Rapala]

But in the stretch from when MSL took over to when he was taken from the lineup, CC was indeed our best player.

This is where we part ways. NO he wasn't. Suzuki was. Go ahead and ignore everything else Suzuki does besides putting more points during the time you mention. I don't see how anyone could say Caufield was our best player during that stretch?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

This is where we part ways. NO he wasn't. Suzuki was. Go ahead and ignore everything else Suzuki does besides putting more points during the time you mention. I don't see how anyone could say Caufield was our best player during that stretch?

Because scoring goals is a more rare talent. It’s the most valuable skill a skater can have. And CC showed he could produce even when the rest of the team wasn’t scoring.

The two way play you get from Suzuki is a lot easier to replace than elite goal scoring is.

 

[Rapala]

Because scoring goals is a more rare talent. It’s the most valuable skill a skater can have. And CC showed he could produce even when the rest of the team wasn’t scoring.

The two way play you get from Suzuki is a lot easier to replace than elite goal scoring is.

Sure Let us rehash the season shall we.

26-10-36 -10

26-40-66 -13

One if these guys played a large portion of the season with scrubs the other got to play with Nick Suzuki. One of these players was far more valuable to his team than the other. Let me know when that changes and I'll buy into your argument.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Sure Let us rehash the season shall we.

26-10-36 -10

26-40-66 -13

One if these guys played a large portion of the season with scrubs the other got to play with Nick Suzuki. One of these players was far more valuable to his team than the other. Let me know when that changes and I'll buy into your argument.

Let’s look at what Caufield has done since MSL took over - that’s what I originally said.

Caufield scored 46 goals in 80 games.

And he did it on an offensively starved team. He did it with Suzuki’s scoring in the toilet too. He does it no matter how the team is playing. Those are superstar numbers and he’s doing it at 21 years old.

The only question I really have on him is - can he stay healthy?

 

[Ozmodiar]

Sure Let us rehash the season shall we.

26-10-36 -10

26-40-66 -13

One if these guys played a large portion of the season with scrubs the other got to play with Nick Suzuki. One of these players was far more valuable to his team than the other. Let me know when that changes and I'll buy into your argument.

Good goal:assist ratio for Suzuki.

Good two-way centers who can get their line mates involved, along with minute munching top D, are most appreciated by a coach - glue guys. MSL & co know this - why they made him the captain.

 

[Benstheman]

Suzuki is not in his prime yet. So I will say yes, he is 1st line material.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I have three guys at $7.875M if Dubois is acquired.

We then need two guys at $9-10M, though if we luck out with an ELC for a year or two on a Fantilli or someone able to play the top half 1C role, and if Guhle can be the 1D at least as good as Matheson, then maybe we have spare cap space while we suffer through the Armia and Gallagher years.

With a guy like PLD or someone equivalent to Suzuki then the D feel a lot better. It’s still not ideal but two 1B type centers would at least give us something up the middle.

 

[Rapala]

Let’s look at what Caufield has done since MSL took over - that’s what I originally said.

Caufield scored 46 goals in 80 games.

And he did it on an offensively starved team. He did it with Suzuki’s scoring in the toilet too. He does it no matter how the team is playing. Those are superstar numbers and he’s doing it at 21 years old.

The only question I really have on him is - can he stay healthy?

Caufield has done nothing without Suzuki since MSL took over. What percentage of his goals has Suzuki been involved in. Caufield is not and never has driven play on his own. You keep referring to him scoring when Suzuki's points dried up yet Suzuki was still on the ice and was definitely influencing play regardless. You do realize Nick Suzuki plays on the same offensively starved team right. 46 goals in 80 games are not superstar numbers with not much else attached to them. I don't think we are on the same page when it comes to what constitutes a superstar. Caufield scores goals we all know that but he still has plenty of issues with other parts of his game. His superstar status resides in your head both he and Nick Suzuki will be very hard pressed to ever reach that level.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

I don't see how people can compare caufield to suzuki. Suzuki is just a much better all around hockey player. Let's not act like Cole is some kind of Patrick Kane 90 point winger lol. Both are incredible but please put suzuki with two absolute plugs and he will still be pretty good not so sure about putting Cole out there with two plugs

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Caufield has done nothing without Suzuki since MSL took over.

I heard this last year and it was disproven as the season went on.

Yes, it's a very small sample size but when the team crashed offensively this season, Suzuki when with it. Caufield did not. CC continued to score goals with or without Suzuki.

If anything, the evidence shows that CC is going to drive the offense a lot more than Suzuki will.

What percentage of his goals has Suzuki been involved in. Caufield is not and never has driven play on his own. You keep referring to him scoring when Suzuki's points dried up yet Suzuki was still on the ice and was definitely influencing play regardless. You do realize Nick Suzuki plays on the same offensively starved team right. 46 goals in 80 games are not superstar numbers with not much else attached to them. I don't think we are on the same page when it comes to what constitutes a superstar. Caufield scores goals we all know that but he still has plenty of issues with other parts of his game. His superstar status resides in your head both he and Nick Suzuki will be very hard pressed to ever reach that level.

They are on the same line together. It stands to reason that they will be involved in each other's goals going forward. But we already have evidence that CC doesn't need Suzuki to score.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I don't see how people can compare caufield to suzuki. Suzuki is just a much better all around hockey player. Let's not act like Cole is some kind of Patrick Kane 90 point winger lol. Both are incredible but please put suzuki with two absolute plugs and he will still be pretty good not so sure about putting Cole out there with two plugs

CC has 46 goals in his last 80 games. And he did it on a team that couldn't score. You don't think that's a rare talent? Seriously? That's incredible production for a 21 year old.

Be honest, you think CC couldn't score with say... Dach as his center? Or a guy like Plekanec? He's already shown he can score on his own.

If we have Suzuki as our best center, we'd better have somebody just as good as our number two. If we don't, we're going to be at a real disadvantage at the position. And we don't have Carey Price anymore to make up the difference.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

CC has 46 goals in his last 80 games. And he did it on a team that couldn't score. You don't think that's a rare talent? Seriously? That's incredible production for a 21 year old.

Be honest, you think CC couldn't score with say... Dach as his center? Or a guy like Plekanec? He's already shown he can score on his own.

If we have Suzuki as our best center, we'd better have somebody just as good as our number two. If we don't, we're going to be at a real disadvantage at the position. And we don't have Carey Price anymore to make up the difference.

I agree Cole is a rare talent in terms of goal scoring something Suzuki could never have at his level and something that's very important to winning hockey games I just think Cole needs to show us more than scoring goals. If you look at guys who score at Cole Caufields pace of around 46 a season like you are pointing out, Most if not all of them are better at other aspects of the game than cole is.
Both need eachother and are fantastic but yeah its tough to say if players like cole are *rarer* than players like Suzuki since its not like either of them are really lighting it up point wise compared to how high league scoring is ( I know the team is garbage). Playing together for an entire season would certainly help both of their cases.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

People putting Suzuki as a second center hare completely lost.

Again another career high playing most of the season alone and 50percent of it with Caufield alone.

All the times he made great passes to Anderson , Dadonov hoffman etc and they keep wiffing .

If Caufield and Suzuki had a proper third linemate . Suzuki easily get 80 points.

Also was overusee most of the season die to being alone the in the middle.

He also played injured for a while.

Yeah he's the best center we got in decades

 

[BaseballCoach]

With a guy like PLD or someone equivalent to Suzuki then the D feel a lot better. It’s still not ideal but two 1B type centers would at least give us something up the middle.

3 Top-6 Cs really, with Dach or PLD able to switch to wing.

For next year, I also sign Monahan on a one-year bonus-laden deal as permitted by the CBA. Try to ice two first lines and one second line.

Heineman-Suzuki-Caufield
Dubois-Dach-Anderson
Slafkovsky-Monahan-Ylonen
RHP-Evans-Gallagher

 

[beowulf]

Overall I am pleased with the season he had. Only player on the team to not miss a game and minus a slow spot early in the second half of the season, he had a good season production wise. His production would likely had been better with more consistent linemates and a team not hit by so many injuries. Nice that the Habs have the number 1 center they have been looking for since well the last decade really?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I agree Cole is a rare talent in terms of goal scoring something Suzuki could never have at his level and something that's very important to winning hockey games I just think Cole needs to show us more than scoring goals. If you look at guys who score at Cole Caufields pace of around 46 a season like you are pointing out, Most if not all of them are better at other aspects of the game than cole is.
Both need eachother and are fantastic but yeah its tough to say if players like cole are *rarer* than players like Suzuki since its not like either of them are really lighting it up point wise compared to how high league scoring is ( I know the team is garbage). Playing together for an entire season would certainly help both of their cases.

Caufield does not need Suzuki. We’ve already seen that.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

People putting Suzuki as a second center hare completely lost.

Again another career high playing most of the season alone and 50percent of it with Caufield alone.

All the times he made great passes to Anderson , Dadonov hoffman etc and they keep wiffing .

If Caufield and Suzuki had a proper third linemate . Suzuki easily get 80 points.

Also was overusee most of the season die to being alone the in the middle.

He also played injured for a while.

Yeah he's the best center we got in decades

Best Center in decades? Is that saying much? It speaks more to the incompetence of management than anything else.

Koivu is probably an equivalent and he was a poor man’s first line center. Good but not great player.

Again, glad he’s with us. Smart, good two way play. But we’re going to need more if we want to win something.

73rd in scoring and 32nd in centers. That’s not number one production.

 

[tooji]

You have to contexualize his production with how many more points he had compared to everyone else on the team. What other centers scored almost double the points of the second highest scorer on their team? Even when Plek and Saku were getting those numbers I don’t remember such a big disparity

 

[Ozmodiar]

I agree Cole is a rare talent in terms of goal scoring something Suzuki could never have at his level and something that's very important to winning hockey games I just think Cole needs to show us more than scoring goals. If you look at guys who score at Cole Caufields pace of around 46 a season like you are pointing out, Most if not all of them are better at other aspects of the game than cole is.
Both need eachother and are fantastic but yeah its tough to say if players like cole are *rarer* than players like Suzuki since its not like either of them are really lighting it up point wise compared to how high league scoring is ( I know the team is garbage). Playing together for an entire season would certainly help both of their cases.

Yeah, CC will have to learn to round out his game and be a little more than just the trigger man. Look at a player like debrincat, whose career assists match his goal totals. Let’s see if CC can do something similar over a full season, then we can begin to compare to Suzuki.

 

[Rapala]

CC has 46 goals in his last 80 games. And he did it on a team that couldn't score. You don't think that's a rare talent? Seriously? That's incredible production for a 21 year old.

Be honest, you think CC couldn't score with say... Dach as his center? Or a guy like Plekanec? He's already shown he can score on his own.

If we have Suzuki as our best center, we'd better have somebody just as good as our number two. If we don't, we're going to be at a real disadvantage at the position. And we don't have Carey Price anymore to make up the difference.

I'm not sure what the argument is? This is the Nick Suzuki thread. How would Suzuki look with Dach on his wing instead of Hoffman, Pitlick, Ylonen, Anderson. There are two things I'm not seeing eye to eye with you on. One we will never reconcile which player is superior and of greatest value to his team. Two what category of player are we talking about. These guys are currently scratching at star level status. They are also tied to the hip when Caufield is healthy. Their production numbers will automatically be co-dependent. Should they end up being split example Caufield with Dach that would change the dynamic totally given we don't have another forward as creatively talented as Kirby. Would a RHP/Suzuki pairing be equivalent to a Caufield/Dach pairing?
I wonder which of those two pairings would be tasked with Dzone draws and top line matchups. The interesting thing for me will be when the team moves from playing the "Hakuna Matata" game to the "Learning How to Win Game." The players will be expected to play a very sound defensive game. I know a certain player who has a huge leg up in that area.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I'm not sure what the argument is? This is the Nick Suzuki thread. How would Suzuki look with Dach on his wing instead of Hoffman, Pitlick, Ylonen, Anderson. There are two things I'm not seeing eye to eye with you on. One we will never reconcile which player is superior and of greatest value to his team. Two what category of player are we talking about. These guys are currently scratching at star level status. They are also tied to the hip when Caufield is healthy. Their production numbers will automatically be co-dependent. Should they end up being split example Caufield with Dach that would change the dynamic totally given we don't have another forward as creatively talented as Kirby. Would a RHP/Suzuki pairing be equivalent to a Caufield/Dach pairing?
I wonder which of those two pairings would be tasked with Dzone draws and top line matchups. The interesting thing for me will be when the team moves from playing the "Hakuna Matata" game to the "Learning How to Win Game." The players will be expected to play a very sound defensive game. I know a certain player who has a huge leg up in that area.

The question is: how good is he?

Is he good enough to lead a team to a cup as its best player? I’d say no.

I had hoped he’d prove himself to be a legit number one this year. That didn’t happen. Doesn’t mean it can’t, but I see him more as a Koivu type talent rather than a true number one.

He’s still young in his career. Next year might be the year he ‘arrives’ and I hope that’s the case.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

You have to contexualize his production with how many more points he had compared to everyone else on the team. What other centers scored almost double the points of the second highest scorer on their team? Even when Plek and Saku were getting those numbers I don’t remember such a big disparity

That’s fair. But CC continued to produce when Suzuki dropped off the cliff along with everyone else.

Maybe it was injury but we need him to be more consistent offensively.

 

[SlafySZN]

I don't see how people can compare caufield to suzuki. Suzuki is just a much better all around hockey player. Let's not act like Cole is some kind of Patrick Kane 90 point winger lol. Both are incredible but please put suzuki with two absolute plugs and he will still be pretty good not so sure about putting Cole out there with two plugs

Then why people kept saying during the season that Suzuki played with ‘’plugs’’ half the year that’s why his point total hasn’t improved and with Cole he would’ve had more?

 

[SlafySZN]

Yeah, CC will have to learn to round out his game and be a little more than just the trigger man. Look at a player like debrincat, whose career assists match his goal totals. Let’s see if CC can do something similar over a full season, then we can begin to compare to Suzuki.

He would’ve had more assists if more players would’ve been scoring when he played. He set up many chances that didn’t go in the back of the net. And since he’s almost the only one who can finish then he’s the one who they pass the puck to. With more talent around he’ll get more assists.

 

[beowulf]

Best Center in decades? Is that saying much? It speaks more to the incompetence of management than anything else.

Koivu is probably an equivalent and he was a poor man’s first line center. Good but not great player.

Again, glad he’s with us. Smart, good two way play. But we’re going to need more if we want to win something.

73rd in scoring and 32nd in centers. That’s not number one production.

Might help his production if people can stay healthy.