Player Discussion Nick Suzuki Part 11

[the valiant effort]

Not worried about this young man in the slightest.

 

[Ozmodiar]

Which coincides with losing the only legitimate top line winger he had.

I have zero doubts if Caufield had stayed healthy, he'd be closing in on a 40 goal season and Suzuki would be comfortably at a PPG pace.

I don’t think it coincides with losing CC.

His worst stretch was probably in December when CC was still playing. 1 point in 8 games.

 

[Rapala]

I don’t think it coincides with losing CC.

His worst stretch was probably in December when CC was still playing. 1 point in 8 games.

December was when Dach got moved to Center. That line was no where near as dynamic afterwards.

 

[Ozmodiar]

December was when Dach got moved to Center. That line was no where near as dynamic afterwards.

Yes, this is it.
After that move he had 3pts in 13gp, which includes the aforementioned 1 in 8.

 

[Rapala]

Yes, this is it.
After that move he had 3pts in 13gp, which includes the aforementioned 1 in 8.

Which is why the search must go on for a proper RW for Suzuki. Get some quality stability there, improve our PP, and his numbers should take a significant jump. Not to mention I believe Suzuki will continue to work at becoming more consistent. Keep in mind as our team gets better Marty will use Suzuki's line in far more exploitation matchups than he currently does. I know I would.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Not worried about this young man in the slightest.

Depends on your expectations I guess.

I’m not worried about him either but I think he’s more of a great 2nd line center than a very good 1st.

To me there is a very clear cut difference in talent between him and CC. CC is a legit fist liner with superstar potential. I don’t see that in Nick.

 

[NobleSix]

He'll hit 80 points with a full season with Caufield I have no doubt. 66 points playing with bums for half the year is honestly pretty impressive.

Looking forward to what he can bring next year.

 

[KevSkillz4]

He'll hit 80 points with a full season with Caufield I have no doubt. 66 points playing with bums for half the year is honestly pretty impressive.

Looking forward to what he can bring next year.

Suzuki and Caufield are lock to have PPG season sonner than later. If they play together over 82 games. They are just too good. Dach aswell can produce high numbers. 3 PPG talent players, for sure.

 

[Rapala]

Depends on your expectations I guess.

I’m not worried about him either but I think he’s more of a great 2nd line center than a very good 1st.

To me there is a very clear cut difference in talent between him and CC. CC is a legit fist liner with superstar potential. I don’t see that in Nick.

You still on about this. Suzuki not good enough to play with the amazing Goal Caufield.
He isn't a superstar and has a hell of mountain to climb yet to become one. We need to wait a couple of seasons at least while finding consistency and durability before we can state that.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

You still on about this. Suzuki not good enough to play with the amazing Goal Caufield.

On about what?

Do you think Nick’s a legit number one?

Do you think CC is?

He isn't a superstar and has a hell of mountain to climb yet to become one. We need to wait a couple of seasons at least while finding consistency and durability before we can state that.

I like Suzuki. I can see helium putting up some good years. But he reminds me of Koivu. A guy so many would argue was better than he was.

 

[Rapala]

On about what?

Do you think Nick’s a legit number one?

Do you think CC is?

I like Suzuki. I can see helium putting up some good years. But he reminds me of Koivu. A guy so many would argue was better than he was.

On about how great you think Caufield is. The reality is Nick Suzuki is our best player and will remain so until someone dislodges him from that spot. Caufield hasn't come close to doing that. As for being a true number one center the answer is simple, on this team at this time he is. Once again someone will have to dislodge him. We are a couple of years away from that at least. I find it strange suggesting Caufield is top line material while Suzuki isn't. Particularly when we consider the duties tasked to each of these players.

 

[Sorinth]

Depends on your expectations I guess.

I’m not worried about him either but I think he’s more of a great 2nd line center than a very good 1st.

To me there is a very clear cut difference in talent between him and CC. CC is a legit fist liner with superstar potential. I don’t see that in Nick.

To me yes he's a legit 1st liner without question, but odds are he isn't a superstar 1st liner.

That said he certainly has the potential, we saw in the playoffs that he could step up and be as good as the other teams superstars so it's more a question of consistency in the regular season. When your team is already eliminated from the playoffs by November it's got to be hard mentally to remain at peak motivation/play. But it's also possible he'll never be able to have that level of consistency during the regular season which if he can bring it during the playoffs doesn't really bother me.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

To be yes he's a legit 1st liner without question, but odds are he isn't a superstar 1st liner.

Was Koivu a first liner?

That said he certainly has the potential, we saw in the playoffs that he could step up and be as good as the other teams superstars so it's more a question of consistency in the regular season. When your team is already eliminated from the playoffs by November it's got to be hard mentally to remain at peak motivation/play. But it's also possible he'll never be able to have that level of consistency during the regular season which if he can bring it during the playoffs doesn't really bother me.

I like him a lot. I do. But I see the same thing with him that I did with Koivu - a lot of people wanting him to be something he’s not.

Maybe he’ll crack 90 points someday. But that only happens with the right linemates. He’s not going to be the player to lead the way.

He can be an important part of a championship team but I don’t ever think he’ll be ‘the guy’ to lead us there.

 

[Sorinth]

Was Koivu a first liner?

I like him a lot. I do. But I see the same thing with him that I did with Koivu - a lot of people wanting him to be something he’s not.

Maybe he’ll crack 90 points someday. But that only happens with the right linemates. He’s not going to be the player to lead the way.

He can be an important part of a championship team but I don’t ever think he’ll be ‘the guy’ to lead us there.

Yes Koivu was a 1st line center for most of his career, and like all non-superstars if you play them with bottom-6 players regularly they won't crack 90 points.

Nobody, not even McDavid can singlehandely lead a team to the cup. If you want to win you need a large group of guys who can all lead at different times in different ways.

 

[HuGo Burner Acc]

Was Koivu a first liner?

I like him a lot. I do. But I see the same thing with him that I did with Koivu - a lot of people wanting him to be something he’s not.

Maybe he’ll crack 90 points someday. But that only happens with the right linemates. He’s not going to be the player to lead the way.

He can be an important part of a championship team but I don’t ever think he’ll be ‘the guy’ to lead us there.

One thing I enjoy about both Suzuki and Caufield is they seem to be clutch players when the moment is needed. I honestly believe he'd be around a PPG player this season if Caufield and/or Dach continued to be his linemate. And unless you're Sidney Crosby or Connor Mcdavid, etc your offensive production is pretty much dependant on who you play with. Even the two I mentioned above while going far, can only go so far without elite linemates in the past

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Yes Koivu was a 1st line center for most of his career, and like all non-superstars if you play them with bottom-6 players regularly they won't crack 90 points.

I always thought of him as a guy better suited to the 2nd line.

Nobody, not even McDavid can singlehandely lead a team to the cup. If you want to win you need a large group of guys who can all lead at different times in different ways.

Agreed.

But you need a superstar to lead the way. I don’t think Suzuki is good enough to LEAD a team to a cup. If Nick’s your number one center, you’d better have HOF caliber players elsewhere.

 

[Non Player Canadiens]

Totally agree. He carried this team through alot. Must have felt miserable.

He hasn't missed a single career game and is improving constantly since the first day he showed up.

To me he's basically Kovalev and Plekanec into one if you think about it.

Kovalev-like:
- Not overly big yet very solid on his skates
- Not a speedster
- Physical endurance
- Can control the puck under pressure
- Dekes and puck handling
- Sneaky shots (can't match shot velocity yet though)
- Creativity
- Steals pucks/passes
- Very monotone guy
- Swag
- Could probably learn to fly planes if he wanted to

Pleky-like:
- Coache's favorite
- Plays with wingers with same offensive production as Tom Pyatt and Tom Kostopoulos
- Again, not big but not a handicapped by it
- Good smart active stick
- Anticipation
- Can be soft at times
- Rarely gets hit (lil' girl)
- Decent on faceoffs (in a few years maybe)
- Executes all details well
- Rarely tries to do too much
- Sportsmanship
- 2 way game (yes, especially once offensive is generated on more than 1 line)
- Swag
- Could probably pull off the goatie turtleneck look

I can't wait to see him well surrounded in a more offensive role again in a year or 2.

haha epic post. not sure i agree with everything but you make some good observations. you have earned a Like, sir

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

I always thought of him as a guy better suited to the 2nd line.

Agreed.

But you need a superstar to lead the way. I don’t think Suzuki is good enough to LEAD a team to a cup. If Nick’s your number one center, you’d better have HOF caliber players elsewhere.

Suzuki is good enough to lead a team to the Cup. But of course he will need a lot of top line and 2nd line talent to help get there.

 

[Sorinth]

I always thought of him as a guy better suited to the 2nd line.

Agreed.

But you need a superstar to lead the way. I don’t think Suzuki is good enough to LEAD a team to a cup. If Nick’s your number one center, you’d better have HOF caliber players elsewhere.

Malkin has played on the 2nd line pretty much his entire career, doesn't mean he wasn't a 1st liner. Being better suited to the 2nd line is pretty meaningless.

There is very rarely 1 player to LEAD a team to a cup, Makar won the Conn Smythe last year but he didn't LEAD his team to the cup anymore then MackInnon did. Vasilesky and Hedman won the years before and each time there were several players who were worthy of it.

EDIT: Also why are you claiming he's not a legit 1st liner but then using arguments about needing a superstar? Those two labels are not interchangeable.

 

[Rapala]

Malkin has played on the 2nd line pretty much his entire career, doesn't mean he wasn't a 1st liner. Being better suited to the 2nd line is pretty meaningless.

There is very rarely 1 player to LEAD a team to a cup, Makar won the Conn Smythe last year but he didn't LEAD his team to the cup anymore then MackInnon did. Vasilesky and Hedman won the years before and each time there were several players who were worthy of it.

EDIT: Also why are you claiming he's not a legit 1st liner but then using arguments about needing a superstar? Those two labels are not interchangeable.

Both Crosby and Malkin ended up being legit superstars. I know we crave badly for one in this market but unless anyone thinks one of our current lads can crack 100 pts. We don't currently have a superstar on this team. I think that is a fair bar and hopefully we can draft a player worthy of that status.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Malkin has played on the 2nd line pretty much his entire career, doesn't mean he wasn't a 1st liner.

Nobody would disagree. But many, many people would disagree with Koivu being a first.

Being better suited to the 2nd line is pretty meaningless.

???

How so? If you’ve got a shitty first line center who’s better suited to the second line, then it makes sense to say it. Just as it makes sense to say the the Pens had two first line centers.

There is very rarely 1 player to LEAD a team to a cup, Makar won the Conn Smythe last year but he didn't LEAD his team to the cup anymore then MackInnon did. Vasilesky and Hedman won the years before and each time there were several players who were worthy of it.

Again, nobody will disagree that it takes a team to win. I’ve argued that for years.

But that doesn’t mean that a team’s best players don’t lead the way. Makar did, OV did, Crosby did etc…

EDIT: Also why are you claiming he's not a legit 1st liner but then using arguments about needing a superstar? Those two labels are not interchangeable.

I think we’re going to need to add at least one other player significantly better than him if we’re going to win anything. We will need superstars and he’s not it.

 

[Sorinth]

Nobody would disagree. But many, many people would disagree with Koivu being a first.

???

How so? If you’ve got a shitty first line center who’s better suited to the second line, then it makes sense to say it. Just as it makes sense to say the the Pens had two first line centers.

It's meaningless because every single NHL player is better suited for a lower line/pairing then what they actually are. If anything saying someone would be a great 2nd liner on a contender almost by definition means they are a 1st liner because contenders often have 1st liners on their 2nd line.

Again, nobody will disagree that it takes a team to win. I’ve argued that for years.

But that doesn’t mean that a team’s best players don’t lead the way. Makar did, OV did, Crosby did etc…

I think we’re going to need to add at least one other player significantly better than him if we’re going to win anything. We will need superstars and he’s not it.

Of course we will need to add players at or better then Suzuki if we are going to win anything, we basically have 2 high end players and a bunch of hope. But to say we absolutetly need a significantly better center is false. Suzuki has matched up well against the superstar centers in the playoffs, we'll need someone just as good on the 2nd line because contenders also have great 2nd lines but we can absolutely be a contender with Suzuki as our #1 center.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

On about how great you think Caufield is. The reality is Nick Suzuki is our best player and will remain so until someone dislodges him from that spot. Caufield hasn't come close to doing that.

He hasn’t really had the opportunity to do it.

But in the stretch from when MSL took over to when he was taken from the lineup, CC was indeed our best player.

Now if he can just stay healthy…

As for being a true number one center the answer is simple, on this team at this time he is.

“On this team he is”… of course. But how many teams would be be the first line center on? It’s another Koivu situation.

Once again someone will have to dislodge him. We are a couple of years away from that at least. I find it strange suggesting Caufield is top line material while Suzuki isn't. Particularly when we consider the duties tasked to each of these players.

CC was pacing for close to 50 goals before getting hurt. He’d be a first liner on most teams. Suzuki would not.

That’s what I mean by first line player.

Why does this matter? It matters because I think we have to have the mentality right now that the number one center slot is still something we need to fill. We can’t keep going into matches being disadvantaged up front. Unless we get a guy just as good as Suzuki on the 2nd it’s going to be an uphill battle. And even then…

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

To me yes he's a legit 1st liner without question, but odds are he isn't a superstar 1st liner.

That said he certainly has the potential, we saw in the playoffs that he could step up and be as good as the other teams superstars so it's more a question of consistency in the regular season. When your team is already eliminated from the playoffs by November it's got to be hard mentally to remain at peak motivation/play. But it's also possible he'll never be able to have that level of consistency during the regular season which if he can bring it during the playoffs doesn't really bother me.

He might have another gear. I hope so. He’ll have CC to help and that’s good. But he needs to be more consistent.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Nobody would disagree. But many, many people would disagree with Koivu being a first.

???

How so? If you’ve got a shitty first line center who’s better suited to the second line, then it makes sense to say it. Just as it makes sense to say the the Pens had two first line centers.

Again, nobody will disagree that it takes a team to win. I’ve argued that for years.

But that doesn’t mean that a team’s best players don’t lead the way. Makar did, OV did, Crosby did etc…

I think we’re going to need to add at least one other player significantly better than him if we’re going to win anything. We will need superstars and he’s not it.

I have three guys at $7.875M if Dubois is acquired.

We then need two guys at $9-10M, though if we luck out with an ELC for a year or two on a Fantilli or someone able to play the top half 1C role, and if Guhle can be the 1D at least as good as Matheson, then maybe we have spare cap space while we suffer through the Armia and Gallagher years.