Player Discussion Nick Suzuki Part 11

[Lafleurs Guy]

Canadiens' Suzuki making it undeniable he's a bona fide No. 1 centre

Nick Suzuki’s play in Tuesday’s game only reinforced how undeniable it’s become that he’s the first No. 1 centre the Canadiens have had in over two decades.

www.sportsnet.ca

I would agree with this now. And assuming his play stays the same or improves next year, you’ll know he’s a number one but the question of “Is Suzuki A Number One?” which has been asked by so many in the media this year will no longer be asked. Awesome year. He’s been way better than I thought he’d be.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Only drafted Habs player since 2001 to hit 70 points was Plekanec. Putrid drafting has really hurt this organization and if they did draft a decent player they had no clue how to develop them.

I think that will not be the case going forward. We’ve got four guys that I think will crack it - including Suzuki who’s done it this year - and another top pick in the way.

Lane Hutson will only help.

 

[rik schau]

I don't ask that question about a single player but about a team in general.
Suzuki would already be at 80 points if the team HIMSELF included could have buried 1/3 more of their opportunities.
Suzuki's greatest offensive attribute will always remain to be his ability to find THE open man and that wasn't always Caufield.
Let's not even discuss the PP.

Ideally you would want a healthy team from the start and go form there and see what its sum would be and maneuver about from there.

 

[Frankenheimer]

I would too but that’s not a knock on Kovalev (wing vs D - a Norris winner on top).

I’ll take « 80pts without trying » (bs) vs the 30years of guys who look like they care and try really hard we keep paying to watch.

Actually I find Suzuki often looks so even tempered it looks like he tuned out when he’s in a slump - which is not the case at all.

Its easily forgotten how frustrating it was to watch Kovalev. If he wasnt so moody, he'd be a hall of famer. That said, you dont know what you have until its gone.

 

[danisonfire]

Timmins is pretty good outside the MB era. Before MB it’s a good record. After him is better. But from 2008 to 2019 it’s a black hole.

And yep, agree that it’s great for Suzuki to get to 70 but absolutely pathetic that he’s only the third to do it in 15 years.

Timmins started out really good and the second MB came in as gm it went straight off a cliff. Really makes you wonder how much control he was welding over the draft. Either that or he just lagged behind the times.

 

[Rapala]

Its easily forgotten how frustrating it was to watch Kovalev. If he wasnt so moody, he'd be a hall of famer. That said, you dont know what you have until its gone.

I'm still trying to understand how Kovalev got introduced into this thread.
I get Koivu and I get Pleks but apples to oranges doesn't even start to describe the differences between Suzuki and Kovalev.
If Suzuki had Kovalev's dangle he would never be a Hab and if Kovalev had Suzuki's drive he would never have become a Hab.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Timmins started out really good and the second MB came in as gm it went straight off a cliff. Really makes you wonder how much control he was welding over the draft. Either that or he just lagged behind the times.

I posted his record in another thread. The dropoff when MB comes onboard is astounding. Then in the later years (developed by MSL) we start seeing picks pan out again. It's crazy.

I don’t want this to hijack this thread though. This topic can be continued in the Timmins thread.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I'm still trying to understand how Kovalev got introduced into this thread.
I get Koivu and I get Pleks but apples to oranges doesn't even start to describe the differences between Suzuki and Kovalev.
If Suzuki had Kovalev's dangle he would never be a Hab and if Kovalev had Suzuki's drive he would never have become a Hab.

Kovalev comes up if you’re going to compare Suzuki and today’s groups vs the past. It’s a sad sack group but Kovalev is definitely among the best.

Totally agree. Frustrating player and I judge him for what he was not what he could’ve been. It’s not like he was derailed by injury. He just didn’t put in the effort. If he did, he could’ve been Guy Lafleur like. I would take Suzuki over him and probably several more coming up will pass him as well.

 

[SlafySZN]

@Redux91 my opinion haven’t changed on the comment you just liked lol

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

Price
Subban
Markov
Koivu
Max
Weber
Kovalev
Plekanec
Petry

Not exactly murderers row. Price is a HOFer. Subban was a HOF talent who we traded away. Weber is a HOFer who we got at the end. The others range from really good to mediocre.

I think the next group will be significantly better. I don’t know that any will be as good as Price (arguably the best player in the world at one time) but there are lots of guys who can be at least up around him and Subban in that list. Suzuki has been the best so far but he’s also the oldest. Right now I’d say he’s similar to Plekanec but with a much better shot. I’d put him above Plek as I don’t think he was ever as good as Nick is now. Suzuki will obviously climb that list as he continues as will others. I’d also be okay with him above Kovalev. Better two way game and more steady.

I put Koivu 2nd to Price. Tempted to put him over Price honestly.

Markov was kind of kaka in the playoffs. Subban's gained weight was one thing (he still played well enough) but he was a bit of a sideshow. It should be clearer now in hindsight to the people who wanted Bergevin dead for the trade. Price was unreal but his downs were pretty rough and taking us to the cleaners like he did when he was injured so often sours me on him a little.

Koivu was a bulldog and always brought it come spring which is truly the mark of a great player and my most valued criterion for judging a player.

 

[Redux91]

@Redux91 my opinion haven’t changed on the comment you just liked lol

You STILL don't consider him a 1C..?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I put Koivu 2nd to Price. Tempted to put him over Price honestly.

Markov was kind of kaka in the playoffs. Subban's gained weight was one thing (he still played well enough) but he was a bit of a sideshow. It should be clearer now in hindsight to the people who wanted Bergevin dead for the trade. Price was unreal but his downs were pretty rough and taking us to the cleaners like he did when he was injured so often sours me on him a little.

Koivu was a bulldog and always brought it come spring which is truly the mark of a great player and my most valued criterion for judging a player.

Price and Subban were legit superstars with Price having a HOF career. They’re the only two players we’ve had since Roy who we can say that about. And only Price will make the HOF.

I don’t know if we have anyone coming up who will get there but I’m optimistic.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

You STILL don't consider him a 1C..?

If we start seeing “Is Suzuki a number one center” next year, then we’ll know he’s going the wrong way.

 

[Habs]

god what if we had received Bergy's first choice, Glass?

 

[Rapala]

One thing I've noticed about Suzuki and his goal scoring since the break.
Aside from the fact that he's using his shot as a weapon he's scoring more of those "tighter in" hanging around the net type of goals.
If he's going to start adding deflections to his repertoire that can be huge for his totals. Two games in a row he's found the back of the net with a deflected puck. The fact that the first one didn't count doesn't mean anything I just don't remember that skill being listed as one in his arsenal.
We've only ever heard of Gallagher having that skill.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

god what if we had received Bergy's first choice, Glass?

that was everybody's first choice and everybody was pissed when the story was at first that he actually targeted Suzuki

 

[SlafySZN]

You STILL don't consider him a 1C..?

I think this year was definitely his most consistent year and it was nice to see. You also have to take into consideration that he won’t shoot 30% forever so the production will dip a little, compared to his last 25 games. Before that his production was similar to last year, which is still pretty good and i was appreciating his play more than i did last year.

Maybe i see a first line center different than some here.

 

[Redux91]

I think this year was definitely his most consistent year and it was nice to see. You also have to take into consideration that he won’t shoot 30% forever so the production will dip a little, compared to his last 25 games. Before that his production was similar to last year, which is still pretty good and i was appreciating his play more than i did last year.

Maybe i see a first line center different than some here.

This 30% shooting stuff you guys are on about is hilarious tho

You guys make it sound like he's at 30% for the year, which he is not
He's at 18%, which means it fluctuates 'over the course of the year'

There are 0% stretches, 40% stretches, 10% stretches, 20% stretches, and it all crunches together to give you the actual number on the year
"He's been shooting 30% since so and so, and he won't forever"
Everyone knows this..
Even the 50 goal scorers this year don't live in '30% shooting' for the year but you can damn well find stretches where they've been hitting at 30%+ clips at certain points of the year

That's why it's been so pointless reading all this 'he's lucky he's shooting 30%' stuff, its just a cop out for his detractors sorry

 

[Mrb1p]

I think this year was definitely his most consistent year and it was nice to see. You also have to take into consideration that he won’t shoot 30% forever so the production will dip a little, compared to his last 25 games. Before that his production was similar to last year, which is still pretty good and i was appreciating his play more than i did last year.

Maybe i see a first line center different than some here.

Hes 14th in C scoring, he brings elite defense and he has the worst support out of everyone /Crosby.

You definition of a 1C is wrong, not everyone elses.

He doesnt have 30%, he has 18%, by the way. His shooting % is comparable to Drai and AM and much lower than Point and Reinhart, and you know what? He hangs with those guys shooting wise. Thats why his shooting % is high, not because of dumb luck. Check the goals hes scored, hes just a lethal shooter.

Furthermore, his 5 on 5 shooting percentage isnt even high at 8.8%, his PDO and Secondary assists are also low. None of that indicates luck induced performance or career year.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

This 30% shooting stuff you guys are on about is hilarious tho

You guys make it sound like he's at 30% for the year, which he is not
He's at 18%, which means it fluctuates 'over the course of the year'

As far as I know, I’m the only other guy to bring up his shooting percentage. And I specifically said it’s no big deal because of what you said here, over the course of the year it’s 18 percent. Maybe a little high but nothing crazy.

He won’t be as hot as he’s been in the second half but 18 percent (or close to it) is repeatable next year.

As I’ve been saying for a long time now, he needs to shoot more. I saw him on the wing in Guelph and his shot was lethal. He racked up goals. I think him being a center he’s more focused on playmaking but honestly his shot’s awesome and he should use it more.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Price
Subban
Markov
Koivu
Max
Weber
Kovalev
Plekanec
Petry

Not exactly murderers row. Price is a HOFer. Subban was a HOF talent who we traded away. Weber is a HOFer who we got at the end. The others range from really good to mediocre.

I think the next group will be significantly better. I don’t know that any will be as good as Price (arguably the best player in the world at one time) but there are lots of guys who can be at least up around him and Subban in that list. Suzuki has been the best so far but he’s also the oldest. Right now I’d say he’s similar to Plekanec but with a much better shot. I’d put him above Plek as I don’t think he was ever as good as Nick is now. Suzuki will obviously climb that list as he continues as will others. I’d also be okay with him above Kovalev. Better two way game and more steady.

Marky is the most underrated in that list imo. On a good team he’s probably a Norris candidate a few years. Our record with him in the lineup vs without him is no coincidence, very cerebral game. I loved Subban, but imo peak Markov was a better player.

 

[McGuires Corndog]

When you factor in his defensive game, he’s absolutely a #1 centre.

He has the ability to drive the play at either end of the ice, while Plekanec was a solid producer and good defensively as well he was much more timid and passive on the ice - not a play driver in the least.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Marky is the most underrated in that list imo. On a good team he’s probably a Norris candidate a few years. Our record with him in the lineup vs without him is no coincidence, very cerebral game. I loved Subban, but imo peak Markov was a better player.

That’s fine.

I don’t agree but I think you’re right on him being in bad clubs. ALL these guys fell victim to that unfortunately.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Suzuki is 16th in points among centers, and there are 5 players above him with higher shooting percentages.

Even if you expect Suzuki's shooting percentage to go down, you can definitely expect his assist totals to go up because his elite goalscorer linemate Cole Caufield isn't going to continue shooting at 7.6%.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Suzuki is 16th in points among centers, and there are 5 players above him with higher shooting percentages.

View attachment 845817

Even if you expect Suzuki's shooting percentage to go down, you can definitely expect his assist totals to go up because his elite goalscorer linemate Cole Caufield isn't going to continue shooting at 7.6%.

18 percent is (or close to it) is repeatable for a guy with a shot like Suzuki’s. The 33 percent that he’s shot at since late January is not.

He may have had some puck luck in the second half but overall it’s evened out. I don’t think it’s a big deal, just the ebb and flow of a season.

As for CC, that doesn’t seem repeatable. But it’s crazy that it’s lasted a full year. So they obviously have something to address there, it can’t all just be luck. Very likely the shoulder is a factor combined with bad luck. That is an insanely low number for someone with his talent.