TSN: Nick Robertson requests trade from Toronto

[TheKrebsCycle]

I would give you Bords.

How’s he progressing ?

 

[TimeZone]

Sturm is 60% in the faceoff circle and an ace penalty killer. Robertson isn't skilled enough to be a top six forward or big enough to be a bottom six forward. You'd be lucky to get Sturm for him.

The Leafs have enough forwards who can't score, pass.

 

[ChompChomp]

How’s he progressing ?

In 22-23, spent most of the year in AHL, looked good there. 8 games that year in the NHL, not so great.

In 23-24, IIRC his first NHL stint that year was not good, so he went back to down to the AHL, and then came back towards the tail end of the year and was much better and scoring goals. He's still a project, but the upside potential is still there. There's a split in the fanbase on people feel about Bords. Half the fanbase is ready to dump him, the other half thinks he'll still become a regular NHLer.

 

[JoeThorntonsRooster]

The guy who was a healthy scratch most of the season?

He played 63 out of 82 games. Do you not know what “most” means, or do you not even pay attention to your own team?

 

[BKarchitect]

Lol. The idea that the Maple Leafs, who are, ostensibly, trying to win - would thumb their noses at Nico Sturm for Robertson but then turn around and express interest in Thomas Bordeleau tells you all you need to know about how some fans are "evaluating" players.

 

[Suntouchable13]

He played 63 out of 82 games. Do you not know what “most” means, or do you not even pay attention to your own team?

Some Leafs fans are so delusional, man. It's very hard being a fan of them right now. I hate it. They overrate the hell out of Robertson, and think the team is a contender just because they added Tanev and OEL.

 

[HockeyVirus]

He played 63 out of 82 games. Do you not know what “most” means, or do you not even pay attention to your own team?

And was scratched when it mattered

Some Leafs fans are so delusional, man. It's very hard being a fan of them right now. I hate it. They overrate the hell out of Robertson, and think the team is a contender just because they added Tanev and OEL.

And then you have fans who think they are enlightened because they crap all over the team every chance they get

 

[Fogelhund]

Hopefully the ducks are kickin on him, we need guys that can put puck in net.

Vatrano might be gone after this season, prob worth a flier on robertson

It would have to be Timmins + Robertson for Vatrano @50% to make the cap work....

 

[TurgPavs]

It would have to be Timmins + Robertson for Vatrano @50% to make the cap work....

Am I missing something on this?
Vatrano coming off a 37 goal season, at 50% retained, for Timmins and Robertson?

I just dont see Robertson and Tmmins having that amount of value to trade straight up for Vatrano, let alone the Ducks retaining half of the cap.
Timmins is simply a cap dump in this deal.
Robertson has 87 NHL games in 4 seasons, and is going to be 23 when the season starts.

Unless Toronto is adding a few picks or a prospect like Niemala or Minten, I cant see this as a deal Anaheim would make.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

It would have to be Timmins + Robertson for Vatrano @50% to make the cap work....

I really don’t think that is close specially with retention

 

[Fogelhund]

I really don’t think that is close specially with retention

That's fair... it was your suggestion to send Vatrano... Leafs just simply can't do the deal otherwise.... which I'm fine with, as I'd like to keep Robertson to be honest. If used properly he should be a 20-25 goal guy as soon as this season. I was just attempting to show how it would have to work, on a basis of Vatrano and Robertson.

Am I missing something on this?
Vatrano coming off a 37 goal season, at 50% retained, for Timmins and Robertson?

I just dont see Robertson and Tmmins having that amount of value to trade straight up for Vatrano, let alone the Ducks retaining half of the cap.
Timmins is simply a cap dump in this deal.
Robertson has 87 NHL games in 4 seasons, and is going to be 23 when the season starts.

Unless Toronto is adding a few picks or a prospect like Niemala or Minten, I cant see this as a deal Anaheim would make.

I get it... the Vatrano for Robertson suggestion was from a Ducks fan... as mentioned, I was showing how that would have to be structured to work for the Leafs cap... fair enough if it doesn't. Leafs would choose to pass on the deal, and keep Robertson.

 

[FerrisRox]

Where does the idea come from that he’s soft and bad defensively?

From watching him play?

Yes, he killed penalties in Junior, but he was also soft and poor defensively then, too. He was just worth the gamble.

To be clear, you are saying he is not soft and he is not bad defensively?

 

[FerrisRox]

Basically this. His strengths show there is a valuable top 6 winger here. His flaws being his size, his defensive reads sometimes, and the fact he plays completely fearless and gets injured due to being smaller than other guys.

How is it possible you mention his flaws, list three, and somehow manage to miss what is easily his biggest obstacle to being a regular NHLer?

What holds Robertson back is his skating. You can be soft, you can be one dimensional, you can be weak without the puck, but you need to overcome by excelling in other ways. Robertson has a good shot, moves the puck well, is creative with the puck and has all the tools to be a good offensive contributor, but his skating, which is mediocre at best is a serious issue. If you're small and soft, you have to be quick to survive in the NHL.

It's not just speed, too, but also his edge-work.

I don't think this one is going to bite the Leafs in the ass. I would move on from Robertson.

 

[FerrisRox]

I have probably watched every NHL game he has ever played and he does not seem weaker than the average player.

This is impossible to believe.

 

[DougGilmour93]

Trade him to Dallas for Mavrik Bourque

Robertson for Stankoven

 

[conFABulator]

This is impossible to believe.

Really? I am sure some people have watched EVERY game he has played without my "probably" qualifier.

He has played 87 games over four seasons. I watch at least 90% of the games the Leafs play in a season. Maybe on the low end I have seen 75 of his games...that doesn't change my ability to say I have seen enough of his games to have an informed opinion.

My question for the poster was what is he basing his assesment on? He seems sure that Robertson is weak, I have not seen that. What is the basis for such a comment?

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

From watching him play?

Yes, he killed penalties in Junior, but he was also soft and poor defensively then, too. He was just worth the gamble.

To be clear, you are saying he is not soft and he is not bad defensively?

Id say he’s brittle but not soft . He’ll go in the corners and fight for the puck he’s just not very strong and as a result gets nicked up on the regular . I think he is average defensively; I additionally think his hockey iq / anticipation skills would be an asset on the pk , like it was every stop getting to the NHL . Decent stick , top level shot . He’s a full time NHL er imo . With even a modest bump in minutes I believe 20 plus goals are incredibly likely .

Really? I am sure some people have watched EVERY game he has played without my "probably" qualifier.

He has played 87 games over four seasons. I watch at least 90% of the games the Leafs play in a season. Maybe on the low end I have seen 75 of his games...that doesn't change my ability to say I have seen enough of his games to have an informed opinion.

My question for the poster was what is he basing his assesment on? He seems sure that Robertson is weak, I have not seen that. What is the basis for such a comment?

He is beaten in 1 on 1 battles fairly regularly in addition to being fairly small in stature and falls down more often than you’d like ( so maybe not the strongest on his skates ) . I say this as someone who likes the overall potential

 

[conFABulator]

He is beaten in 1 on 1 battles fairly regularly and falls down more often than you’d like ( so maybe not the strongest on his skates ) . I say this as someone who likes the overall potential

This assesment I could agree with. He has holes in his game for sure and you just identified a couple of them. If he didn't have these holes this thread wouldn't exist because he would be getting prime ice time and scoring 25 goals a year.

You were specific about real things. To say that he is "weak" seemed like someone making assumptions. Someone who saw his height and already didn't like him because he is a Leaf.

I think he has shown some good jump, some tenacity, a nose for the net, and not afraid to shoot. These are assets for sure.

 

[FerrisRox]

Really? I am sure some people have watched EVERY game he has played without my "probably" qualifier.

Your confusing what I'm saying.

I'm not saying it's impossible to believe that you've watched probably all of his NHL games.

I'm saying it's impossible to believe you've watched that much of Robertson and your take away was that he wasn't weaker than any other players.

He's obviously soft and he's clearly not strong, either on his skates or in general.

 

[Rude Dog]

Your confusing what I'm saying.

I'm not saying it's impossible to believe that you've watched probably all of his NHL games.

I'm saying it's impossible to believe you've watched that much of Robertson and your take away was that he wasn't weaker than any other players.

He's obviously soft and he's clearly not strong, either on his skates or in general.

I need a better understanding of what you consider soft. Yes he needs to get stronger and loses one on one battles but it’s not from a lack of heart or effort. That is what I consider soft. He battles for the puck every shift and does create a lot of turnovers.

 

[Stephen]

I need a better understanding of what you consider soft. Yes he needs to get stronger and loses one on one battles but it’s not from a lack of heart or effort. That is what I consider soft. He battles for the puck every shift and does create a lot of turnovers.

To me there's a buzzy-busy element to Robertson's game without the puck that looks like hard work but nothing really gets done: he looks like he's forechecking so hard, or closing on a guy but doesn't stop them making a play, seems to be hound a puck carrier all the way up the ice, struggles to get the puck out of the zone on the wall.

 

[Stephen]

He's obviously soft and he's clearly not strong, either on his skates or in general.

Problem with Robertson is I don't think he has a good grasp of the player type he's supposed to be. Sometimes it seems like he wants to be this dogged forechecking Zach Hyman, but he doesn't have the 200 pound plus frame to do any of the contact work and strength on his feet that's required. And he's not offensively efficient to be a floating Cole Caufield who can ghost in and out and get to his sniping marks.

 

[conFABulator]

Your confusing what I'm saying.

I'm not saying it's impossible to believe that you've watched probably all of his NHL games.

I'm saying it's impossible to believe you've watched that much of Robertson and your take away was that he wasn't weaker than any other players.

He's obviously soft and he's clearly not strong, either on his skates or in general.

Well, based on the specific line you quoted you can probably see where the confusion came from.

I don't think I ever said that "he wasn't weaker than any other players". I would actually say that he is weaker than a lot of other players, maybe even most. He is small.

However I have watched my share of players and prospects that were "weak" and this is not what I see here. He plays with tenacity and even a decent forecheck, however he will lose battled against big, stronger players. I believe he does this to the degree that small, young players do and not the the is somehow soft and weak. He just has to grow a bit, add some mass, and gain some physical confidence.

 

[TurgPavs]

How is it possible you mention his flaws, list three, and somehow manage to miss what is easily his biggest obstacle to being a regular NHLer?

What holds Robertson back is his skating. You can be soft, you can be one dimensional, you can be weak without the puck, but you need to overcome by excelling in other ways. Robertson has a good shot, moves the puck well, is creative with the puck and has all the tools to be a good offensive contributor, but his skating, which is mediocre at best is a serious issue. If you're small and soft, you have to be quick to survive in the NHL.

It's not just speed, too, but also his edge-work.

I don't think this one is going to bite the Leafs in the ass. I would move on from Robertson.

I tend to agree with this.
Watching Robertson play, he reminds me a lot of Ty Rattie when he was coming up thru the Blues system. Robertson is a little smaller in size, but the skating is very similar.

 

[Fogelhund]

Your confusing what I'm saying.

I'm not saying it's impossible to believe that you've watched probably all of his NHL games.

I'm saying it's impossible to believe you've watched that much of Robertson and your take away was that he wasn't weaker than any other players.

He's obviously soft and he's clearly not strong, either on his skates or in general.

He's not very big, and he's had a tendency to put himself in bad spots. Most of your conclusions were accurate two seasons ago, and early last year, but he's improved and maybe you haven't seen that progression, or changed your opinion as his play changed.

He has gotten stronger, and by the end of last year, he was using his low center of gravity to knock much bigger guys off pucks. The question is, will he continue to grow that part of his game.

Defensively, he's had a tendency to chase play... but his game is starting to get simpler and you could tell. He has an excellent read on plays, and often anticipates where the puck is going, leading to quite a few takeaways... he's actually very good at that.

He isn't soft though... he just isn't very big. He's never going to be as strong as a 6'4" 230lb guy... but he is pretty strong for someone his size. He does a tremendous amount of power work offseason, and it shows.

The big thing... he does have an incredible shot release. He's going to be a 20-25 goal scorer once used properly.