TSN: Nick Robertson requests trade from Toronto

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Estimated_Prophet

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Nobody is giving up anything of value for an undersized, 23 year old one dimensional winger who has not proven that he can actually hold down a job in the NHL yet. He is most likely a player that ekes out a career playing top/middle six minutes on crappy teams as he is not what a contending team is looking for.
 

Pablo El Perro

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Always liked the kid and thought this would be a breakout year for him. Must not like something.
 

conFABulator

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It will never happen. To be clear, this is not a controversial comment.
What's not controversial? That a 22 year old with an incredible goal scoring pedigree in the OHL will never increase his production by 25% as he is given more opportunity?

If Robertson were traded to a weaker team where he got more opportunity he could score 25 goals NEXT season.

He didn't play 82 games, he didn't get lots of ice time when he did play, and he did not get practically any PP time.

He was however 27th in the NHL for ES/G60. This put him ahead of Eichel, Nylander, Kucharov, and Reinhart to name a few.

He didn't get more ice because he had holes in his defensive game and he was behind Marner, Nylander, Bertuzzi, Domi, Knies McMann on the depth and chart. Not to mention being behind Matthews, Tavares, Nylander and Marner on the PP.
 

WTFMAN99

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Yes you are correct on all accounts, Pionk I like as a 3rd pairing PP specialist type of guy. This last year was not a good one for him defensively. I like his grit, hits at times, skating and puck movement......but he is not the greatest defensively/phyiscal battles in front of the net or corners due to his size.

Coaches all love Lafallo, hard worker, good defensively, scores in clutch moments often.....but a bit higher cap hit for his production then we like. Due to hit cap, yes it would be interesting to potentially trade him and bring in more two way production/points.

Josh & Demelo are magic together, amazing pairing and just work well together. 100% they will be paired together.

I read a lot of negative comments on Nick R mostly from Leafs fans, not sure how real they are or just sour grapes over his trade demand. When I've seen him play he's been "ok", not great but not terrible, I admit I wasn't ever analyzing his game during those games I watched him in.

We didn't give him any PP time, he has a good shot, not big enough to win battles etc, if you deploy him properly, you'll get value, maybe 40-50 pts. Needs a playmaker centre, JT/Matthews not the best passers.
 

Fatass

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I still think Nick scores 30.
If you get him for a 2nd or later, it’s a steal. He has a ton to prove on the next team

I hope this is only smoke and mirrors to get a top6 spot with us. But I have no idea if that’s a good intro to Berube, by requesting a trade.
Maybe Robertson, to have an nhl career, needs to accept he’s a bottom six energy guy who can check and PK?
 

Uncle Scrooge

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There should be prime opportunity in the Leafs top 9 this year. They don't even have a full group of six top 9 wingers to compete against.

Suck it up, stay healthy, play well and re-visit this next summer.
 

bert

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Nobody is giving up anything of value for an undersized, 23 year old one dimensional winger who has not proven that he can actually hold down a job in the NHL yet. He is most likely a player that ekes out a career playing top/middle six minutes on crappy teams as he is not what a contending team is looking for.
Bingo. Easiest asset to aquire. Sprong and Kubalik are UFA's right now and can be had for free. Teams just don't give up value for these types of players.

It's probably how Buffalo saw Savoie if people wonder why they made that trade. They could he wrong but if he is then it's a good deal. Two way centers with good motors that can play up and down the lineup and on the wing have real value. Undersized one dimensional skill wingers do not.
 

conFABulator

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Maybe Robertson, to have an nhl career, needs to accept he’s a bottom six energy guy who can check and PK?
He doesn't do those things though. He cannot accept something he is not..he is a top six sniper. He is not strong defensively, is small-ish, and definitely not a PKer.

He actually can fit on a team like the Leafs pretty well this year. He can be the third man on line with Matthews and Marner or Domi, or with Nylander and Tavares. He actually worked pretty well with McMann and Tavares this year. That would be a solid third line for the Leafs and he would get opportunity and minutes. It would mean one of Domi, Nylander or Marner is our 2C.

Anyway, I think Robertson's best chance for ice time with the Leafs is this year. I hope we don't trade him for nothing.
 
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WhatTheDuck

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He doesn't do those things though. He cannot accept something he is not..he is a top six sniper. He is not strong defensively, is small-ish, and definitely not a PKer.

He actually can fit on a team like the Leafs pretty well this year. He can be the third man on line with Matthews and Marner or Domi, or with Nylander and Tavares. He actually worked pretty well with McMann and Tavares this year. That would be a solid third line for the Leafs and he would get opportunity and minutes. It would mean one of Domi, Nylander or Marner is our 2C.

Anyway, I think Robertson's best chance for ice time with the Leafs is this year. I hope we don't trade him for nothing.

I think you just have to give a young player more time before you make definitive calls on what they are defensively. If you ask an NHL coach, no young players are good defensively (or very very few and they are geniuses like Barkov). It takes about 200+ games before really strong defensive ability starts to show through in the league in most cases.

Robertson has only played a hair more than a season's worth of games. I think in most cases, you are well into their third full season before defensive chops will really start to shine through. When I watch Robertson, he looks like someone who plays with pace and urgency, I would have a hard time not expecting him to improve defensively with more experience and just getting physically stronger into his mid 20s. I don't think we have to force ourselves to label him for the rest of his career based on what was essentially his rookie season. There are some positive signs there that he can be a sort of pesky, energetic middle six scorer like a Vatrano type. If you can score 20+ goals and bring energy while being passable defensively, that will still make you more coveted than the Sprongs of the world who are shooters and nothing else.
 

TheKrebsCycle

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He doesn't do those things though. He cannot accept something he is not..he is a top six sniper. He is not strong defensively, is small-ish, and definitely not a PKer.

He actually can fit on a team like the Leafs pretty well this year. He can be the third man on line with Matthews and Marner or Domi, or with Nylander and Tavares. He actually worked pretty well with McMann and Tavares this year. That would be a solid third line for the Leafs and he would get opportunity and minutes. It would mean one of Domi, Nylander or Marner is our 2C.

Anyway, I think Robertson's best chance for ice time with the Leafs is this year. I hope we don't trade him for nothing.
Where does the idea come from that he’s soft and bad defensively? He’s been used extensively on the pk both in junior( think he had something dumb like 12 shorties in his last year in junior ) and the minors. His skating is his main draw back ; at least to me . Minors to NHL doesn’t always translate but the ability in general is there imo
 
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HockeyVirus

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Nothing player?

Last year he was 8th in 5v5 goals/60 among LWs and 12th in 5v5 points/60, he produced like a true first line player in limited minutes. He was ahead of other top LWs like Kaprizov, Matthew Tkachuk, Kyle Connor, Matt Boldy, and his own brother in both categories, despite playing with way worse linemates than those guys (his most common linemates being Domi, Jarnkrok, and Holmberg).

Basically this. His strengths show there is a valuable top 6 winger here. His flaws being his size, his defensive reads sometimes, and the fact he plays completely fearless and gets injured due to being smaller than other guys.

He's a project, but one who has shown a team willing to give him some minutes and rope are likely going to get themselves a top 6 LW.

I personally hope he is convinced to stay and get more minutes and raise his value and then if he is still unhappy can be dealt next offseason for more than just a 2nd
 
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conFABulator

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I think you just have to give a young player more time before you make definitive calls on what they are defensively. If you ask an NHL coach, no young players are good defensively (or very very few and they are geniuses like Barkov). It takes about 200+ games before really strong defensive ability starts to show through in the league in most cases.

Robertson has only played a hair more than a season's worth of games. I think in most cases, you are well into their third full season before defensive chops will really start to shine through. When I watch Robertson, he looks like someone who plays with pace and urgency, I would have a hard time not expecting him to improve defensively with more experience and just getting physically stronger into his mid 20s. I don't think we have to force ourselves to label him for the rest of his career based on what was essentially his rookie season. There are some positive signs there that he can be a sort of pesky, energetic middle six scorer like a Vatrano type. If you can score 20+ goals and bring energy while being passable defensively, that will still make you more coveted than the Sprongs of the world who are shooters and nothing else.
I get all that and that players can grow and develop. I don't think the timeline and circumstances work for Robertson to do that in Toronto.

The Leafs are in a win now window. Everyone needs to be contributing and not learning on the job. His Marlie days are done. If he is going to be a Leaf it is going to be as a guy who puts the puck in the net. If he can round out his game while he is a scorer then all the better.

The best case would be figure out what we have to add to him to get a younger prospect that doesn't have waiver issues. Him + Quillan + 2nd for McGroarty? We can't give him away but trading him for value that lines up timing-wise would be ideal.

Then we sign Alex Nylander and hope he can pot 20 goals on league minimum salary while we wait for McGroarty and other prospects to develop.

Where does the idea come from that he’s soft and bad defensively? He’s been used extensively on the pk both in junior( think he had something dumb like 12 shorties in his last year in junior ) and the minors. His skating is his main draw back ; at least to me . Minors to NHL doesn’t always translate but the ability in general is there imo
Maybe Berube will see him and use him differently than Keefe did. He did not PK for us at all, and we needed PKers.
 

WhatTheDuck

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I get all that and that players can grow and develop. I don't think the timeline and circumstances work for Robertson to do that in Toronto.

The Leafs are in a win now window. Everyone needs to be contributing and not learning on the job. His Marlie days are done. If he is going to be a Leaf it is going to be as a guy who puts the puck in the net. If he can round out his game while he is a scorer then all the better.

The best case would be figure out what we have to add to him to get a younger prospect that doesn't have waiver issues. Him + Quillan + 2nd for McGroarty? We can't give him away but trading him for value that lines up timing-wise would be ideal.

Then we sign Alex Nylander and hope he can pot 20 goals on league minimum salary while we wait for McGroarty and other prospects to develop.


Maybe Berube will see him and use him differently than Keefe did. He did not PK for us at all, and we needed PKers.

Yeah that makes perfect sense to me. The best fit for this player is not a team that is all in right now. There are teams out there that can give him middle six ice time and some runway to develop. The Leafs would be better served using the roster spot on a more proven, bigger body who can compliment their core right now.
 
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TS Quint

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What's not controversial? That a 22 year old with an incredible goal scoring pedigree in the OHL will never increase his production by 25% as he is given more opportunity?

If Robertson were traded to a weaker team where he got more opportunity he could score 25 goals NEXT season.

He didn't play 82 games, he didn't get lots of ice time when he did play, and he did not get practically any PP time.

He was however 27th in the NHL for ES/G60. This put him ahead of Eichel, Nylander, Kucharov, and Reinhart to name a few.

He didn't get more ice because he had holes in his defensive game and he was behind Marner, Nylander, Bertuzzi, Domi, Knies McMann on the depth and chart. Not to mention being behind Matthews, Tavares, Nylander and Marner on the PP.
With the way he skates with his head down this little guy might never play a full season. Keep holding on to those OHL stats like they mean anything to a 22 year old.

He didn’t get ice time because he didn’t deserve it. He barely deserved the time he got.

You are now argueing he’s in the conversation with guys like Eichel, Nylander, Kucharov (sic), Reinhart, or even better than those guys. Thanks for proving what a useless stat p/g/60 is for low TOI players.

“Holes in his defensive game”. To put it mildly lol. Don’t forget the holes in his offensive game too. And he is as weak as a kitten.
 
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thegazelle

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Can't say this trend in sports of athletes demanding trades is something I can get behind. What happened with just toughing it out with your team, through thick and thin, and letting one's play dictate the opportunities they get, allowing their contributions to determine how the team manages them.

True, a bad coach and management can underutilize players, but it just seems to be a bit of an entitled mentality for players to request or even demand trades. Berube may recognize his value. The fact that the Leafs haven't yet traded him shows they see some value here.
 

BonMorrison

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Can't say this trend in sports of athletes demanding trades is something I can get behind. What happened with just toughing it out with your team, through thick and thin, and letting one's play dictate the opportunities they get, allowing their contributions to determine how the team manages them.

True, a bad coach and management can underutilize players, but it just seems to be a bit of an entitled mentality for players to request or even demand trades. Berube may recognize his value. The fact that the Leafs haven't yet traded him shows they see some value here.
Trend??? This has been happening for decades.
 

Community

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Can't say this trend in sports of athletes demanding trades is something I can get behind. What happened with just toughing it out with your team, through thick and thin, and letting one's play dictate the opportunities they get, allowing their contributions to determine how the team manages them. True, a bad coach and management can underutilize players, but it just seems to be a bit of an entitled mentality for players to request or even demand trades.

This is something that transcends just the sporting world and likely revolves around two broad things:

1. In a lot of jobs, it's currently much easier to move forward in your career my switching companies. For Robertson, he probably thinks he hasn't been treated fair yet and would get a better opportunity elsewhere to prove he is a quality NHL calibre player.

2. More people realizing that employers care less about their employees than in the past (typically due to more large companies and less small bussineses). Can you really blame somebody for not feeling like their employers well being is more important than their own when they feel like they are undervalued/misused?


I don't blame Robertson for demanding a trade request given his sporadic usage the last 2 years and quality underlying numbers. Given how RFA contracts work it's up to the Leafs to figure out how to keep him and provide motivation/growth opportunities if they see him as part of their group moving forward.


Edit: To add, this is their job and they typically have less than 20 years to make their money before they see a dramatic decrease in their pay in any post-NHL careers. If you were limited to 20 years and you felt like your company's usage of yourself was limiting your earning potential, would you just "tough it out"?

I know most of us dream of a NHL minimum contract, but you can't blame fringe NHLers for doing whatever puts them in a better situation and gives them a chance for a longer/better contract given everybody else at their company is equally or better paid.
 

Sidney the Kidney

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I still think Nick scores 30.
If you get him for a 2nd or later, it’s a steal. He has a ton to prove on the next team

I hope this is only smoke and mirrors to get a top6 spot with us. But I have no idea if that’s a good intro to Berube, by requesting a trade.
Teams would be crazy to give up a 2nd for someone when they could simply sign the Sprongs/Kubaliks of the world for free (ie. free agency). They're the same type of player (good shooter with 20+ goal potential), but with massive warts in their game (defensive/away from the puck stuff).

Having said that, Dubas probably gives up a 1st. But other than that, I highly doubt you get that kind of value for him.
 
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thegazelle

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This is something that transcends just the sporting world and likely revolves around two broad things:

1. In a lot of jobs, it's currently much easier to move forward in your career my switching companies. For Robertson, he probably thinks he hasn't been treated fair yet and would get a better opportunity elsewhere to prove he is a quality NHL calibre player.

2. More people realizing that employers care less about their employees than in the past (typically due to more large companies and less small bussineses). Can you really blame somebody for not feeling like their employers well being is more important than their own when they feel like they are undervalued/misused?


I don't blame Robertson for demanding a trade request given his sporadic usage the last 2 years and quality underlying numbers. Given how RFA contracts work it's up to the Leafs to figure out how to keep him and provide motivation/growth opportunities if they see him as part of their group moving forward.


Edit: To add, this is their job and they typically have less than 20 years to make their money before they see a dramatic decrease in their pay in any post-NHL careers. If you were limited to 20 years and you felt like your company's usage of yourself was limiting your earning potential, would you just "tough it out"?

I know most of us dream of a NHL minimum contract, but you can't blame fringe NHLers for doing whatever puts them in a better situation and gives them a chance for a longer/better contract given everybody else at their company is equally or better paid.
Very fair points, and perhaps it is an idealistic perspective I have, considering the amount of players I watched growing up that stayed with one team through good and bad. It does seem that in the last number of years or so, in all sports, this "demanding a trade" thing seems to become commonplace.

It is a very salient point you make about the dynamic of employers changing and even the employment landscape. Loyalty is something that is no longer considered a strong virtue and seemingly teams can also discard players like commodities (ie. as much as Steven Stamkos wanted to stay in TB, the team saw it purely from business terms) - so yes, I concede your point that with a limited window to earn, and changing dynamics of the marketplace, I can understand why players would consider leveraging the same opportunities.
 
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conFABulator

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With the way he skates with his head down this little guy might never play a full season. Keep holding on to those OHL stats like they mean anything to a 22 year old.

He didn’t get ice time because he didn’t deserve it. He barely deserved the time he got.

You are now argueing he’s in the conversation with guys like Eichel, Nylander, Kucharov (sic), Reinhart, or even better than those guys. Thanks for proving what a useless stat p/g/60 is for low TOI players.

“Holes in his defensive game”. To put it mildly lol. Don’t forget the holes in his offensive game too. And he is as weak as a kitten.
I am not arguing he is in the conversation with guys like Eichel and Nylander, etc. I am pointing out that statistically this is where he was last year. There is no argument there.

Why are we ignoring the OHL (and AHL) performance of a 22 year old again? He had one of the best goal scoring season in the history of the O. He then got stalled by Covid and his age and status. He has been a point a gamer in the AHL since then.

I actually pointed out that he did not deserve more ice time last year. Primarily because it is a deep Leafs team on the wing and they are in win now mode.

What are the holes in this offensive game, other than you declaring him as "weak as a kitten" for some reason?

Did he steal your bike or something m
 

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