Injury Report: Nick Foligno (Lower Body)

[JT AM da real deal]

Marner would be be my pick, potentially Nylander as well.

It's not that they're bad or not capable, but sometimes you hit a point where change is necessary and if this team hasn't won a round in 5 years with the core a change is needed. They've shuffled everything else.

With that said, they should be able to close this out on Saturday making it a non issue.

That's right call .. new GM will come in after Dubie is let go (if we lose to habs) .. and Mitch will get moved first and then likely Rielly 2nd and team will be remade into a more traditional team .. it is very obvious what is gonna occur to try to do a quick rebuild

 

[Welsh Maple Leaf]

That's right call .. new GM will come in after Dubie is let go (if we lose to habs) .. and Mitch will get moved first and then likely Rielly 2nd and team will be remade into a more traditional team .. it is very obvious what is gonna occur to try to do a quick rebuild

I wouldn’t say trading one of your best players in Marner is pretty obvious

 

[TheShape]

I have no confidence in him putting together consistent games these playoffs. Columbus pulled a fast one on us.

Waste of assets

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I wouldn’t say trading one of your best players in Marner is pretty obvious

It is very obvious as you can't rebuild to playoff success threshold required of team .. he takes up too big a CAP hit for little he brings in playoffs .. if he made 6-7M per like Willy I could see it maybe but I'd still rather have Willy as he has faster foot speed and stronger on puck which is required for playoff hockey .. sure he won't get Mitch's reg season points but they are largely irrelevant in playoffs

 

[VanW27]

You actually think that Keefe swapping Sandin back into the lineup was the reason we lost yesterday? He wasn't swapped out of the lineup because of poor play, by all accounts. It was just to give Dermott some action and he felt back end of a back to back was a good opportunity. That wasn't Keefe saying I favor Dermott now over Sandin. So there shouldn't have been much surprise to see Sandin back in. He has had a big goal for us in the series, reigniting a stagnant PP. At some point it's on the players too, and Sandin dropped the ball. If Keefe throws him back out there after last night (which he won't) you could argue it would be Keefe's fault if he has another stinker. But Dermott coming in was simply to give him some run on a back to back. Going forward obv he will be the #6 after last night, though.

He was a major factor in the 1 game loss and now the game 5 loss, I'd agree that it was fairly evident the plan was to give him a rest on B2B and get him back in but given his play I'd say that was at least a questionable decision.

Also the PP hasn't actually been any better with him, 0pp goals for during the regular season and 1SH against. 1PP goal for during the playoffs and 1SH against.

In 29:35 of PP time with the Leafs combined he has been on the ice for 1 goal for and 2 against. The PP is -1 with him on the ice, not good.

 

[Garthinater]

Not looking like a good trade at all...

 

[Cappuccino]

i don’t think that’s really fair. Mostly to Keefe as the team has looked amazing under him in the regular season. Dubas has also done a good job filling out this team.
At some point the hones is on the dam players to get it done in the playoffs. Can’t blame Dubas and Keefe for Matthews and Marner not doing jack shit.

isn’t it exactly why he is to blame? If you pay them what you pay them, you better make sure they show up when you need them.... otherwise he deserves all the blame.

 

[Captain14]

That's right call .. new GM will come in after Dubie is let go (if we lose to habs) .. and Mitch will get moved first and then likely Rielly 2nd and team will be remade into a more traditional team .. it is very obvious what is gonna occur to try to do a quick rebuild

I agree with this 100%. We will be still be good enough to qualify for the playoffs without Mitch, especially if we can get some quality players to fit the bill of a solid playoff roster.
He is in my opinion someone you can move on from to solidify your stance as a true cup contender instead of what we are now.

 

[tom leafers]

isn’t it exactly why he is to blame? If you pay them what you pay them, you better make sure they show up when you need them.... otherwise he deserves all the blame.

what they are paid is kind of a silly argument. Matthews is a perennial 40-50 goal scorer and Marner is a premier set up man. Both are consistent threats to hit 100 point seasons. No matter what team they were on, they were going to get paid. Marner of course over paid by a little, but Matthews is 100% fair value.

Them not performing in the playoffs is not managements fault. Marner needs to learn to adapt to the smaller ice and make better decisions. The amount of times hes in a prime scoring position just to piss it away is frustrating.

if they do lose this series (they wont), major changes will obviously need to be made just for the sake of changing things up. but i place the blame more on the players than i do management.

 

[Cappuccino]

what they are paid is kind of a silly argument. Matthews is a perennial 40-50 goal scorer and Marner is a premier set up man. Both are consistent threats to hit 100 point seasons. No matter what team they were on, they were going to get paid. Marner of course over paid by a little, but Matthews is 100% fair value.

Them not performing in the playoffs is not managements fault. Marner needs to learn to adapt to the smaller ice and make better decisions. The amount of times hes in a prime scoring position just to piss it away is frustrating.

You can only pay them 81.5 M, so what you pay them you cannot pay another one, so you are stuck with players like Jumbo Joe and Simmonds on the team doing basically nothing. It’s the job of the gm to create the roster, so if it won’t work, it will be also the gm to blame.

 

[hockeynorth]

Foligno needs to be in Saturday. I'll be annoyed if we paid a first rounder and he isn't, and I'm just about the Foligno boys biggest fan.

 

[saffronleaf]

I remember our 1st was laughed at when making trade proposals: "It'll be a late 1st and not a very impactful player gets drafted in the late part of the 1st round".

Then we traded for Foligno using our 1st: "I can't believe you used a 1st for Foligno!".

They should have done more due diligence on his health. Trading a 1st for an injured rental who will never play or contribute is not a great move.

 

[ToneDog]

Last night was on Keefe and only Keefe.

No changes were needed to the lineup that shutout the Canadiens 2 nights prior. Dermott played well and should have remained in the lineup.

As for Foligno, the Leafs should and will be able to win this series without him. Only way he is brought back is if there's a 7th game. If I were the Leafs I still sit him on Saturday.

He isnt a waste of an acquisition. He wasnt acquired to win a 1st round, he was acquired to win a cup. Montreal is doable without Foligno. The team and coaching needs to step up and be smarter.

Keefe was outcoached by Bergevin last night. LOL.

 

[tom leafers]

You can only pay them 81.5 M, so what you pay them you cannot pay another one, so you are stuck with players like Jumbo Joe and Simmonds on the team doing basically nothing. It’s the job of the gm to create the roster, so if it won’t work, it will be also the gm to blame.

I totally agree, but at the same time when those contracts were signed, nobody was expecting a flat cap for 2 years. Before covid, the cap was estimated to increase to about $85m.

I totally expect someone to be fired if they lose (they wont), but like i said im blaming the players more than management.

on the plus side we wont have to retain on phil kessels contract after next year

 

[ToneDog]

It is very obvious as you can't rebuild to playoff success threshold required of team .. he takes up too big a CAP hit for little he brings in playoffs .. if he made 6-7M per like Willy I could see it maybe but I'd still rather have Willy as he has faster foot speed and stronger on puck which is required for playoff hockey .. sure he won't get Mitch's reg season points but they are largely irrelevant in playoffs

Rather than trading him we could pull a Kutcherov. Say Mitch hurt his back lifting his wheelbarrow filled with money, use the $11 in cap space to sign UFAs and then bring Mitch back for the playoffs

 

[Gallagbi]

Rather than trading him we could pull a Kutcherov. Say Mitch hurt his back lifting his wheelbarrow filled with money, use the $11 in cap space to sign UFAs and then bring Mitch back for the playoffs

So we can miss out on his productive time?

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Rather than trading him we could pull a Kutcherov. Say Mitch hurt his back lifting his wheelbarrow filled with money, use the $11 in cap space to sign UFAs and then bring Mitch back for the playoffs

Issue is we might need Mitch's points in reg season .. but we need others in playoffs when it counts .. it is da opposite situation to Kuch

 

[ottomaddox]

They should have done more due diligence on his health. Trading a 1st for an injured rental who will never play or contribute is not a great move.

If the Leafs lose to MTL, and we never get to see Foligno play then you make a good point about "due diligence". I think Dubas knew the risk. He and Shanny are under extreme pressure to win. Let's revisit this topic after TOR gets eliminated.

 

[ToneDog]

Issue is we might need Mitch's points in reg season .. but we need others in playoffs when it counts .. it is da opposite situation to Kuch

Points will come from UFAs you sign using $11m cap savings.

Seriously though, with the amount of real dollars Mitch is owed, some team might give you a boatload for him. On the other hand, trading Mitch might piss off 34, the same way trading Lanny pissed of Sittler.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

They should have done more due diligence on his health. Trading a 1st for an injured rental who will never play or contribute is not a great move.

The part that really got me was when Foligno got scratched the first time and he said it was an injury he had been dealing with 'All season'...like WTF? You trade a first for a guy who has had a chronic problem to play deep into the playoffs?

I think Dubas galaxy brained himself with the veteran good guy acquisitions this year. It's one thing to do it organically...but when you are trading for players that can't contribute or are useless like Jumbo (Simmonds is kind of useless but not totally) you are over compensating a bit for your previous failings to get good solid vets by signing pretty much anyone no matter how useless they are now. Bad cycle to get into.

 

[ottomaddox]

Issue is we might need Mitch's points in reg season .. but we need others in playoffs when it counts .. it is da opposite situation to Kuch

Sorry to interrupt, but I came here to talk about Foligno.

 

[Rob Brown]

Not looking like a good trade at all...

And if the Leafs move onto the second round (and perhaps beyond), what would you say? It's far too early to say it's not a good trade when the Leafs are still in the playoffs, with a lead in the first round...

 

[ToneDog]

So we can miss out on his productive time?

If his productive time is regular season and disappears in the playoffs, what good is it? Especially if his cap hit is forcing you to surround the core with players like Jumbo, Boyd, Vesey, Engvall, Soup, Spezza, Brooks, Gally, Simmonds etc.

A team like the Bruins will feast on our bottom 6.

 

[hockeynorth]

They should have done more due diligence on his health. Trading a 1st for an injured rental who will never play or contribute is not a great move.

he got injured here, I can confirm that

 

[hockeynorth]

If his productive time is regular season and disappears in the playoffs, what good is it? Especially if his cap hit is forcing you to surround the core with players like Jumbo, Boyd, Vesey, Engvall, Soup, Spezza, Brooks, Gally, Simmonds etc.

A team like the Bruins will feast on our bottom 6.

Bruins bottom 6 is definitely no better than:

Foligno-Kerfoot-Mikheyev
Thornton/Engvall-Spezza-Simmonds/Nash