Niagara IceDogs 2023-24 Off-Season Thread

[Sam14]

Oh wow

He cleared waivers for the whole Q??? Wow.

Until the trades camp and they play a few games we really do not know what they have. As to Frolov it is an interesting trade but it looks like they added to the defence which was a sore point was it not

we will have to see how it works out.

I want to give Boudreau credit as a coach and think he would have some input

Still missing the most important point…

To make ill-advised trades to assemble a team that may or may not make the playoffs, instead of continuing with the goal of building a potential championship team is an idiotic plan!

 

[beastintheeast]

Still missing the most important point…

To make ill-advised trades to assemble a team that may or may not make the playoffs, instead of continuing with the goal of building a potential championship team is an idiotic plan!

But what ill advised trade have they made this year.

I have not missed your point; I just do not see an ill-advised trade. To me, any trade now is not ill advised

 

[Sam14]

Oh wow

He cleared waivers for the whole Q??? Wow.

Sorry i didn’t mean to tag you on that last post.

 

[three dog night]

First preseason game today in Port Hope against Peterborough

 

[Sam14]

But what ill advised trade have they made this year.

I have not missed your point; I just do not see an ill-advised trade. To me, any trade now is not ill advised

You yourself defined what an ill-advised trade was on your post here. For the IceDogs it was their highly-touted drafted eligible player Frolov. When you plus and minus that trade. Niagara traded draft eligible 2007 Frolov plus 2nd, 3rd and 3rd for 2006 Brauti.
The 2005 exchanged are a wash.

A trade that may or may help them make the playoffs, instead of continuing with the goal of building a potential championship team is an idiotic plan!

Here is what they told the fans.

After the draft, their GM explained, “the 2008s (Wassilyn, Crete) are a nice complement to our outstanding 2007 draft class (Roobroeck, Frolov, Galiyanov, Czata) and we’re excited to see their development this season”.

Following the Frolov trade, they completely flipped the script and told the fans this, “the mandate right now is to make sure we make the playoffs”.

You must see the problem here.

 

[dirty12]

You yourself defined what an ill-advised trade was on your post here. For the IceDogs it was their highly-touted drafted eligible player Frolov. When you plus and minus that trade. Niagara traded draft eligible 2007 Frolov plus 2nd, 3rd and 3rd for 2006 Brauti.
The 2005 exchanged are a wash.

A trade that may or may help them make the playoffs, instead of continuing with the goal of building a potential championship team is an idiotic plan!

Here is what they told the fans last year

After the draft, their GM explained, “the 2008s (Wassilyn, Crete) are a nice complement to our outstanding 2007 draft class (Roobroeck, Frolov, Galiyanov, Czata) and we’re excited to see their development this season”.

Following the Frolov trade, they completely flipped the script and told the fans this, “the mandate right now is to make sure we make the playoffs”.

You must see the problem here.

Is Artem highly touted; by whom, where? I agree the picks should have been unnecessary. I would not be surprised if that was part of a two part trade that evens out later allowing Barrie to hold on to more picks now.

 

[Sam14]

Is Artem highly touted; by whom, where? I agree the picks should have been unnecessary. I would not be surprised if that was part of a two part trade that evens out later allowing Barrie to hold on to more picks now.

Based on the IceDogs publicly prescribed plan, just trading Frolov for Brauti was idiotic. Trading just the picks (2,3,3) for Brauti would have made “some” sense.

Frolov’s play last season put him among the top 4-5 2007 blue-liners in the entire OHL. When Central scouting releases their first and/or mid-season ranking expect his name to be on it. I’ll screenshot this post and when Frolov is selected at the 2025 NHL draft I’ll repost it.

 

[bigsportsfan]

I think many of you are missing the big picture here.

The IceDogs record at the import draft under the new owner is dismal. First year they didn’t draft anyone. Second year they drafted Podrekar fourth overall in the CHL Import Draft and now have traded him away. With the 4th overall pick, they should have got a stud. This years import selection will not even sign with us. The import draft costs a lot of money for teams and DD isn’t willing to pay it.

Secondly, have you not noticed DD’s aversion to US players. US players have scholarships that cost more so under DD, the IceDogs are the only team in the OHL to not draft US players. In DD’s three drafts, he hasn’t drafted a single US players. And he has traded away every US player on their roster except Flores so he won’t be stuck paying their scholarship. I bet Flores is traded away this year.

Lastly at the trade deadline last year Lavoie was traded away. Many fans were surprised. But Lavoie was a first round draft pick and would have had the gold scholarship package. By trading him away, DD is no longer responsible for paying his scholarship.

Please understand DD has no interest in building a championship team. He just wants to assemble a cheap team that hopefully makes the playoffs every now and then.

 

[knowescape]

Please understand DD has no interest in building a championship team. He just wants to assemble a cheap team that hopefully makes the playoffs every now and then.

So well put. The IceDogs are about profit and loss, not about a team and all that goes along with winning. I won't be fooled anymore.

 

[three dog night]

First preseason game a shootout loss to Peterborough after the game was tied at seven goals a piece.

 

[coolhandluc44]

I think many of you are missing the big picture here.

The IceDogs record at the import draft under the new owner is dismal. First year they didn’t draft anyone. Second year they drafted Podrekar fourth overall in the CHL Import Draft and now have traded him away. With the 4th overall pick, they should have got a stud. This years import selection will not even sign with us. The import draft costs a lot of money for teams and DD isn’t willing to pay it.

Secondly, have you not noticed DD’s aversion to US players. US players have scholarships that cost more so under DD, the IceDogs are the only team in the OHL to not draft US players. In DD’s three drafts, he hasn’t drafted a single US players. And he has traded away every US player on their roster except Flores so he won’t be stuck paying their scholarship. I bet Flores is traded away this year.

Lastly at the trade deadline last year Lavoie was traded away. Many fans were surprised. But Lavoie was a first round draft pick and would have had the gold scholarship package. By trading him away, DD is no longer responsible for paying his scholarship.

Please understand DD has no interest in building a championship team. He just wants to assemble a cheap team that hopefully makes the playoffs every now and then.

Not arguing but question about Lavoie and in general how OHL contracts work. If Lavoie plays this year that would give him 5 years in the league split between 3 teams. Wouldn’t each team be prorated for each year he uses the scholarship based on how long he played with them? Let’s say for example
It works out he played 40 % of his games in Brantford and 35% in each Mississauga and Niagara. When he goes to school next year would each team pay the previously mentioned percentage of how long he was with each team? Or, are you implying the last team a player is on a roster for is responsible for all years of the scholarship? In this case Brantford.

 

[bigsportsfan]

Not arguing but question about Lavoie and in general how OHL contracts work. If Lavoie plays this year that would give him 5 years in the league split between 3 teams. Wouldn’t each team be prorated for each year he uses the scholarship based on how long he played with them? Let’s say for example
It works out he played 40 % of his games in Brantford and 35% in each Mississauga and Niagara. When he goes to school next year would each team pay the previously mentioned percentage of how long he was with each team? Or, are you implying the last team a player is on a roster for is responsible for all years of the scholarship? In this case Brantford.

The last team that a player plays for normally pays for the entire scholarship. However, teams can negotiate a different arrangement when the player is traded - either the team trading away the player can pay for the full scholarship or the costs can be shared. However, I was told that in the vast majority of cases, the last team usually pays the entire cost.

I guess this makes it easier for the OHL. When a player uses his scholarship money, they contact the OHL office and the OHL pays the costs and then invoices the team.

For those interested in this type of stuff, here is a standard OHL agreement: https://www.charneylawyers.com/docs...hl-standard-player-form.pdf?sfvrsn=11cf93e2_2

If you look at page 9, it says "It is further understood and agreed that the Club may transfer the education package to another team in the League in conjunction with the transfer of the playing rights with respect to the Player."

 

[OHL4Life]

Not arguing but question about Lavoie and in general how OHL contracts work. If Lavoie plays this year that would give him 5 years in the league split between 3 teams. Wouldn’t each team be prorated for each year he uses the scholarship based on how long he played with them? Let’s say for example
It works out he played 40 % of his games in Brantford and 35% in each Mississauga and Niagara. When he goes to school next year would each team pay the previously mentioned percentage of how long he was with each team? Or, are you implying the last team a player is on a roster for is responsible for all years of the scholarship? In this case Brantford.

they traded Lavioe so they could avoid all thier costs and liabilities related to his school package

 

[Sam14]

Two of Niagara’s more blatant US dollar trade dumps involved US players Juan Copeland and Chris O’Flaherty. The trades were essentially, high draft picks (combinations of 2nds, 3rds, 4ths) in exchange for the full cost of the players’ US education package (both players were almost immediately released by London following the trade).

Darren’s dollar driven trades (both US and Canadian educational packages) have become common in Niagara and the reason IceDog fans are not renewing their season tickets, as the team spins it’s wheels, trying desperately to finish 8th. It’s not a model for any kind of success.

 

[mattommy98]

Anyone hear is loshko is coming

 

[dogs777]

Anyone hear is loshko is coming

Haven’t seen anything yet but I’d think you wouldn’t take him off waivers unless you knew he’d come (BUT it’s DD so I’m probably wrong) my guess is they won’t truly know until after kraken camp

 

[bigsportsfan]

Anyone hear is loshko is coming

I noticed he is now on their roster (#27) on the IceDogs website. Would be interesting to see if he shows up for practice today.

 

[Dog Fan]

Haven’t seen anything yet but I’d think you wouldn’t take him off waivers unless you knew he’d come (BUT it’s DD so I’m probably wrong) my guess is they won’t truly know until after kraken camp

Similarly, why would you draft Eliasson if he wasn't going to report. #SELLTHETEAM

 

[frontsfan67]

Similarly, why would you draft Eliasson if he wasn't going to report. #SELLTHETEAM

Could always think of it as a 2 year window.

Next year you guys will be much better- he could be in Niagara then similar to how Pieniniemi wasn’t in Kingston last year but came this year.

All these nhl guys want their European prospects getting in some North American hockey some way, some how. Whether it’s the ahl or ohl is yet to be determined.

Or if he does come this year and doesn’t want to be an ice dog they can always trade him and get some assets in return- which they can flip for players who may be here a few years and fit that window of opportunity.

 

[coolhandluc44]

they traded Lavioe so they could avoid all thier costs and liabilities related to his school package

So the the last team the player plays for bears the whole cost of the players scholarship package? So a player could play 4.5 years get traded in his OA year at the deadline and that new team pays for his 5 years of scholarship should he use it even if he only played for them for a few months?

 

[OHL4Life]

So the the last team the player plays for bears the whole cost of the players scholarship package? So a player could play 4.5 years get traded in his OA year at the deadline and that new team pays for his 5 years of scholarship should he use it even if he only played for them for a few months?

no?

All I said was that Niagara traded him to get rid of their own lability. They traded the 25k or whatever they owed that year for his school package. Niagara traded him to eliminate that years worth of liabilities???

sorry, I’m not sure why it’s hard to get?

 

[coolhandluc44]

no?

All I said was that Niagara traded him to get rid of their own lability. They traded the 25k or whatever they owed that year for his school package. Niagara traded him to eliminate that years worth of liabilities???

sorry, I’m not sure why it’s hard to get?

I’ll just cut to to chase. Assume Lavoie plays this year and starts full-time post secondary next year. Let’s just estimate he is entitled to 20k per year as per his scholarship and maxes out 20k per year. He could potentially have 100k school package as he played 5 years in the league. How much money is Niagara on the hook for based on his scholarship and the time he played for them? I ask this because I have always had an interest on the topic of CHL scholarships and since being more active on this forum I did not know the Niagara owner had this reputation.

 

[OHL4Life]

I’ll just cut to to chase. Assume Lavoie plays this year and starts full-time post secondary next year. Let’s just estimate he is entitled to 20k per year as per his scholarship and maxes out 20k per year. He could potentially have 100k school package as he played 5 years in the league. How much money is Niagara on the hook for based on his scholarship and the time he played for them? I ask this because I have always had an interest on the topic of CHL scholarships and since being more active on this forum I did not know the Niagara owner had this reputation.

you already answerd your own question, its by percentage of the team he played on.

but. conditions of the deals could be that the team accepting the player could agree to take on 100 percent of Niagara's liability on the fees for the year, so niagara's share of that year would be 0 instead of 10k. the other 10k would have went to brantford regardless, but because of how they negotiated the deal, niagara passed the entire 20k for the year over to brantford. there were other trades that were better but did not agree to eat the entire 20k, so niagara didnt explore those.

 

[beastintheeast]

Okay people hgere have talked about dumb trades BUT my question is

What does this team that you have right now look like is it a competitive team.

 

[dirty12]

Okay people hgere have talked about dumb trades BUT my question is

What does this team that you have right now look like is it a competitive team.

Competitive as in a 10-11 finish in league standings, probably not. I think the IceDogs are still a bit young and the vets a bit small. They also may have the toughest schedule. I do think the IceDogs make the playoffs, but it could be a tough start to the season with Bryant and Wycisk unavailable.