Niagara IceDogs 2023-24 Off-Season Thread

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Sam14

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Hundreds of fans in Niagara have tried to explain in person, over the phone and through emails exactly this to Mr. Darren "we are going bid on the Mem-Cup again in 26-27" Dedobbelaer. Darren thinks like George Costanza "If every instinct you have is wrong, then the opposite would have to be right."

 
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frontsfan67

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Hundreds of fans in Niagara have tried to explain in person, over the phone and through emails exactly this to Mr. Darren "we are going bid on the Mem-Cup again in 26-27" Dedobbelaer. Darren thinks like George Costanza "If every instinct you have is wrong, then the opposite would have to be right."

Kitchener put their commitment to it in 2022. They’re VERY good communicating with fans. If only some other teams could do this, their fan base may not be dwindling down *cough Kingston

Plus Kitchener has hosted before I believe and it went well. They seem like the HUGE favourite for it.

Sarnia and you guys should have good teams too. Same with Peterborough but they’ll never get it until they get a new arena.

Kitchener has the biggest arena, most fans, prior mem cup success, and likely the best team that year.

Not sure if they’ve ever had a unanimous winner but they may be pretty close to it
 

Kingpin794

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Kitchener put their commitment to it in 2022. They’re VERY good communicating with fans. If only some other teams could do this, their fan base may not be dwindling down *cough Kingston

Plus Kitchener has hosted before I believe and it went well. They seem like the HUGE favourite for it.

Sarnia and you guys should have good teams too. Same with Peterborough but they’ll never get it until they get a new arena.

Kitchener has the biggest arena, most fans, prior mem cup success, and likely the best team that year.

Not sure if they’ve ever had a unanimous winner but they may be pretty close to it
Medicine Hat is almost certainly a shoe in for 2026. Newer arena with super star to market the event. Really just a formality.
 

frontsfan67

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Medicine Hat is almost certainly a shoe in for 2026. Newer arena with super star to market the event. Really just a formality.
True but Brandon will have Jaxon Jacobson who is going to put up a ton of points, they maybe sell off Roger McQueen too at some point.

Spokane will have Mathis Preston and probably a crap ton of picks and players from trading off Catton this year or next to get ready for it- would be a huge boost for them (just like how trading off Minty to Ottawa really helped you guys.)

I agree though seems like it 1000% should be Medicine Hat. They’re so good they may win the memorial cup here 2 years in a row. This year and next.
 
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Kingpin794

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True but Brandon will have Jaxon Jacobson who is going to put up a ton of points, they maybe sell off Roger McQueen too at some point.

Spokane will have Mathis Preston and probably a crap ton of picks and players from trading off Catton this year or next to get ready for it- would be a huge boost for them (just like how trading off Minty to Ottawa really helped you guys.)

I agree though seems like it 1000% should be Medicine Hat. They’re so good they may win the memorial cup here 2 years in a row. This year and next.
I'll let off this after this post so we don't hijack the thread.

-I don't think they repeat in Brandon. Building just isn't that special for it.

-Too early for America again. Maybe next go around.

-I don't think anyone cares that Lethbridge put in a bid. (too bad for them)

-Kelowna probably won't have the team
 

frontsfan67

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-I don't think they repeat in Brandon. Building just isn't that special for it.
Not talking about Brandon repeating- talking about Medicine Hat. Brandon is making a bid though so I assume when the time is right they sell off mcqueen and Charlie elick
-Too early for America again. Maybe next go around.
I think so too but they will have one of the best teams and Preston is one of the top guys for the 2026 draft
-I don't think anyone cares that Lethbridge put in a bid. (too bad for them)
0 chance they win
-Kelowna probably won't have the team
Maybe not- they could if they sell off cristall, price and Iginla this year- Levi benson is intriguing 5’5 120 as a late 07 birthday but had 2ppg in u18 hockey
 

Kingpin794

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Not talking about Brandon repeating- talking about Medicine Hat. Brandon is making a bid though so I assume when the time is right they sell off mcqueen and Charlie elick

I think so too but they will have one of the best teams and Preston is one of the top guys for the 2026 draft

0 chance they win

Maybe not- they could if they sell off cristall, price and Iginla this year- Levi benson is intriguing 5’5 120 as a late 07 birthday but had 2ppg in u18 hockey
No. Meant they aren't going to host in Brandon again in that building.
 
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bigsportsfan

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After being more active on this board the past few months and coming to understand the issues of ownership the one thought that crossed my mind is that is Gretzky still a minority owner? I get it that his involvement with the team is minimal to probably non-existent, but I would think at some level he has to know about the problems and reputation this team is developing in the hockey world and would not want to be associated with it.
Gretzky quietly left the ownership group last season. There was no announcement or mention of it from the IceDogs. It was actually very strange but not unexpected considering how the Icedogs are being run.
 

knowescape

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Gretzky quietly left the ownership group last season. There was no announcement or mention of it from the IceDogs. It was actually very strange but not unexpected considering how the Icedogs are being run.
Surprisingly, while the news media trumpeted The Great One's involved, none have asked him about it. I know the local media are shy about asking 3D questions for fear they will been ostracized, but perhaps an agency outside our little pond could pose the question to Gretzky?
 
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Sam14

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Equally mysterious, was as the “hiring and disappearance” of former NHLer Rick Wamsley in Darren’s first season. Spoke to Wamsley shortly after his unexplained disappearance and IceDog fans you wouldn’t believe what happened there, actually you would.
 
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WorkHardEveryShift

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There is nothing wrong with Frolov. He just is not elite, and probably not on PP1 ahead of Wycisk, Virgilio, and all the more offensively talented forwards.


Currently, Frolov is not among this list of top 30 OHL first time NHL draft eligible players. The list does not even include this years imports.
Knowing that there will likely be less than 40 OHL 2005-07 born players selected, a Frolov selection inside the top 200 seems a stretch to me at this time.

Brauti is way better than Frolov. No comparison.
 

knowescape

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Equally mysterious, was as the “hiring and disappearance” of former NHLer Rick Wamsley in Darren’s first season. Spoke to Wamsley shortly after his unexplained disappearance and IceDog fans you wouldn’t believe what happened there, actually you would.
Going to give us a hint... Or was this just the HF equivalent of click-bait?
 

Sam14

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Going to give us a hint... Or was this just the HF equivalent of click-bait?
Out of respect for his candour with me, I don’t feel comfortable recounting the entire conversation. However, what I can share is: After Wamsley, hired as the hockey consultant, spent countless hours, reviewing Darren’s "hockey model", he prepared a full report recommending some of the necessary changes required on and off the ice to create a hockey model for success...he didn't like what he heard and was told his services were no longer needed.
 
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dirty12

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Brauti is way better than Frolov. No comparison.

Yeah, still it seems Barrie owes Niagara for allowing them to save picks in the Bertucci trade; unless there is the speculated bag of $, there’s a part II maybe part III in the future that favours Niagara.
 

Sam14

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Brauti is way better than Frolov. No comparison.
Some will agree and others will disagree with that, however, who some think is the better player at the moment is completely irrelevant to the “issue and problem” with the trade and what the 100s of departed season ticket holders are upset about. I realize I’m repeating this AGAIN, but it is EXACTLY the problem and issue with the trade AND ORGANIZATION.

Niagara might finish 8th, but at what price? After the draft, their GM explained, “the 2008s (Wassilyn, Crete) are a nice complement to our outstanding 2007 draft class (Roobroeck, Frolov, Galiyanov, Czata) and we’re excited to see their development this season”.

Following the Frolov trade, they completely flipped the script, “the mandate right now is to make sure we make the playoffs”. To make ANY trades to assemble a team that may or may not make the playoffs, instead of continuing with the goal of building a potential championship is an idiotic plan!

Just take a look at what this outstanding organization (Kitchener) is doing to build around their 2007-2008 core (and if you want to see an example of a western conference team, checkout the Petes’ roster.

 
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knowescape

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Out of respect for his candour with me, I don’t feel comfortable recounting the entire conversation. However, what I can share is: After Wamsley spent countless hours, reviewing Darren’s "hockey model", he prepared a full report recommending some of the necessary changes required on and off the ice to create a hockey model for success...he didn't like what he heard and was told his services were no longer needed.
Wait... Darren had a hockey model? I guess when you find out you aren't the smartest person in the room you either find another room or ask someone to leave. Niagara deserves better. I place the blame squarely on the OHL and its Board of Governors.

I’m not sure how Niagara picks would require ‘laundering’. I can see receiving monetary value of picks working out for the IceDogs though.
Picks are only valuable if you want to build a team or buy players to enhance your squad. This is not the current cash-centric model. So they liquidate picks to teams who have the traditional goal in mind.
 

dirty12

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Some will agree and others will disagree with that, however, who some think is the better player at the moment is completely irrelevant to the “issue and problem” with the trade and what the 100s of departed season ticket holders are upset about. I realize I’m repeating this AGAIN, but it is EXACTLY the problem and issue with the trade AND ORGANIZATION.

Niagara might finish 8th, but at what price? After the draft, their GM explained, “the 2008s (Wassilyn, Crete) are a nice complement to our outstanding 2007 draft class (Roobroeck, Frolov, Galiyanov, Czata) and we’re excited to see their development this season”.

Following the Frolov trade, they completely flipped the script, “the mandate right now is to make sure we make the playoffs”. To make ANY trades to assemble a team that may or may not make the playoffs, instead of continuing with the goal of building a potential championship is an idiotic plan!

Just take a look at what this outstanding organization (Kitchener) is doing to build around their 2007-2008 core (and if you want to see an example of a western conference team, checkout the Petes’ roster.



Brauti and Virgilio compliment the 2007 as well. Having those two as OAs very much improve the chances of the 2007 born forwards being competitive.
 

Sam14

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Brauti and Virgilio compliment the 2007 as well. Having those two as OAs very much improve the chances of the 2007 born forwards being competitive.

Brauti and Virgilio compliment the 2007 as well. Having those two as OAs very much improve the chances of the 2007 born forwards being competitive.
So why NOT this, if you are building around an 07-08 core as your Mem-Cup team, as they claimed?

The picks 2nd, 3rd, 3rd (and just for the sake of argument add another pick into the deal if you really want) for an undrafted 06 would have been fair enough and a trade to assist with the rebuild around the 07-08 core. Including 2007 Artem Frolov in the deal is stupidity, an overpay and an embarrassment to the fan base!

You can argue that all you want but it doesn’t make trading him right for this franchise! It was an idiotic trade! You can’t build around an 07-08 core when you trade your best and only 07 D.
 

dirty12

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So why NOT this, if you are building around an 07-08 core as your Mem-Cup team, as they claimed?

The picks 2nd, 3rd, 3rd (and just for the sake of argument add another pick into the deal if you really want) for an undrafted 06 would have been fair enough and a trade to assist with the rebuild around the 07-08 core. Including 2007 Artem Frolov in the deal is stupidity, an overpay and an embarrassment to the fan base!

You can argue that all you want but it doesn’t make trading him right for this franchise! It was an idiotic trade! You can’t build around an 07-08 core when you trade your best and only 07 D.

You’re being a bit narrow minded I think. The Brauti, and Virgilio additions enhance the Icedogs chances of the 2007-08 being competitive, not hinder them.
The Barrie-Flint-Niagara trade was not happening without the inclusion of Frolov. Frolov is not the only good but far from elite ‘07 D that will be made an available between this off-season and the 2026-27 trade deadline. The Barrie-Niagara transactions will be on-going imo.
 
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