NHL & Vegas Part Deuces Wild: Betting it all on Black (Knights)

[Voight]

The problem with baseball is you almost have to have a guarantee that you're getting a team, because nobody is building a major league sized baseball stadium without the assurance that they're getting a team, because it's going to sit empty if there is no team.

And baseball doesn't play that many day games. I'm looking at my teams schedule and 70% of their home games are at night, which seems about right for an MLB team.

And you're going to have the extra cost of either a dome or retractable roof for a stadium, because I don't care how dry the air is. 110-120 degrees is oppressive heat and I don't think fans would come out to watch a game in that weather without a roof.

This exactly. If Vegas fails to land an NBA/NHL team the arena will still be used for concerts and other shows like Monster Jam. You can't do much with an empty baseball stadium, ask Montreal how thats working out for them. (Plus theirs is indoor so it would technically offer more opportunities)

 

[IU Hawks fan]

MLS is not minor league soccer though. If you want to call soccer league minor then you need to look at the lower US soccer divisions like NASL or USL

Please, some respect for MLS. It's a growing league with plenty of talented players. Kudos to Seattle for mega support for their team, which other cities with MLS teams should replicate.

I know, it was a low blow

I like MLS. I go to a ton a Fire games. Going to a Fire game feels like going to a minor league game. In most cities, I'm sure that's the sentiment. Small stadium, cheap tickets, going more to tailgate than see the game itself.

So for Seattle to make soccer Major League by jamming 40000 in every game and several that sell out CenturkLink entirely, that's saying something. If that town can't get behind an NHL team, I don't know what's wrong with the world.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

This exactly. If Vegas fails to land an NBA/NHL team the arena will still be used for concerts and other shows like Monster Jam. You can't do much with an empty baseball stadium, ask Montreal how thats working out for them. (Plus theirs is indoor so it would technically offer more opportunities)

Yep. And like I said earlier, a modern baseball stadium with a roof is some SERIOUS real estate - at least two to three times the size of an NHL-caliber arena.

You have to go through a particularly rigorous process to get an MLB franchise, too, considering that it takes them a long while to decide to expand and their franchises are not nearly as portable as NHL fans apparently want theirs to be.

No, to be honest, either the NBA or NHL is the best first pro league for Vegas because of the relatively low infrastructure demands.

 

[Braun]

You really don't have respect for anyone in a non-traditional hockey area, do you?

Of course I do, it is necessary to have teams in all markets. Vegas is not, IMO, the city that should get the next team.

 

[HanSolo]

Of course I do, it is necessary to have teams in all markets. Vegas is not, IMO, the city that should get the next team.

And that's fine. But that 5 fans crack is idiotic and offensive.

And clearly you DON'T have respect saying **** like that.

 

[Braun]

And that's fine. But that 5 fans crack is idiotic and offensive.

And clearly you DON'T have respect saying **** like that.

I apologize it really wasn't meant as an offence, bad choice of words. All I mean is I get the money aspect of it but there are markets who "deserve" a team at least at the same time as Vegas or before. I am not trying to be an ass but it pisses me off that the NHL a just outright ignores Canadian markets who will sell out every night for an expansion into unknown territory (professional sports wise). Sorry, didn't want to sound like a dick.

 

[HanSolo]

I apologize it really wasn't meant as an offence, bad choice of words. All I mean is I get the money aspect of it but there are markets who "deserve" a team at least at the same time as Vegas or before. I am not trying to be an ass but it pisses me off that the NHL a just outright ignores Canadian markets who will sell out every night for an expansion into unknown territory (professional sports wise). Sorry, didn't want to sound like a dick.

It's not like they can't get them in the future. There's always relocation. I just think the NHL left two slots open in the west for a reason.

 

[tp71]

I apologize it really wasn't meant as an offence, bad choice of words. All I mean is I get the money aspect of it but there are markets who "deserve" a team at least at the same time as Vegas or before. I am not trying to be an ass but it pisses me off that the NHL a just outright ignores Canadian markets who will sell out every night for an expansion into unknown territory (professional sports wise). Sorry, didn't want to sound like a dick.

They will sell out, but the problem is most canadian hockey fans will still watch or go to NHL hockey without a team in their market. There is imo much more for potential growth in Las Vegas than there is in Hamilton/Quebec. Las Vegas as well imo they need to be there first. If they don't, and the NBA goes there, they missed out on what could be a good market. You know Quebec and Hamilton will be, but is it not a good idea to go to a place that could potentially grow the game further instead of two places where it's more than likely marginal growth? There is also much more potential for television revenue as well. That's big.

As for the comments, there are people here who are fans of this game in non-traditional markets, but they still love the game. It would hurt you just as much as it would them to lose their team. To sit and say certain people deserve hockey less than others isn't right. We should hope instead that they being so devoted helps others see how amazing hockey is and they become fans as well. Don't you think more people should love hockey as much as we all do on this site?

 

[Fugu]

I apologize it really wasn't meant as an offence, bad choice of words. All I mean is I get the money aspect of it but there are markets who "deserve" a team at least at the same time as Vegas or before. I am not trying to be an ass but it pisses me off that the NHL a just outright ignores Canadian markets who will sell out every night for an expansion into unknown territory (professional sports wise). Sorry, didn't want to sound like a dick.

We try to avoid using terms like 'deserve' on the business board. One can present a business case for why or why not a market would work out.

This helps people avoid getting into these emotional side bars.

 

[Fenway]

The NHL historically has made curious decisions of where franchises should go.

The Cleveland Barons of the AHL in the late 50's/early 60's could well have won the Stanley Cup but Detroit and Chicago did not want them to join the club.

When the NHL did finally expand in 1967 they chose St. Louis over Cleveland simply because the Blackhawks owned the St. Louis Arena.

I fully expect the NHL will be in Las Vegas for the 2016-7 season.

 

[kmad]

When the NHL did finally expand in 1967 they chose St. Louis over Cleveland simply because the Blackhawks owned the St. Louis Arena.

They awarded St Louis an expansion franchise without anyone applying for one.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

You know why that is Gary? Because people on the whole don't care about the NHL.

Well he just hasn't seen the V Bookie forum yet.

 

[Tawnos]

I apologize it really wasn't meant as an offence, bad choice of words. All I mean is I get the money aspect of it but there are markets who "deserve" a team at least at the same time as Vegas or before. I am not trying to be an ass but it pisses me off that the NHL a just outright ignores Canadian markets who will sell out every night for an expansion into unknown territory (professional sports wise). Sorry, didn't want to sound like a dick.

Ah, yes... the absurdity of philosophical priority. There's no such thing as a proper order for doing this kind of thing.

I look at it this way. The company I work for sells guitars. They don't pay all that well. They don't have to. Why? Because, by the nature of the business, there will always be an infinite supply of young people who want to work there. The company takes advantage of that. Is it right? Not from my perspective. But from their perspective, given this source of labor, why wouldn't they take advantage? It makes good business sense.

In a similar way, Quebec City and Hamilton will always be there for the NHL to go to. But, at this exact moment, the NHL has a building and willing ownership in a new market. That building and willing ownership, unlike in the Canadian cities, will not always be available in Vegas. Is it right? That's a matter of opinion. But from the league's perspective, this isn't a moral question. Tt makes sense to use the temporary opportunity now while ignoring the permanent opportunities.

The very nature of the Canadian hockey fan is what allows the NHL to take advantage of it. It's what allows the NHL to ignore it. (Heck, the nature of the hockey fan in general is what allows the NHL to shut the league down three times in 20 years). It shows a true love of the game on the part of the fans who will endure so much and that's great in its own way. Just remember that the NHL isn't being disrespectful when it ignores those markets. It's not disrespect. Business decisions aren't personal.

 

[IceAce]

I apologize it really wasn't meant as an offence, bad choice of words. All I mean is I get the money aspect of it but there are markets who "deserve" a team at least at the same time as Vegas or before. I am not trying to be an ass but it pisses me off that the NHL a just outright ignores Canadian markets who will sell out every night for an expansion into unknown territory (professional sports wise). Sorry, didn't want to sound like a dick.

Sorry but no one "deserves" anything. We're discussing a luxury here, a form of high end entertainment.

Not to mention didn't Canada just get the last franchise relocation? I fail to see how you're being ignored?

QC is a tiny (by comparison) and already hockey-saturated market, just like Winnipeg. And if it's going to get a team, it's probably going to be just like how Winnipeg got one, as a savior for an existing team (most likely in the East) that can't survive in it's current situation.

Hamilton likely won't see a team due to being right between Toronto and Buffalo, and neither of those franchises wanting it there. (Incidentally this is the same reason Hartford probably won't get a team back even if they did have a new arena).

Why is it we can never discuss the expansion potential of another market in the US without having to hear about how Canada "deserves" it more?

 

[varsaku]

I apologize it really wasn't meant as an offence, bad choice of words. All I mean is I get the money aspect of it but there are markets who "deserve" a team at least at the same time as Vegas or before. I am not trying to be an ass but it pisses me off that the NHL a just outright ignores Canadian markets who will sell out every night for an expansion into unknown territory (professional sports wise). Sorry, didn't want to sound like a dick.

The reasons why NHL doesn't want to expand in Canada:

• With the Canadian dollar falling adding a team in Canada wouldn't drastically increase league revenue. Especially when revenue is in CDN and expenses are in USD.

• Adding more teams in Canada will dilute the markets.

• New teams would need approval from existing teams if they are within their region.

• I am pretty sure Bettman's bonuses are based on league revenue. So adding an american team will add more revenue than a canadian team with CDN falling.

• Adding teams in new markets gives the NHL more negotiating power when negotiating for TV contracts.

 

[IU Hawks fan]

Why is it we can never discuss the expansion potential of another market in the US without having to hear about how Canada "deserves" it more?

Good question.

Never gonna happen.

 

[lvwranglersfan]

Per the ownership group, they are halfway to the 10,000 ticket goal.

http://www.reviewjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl-ticket-drive-already-halfway-goal

 

[Braun]

The reasons why NHL doesn't want to expand in Canada:

• With the Canadian dollar falling adding a team in Canada wouldn't drastically increase league revenue. Especially when revenue is in CDN and expenses are in USD.

True but if teams manage more revenue than the Florida Panthers even with a weaker dollar they are more profitable no?

• Adding more teams in Canada will dilute the markets.

Tell that to the people of Quebec City and surroundings who are only looking forward to have their own team and rivalry to show up Montreal. Let's be honest here, the hockey market in Canada is not 1-2 teams away from being diluted.

• New teams would need approval from existing teams if they are within their region.

Agreed, for example Quebec, I really doubt Ottawa and Montreal would go against the expansion/relocation of a club. It would be GREAT for marketing, sales and hype.

• I am pretty sure Bettman's bonuses are based on league revenue. So adding an american team will add more revenue than a canadian team with CDN falling.

Exactly, you said it, one guy gets what he wants to the detriment of our beloved sport.

• Adding teams in new markets gives the NHL more negotiating power when negotiating for TV contracts.

True, i'll admit I don't know much about TV contracts but you have one of the biggest TV providers in Quebec jus waiting for a team to invest.

 

[Braun]

Good question.

Never gonna happen.

Maybe there is a reason for that?

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Per the ownership group, they are halfway to the 10,000 ticket goal.

http://www.reviewjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl-ticket-drive-already-halfway-goal

Certainly a good first step. Hope they keep it up and reach the 10K mark and then some in rapid fashion.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

We should hope instead that they being so devoted helps others see how amazing hockey is and they become fans as well. Don't you think more people should love hockey as much as we all do on this site?

This bears repeating. I'd be curious to see statistical analysis of what passionate NHL fans in, say, Hamilton, do to grow the game versus what passionate NHL fans in places like California, Arizona, or Florida do.

I know that our admittedly smaller core of fans in Arizona can't hold a candle to the possible STH base in QC or Hamilton. BUT, what I do know is that most of us are tireless proponents of the game in the state at all levels. I have personally budgeted extra money every year after purchasing my season tix towards other in-state hockey programs - one year, it was buying uniforms and equipment for a local U18 team; another year, I wrote checks to the NAU D3 club hockey program, etc.

I'm not trying to brag or take some sort of moral high ground - what I'm trying to say is that in traditional areas the best argument for adding teams is to grow the LEAGUE, whereas in places like Vegas and Seattle the object skews more towards growing the GAME. It's a spin on the old "Give a man a fish/Teach a man to fish" aphorism.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Per the ownership group, they are halfway to the 10,000 ticket goal.

http://www.reviewjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl-ticket-drive-already-halfway-goal

Keep it up, Vegas!

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Maybe there is a reason for that?

There is. It's because a certain section of fans feel entitled to the game when they are not.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Per the ownership group, they are halfway to the 10,000 ticket goal.

http://www.reviewjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl-ticket-drive-already-halfway-goal

Didn't Winnipeg sell out in mere minutes? I don't see 5k sold in 36 hours as being anything to really brag about.

Vegas is actually quite a poor city. Outside of the strip it really looks like it's been hit hard by the recession. Really, if not for the strip there'd be nothing there. Even on the strip all the casinos either have, or are currently in bankruptcy protection. Even the mammoth Caesars chain is bankrupt. I just don't see this working out very well.

 

[XX]

Didn't Winnipeg sell out in mere minutes? I don't see 5k sold in 36 hours as being anything to really brag about.

What does this add to the thread? Vegas is not Winnipeg.

Per the ownership group, they are halfway to the 10,000 ticket goal.

http://www.reviewjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl-ticket-drive-already-halfway-goal

Love it. Hope they hit it by the end of the month.