NHL & Vegas Part Deuces Wild: Betting it all on Black (Knights)

[Jeffrey93]

Wait...

First you questioned Feckless talking about front office staff because in your opinion it isn't relevant because the franchise hasn't happened, and now you are wanting to talk about another scenario that hasn't happened yet either?

Yes....a scenario about what is currently occurring. If we're not talking about that scenario then what is this thread about?

Assembling a potential front office for a non-existent team
compared to
Wondering about the outcome of the current ticket drive that is on-going

I see how you can compare the two. Makes perfect sense.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

The NHLPA does not share in the expansion fee, so there is no incentive for them to let a new team operate "outside the system." Bettman has never allowed player costs to work "outside the system."

I do agree that some better players with less desirable contracts could be left unprotected, but I absolutely think the teams will have to be cap compliant. It may be tougher on them to piece together enough quality players. That said, maybe the NHL will allow fewer players to be protected. These teams shouldn't be allowed to have their cake and eat it too.

Fully agree, especially considering that they're not getting a piece of that expansion fee(s) and after the owners already took a bigger piece of the pie in the last lockout, the NHLPA really has no reason to allow expansion teams a temporarily lower cap floor. Still wouldn't be surprised to see the owners try to push for it, though... unless more than enough of them want to offload heavier contracts off their books via the expansion draft, that is.

 

[IceAce]

I cant imagine Bettman setting up a scenario where teams are using the expansion draft as a salary dump and that expansion teams would be forced to be at the current salary floor.

There would have to be some condition that if a player with so many years left on his deal making over a certain $ threshold gets left unprotected that the team leaving him exposed has to retain a certain % of his cap hit if he's claimed.

Otherwise, Las Vegas' 1st line will be LeCavalier, Bolland, and Clarkson

 

[FlaPantherSwe*]

I cant imagine Bettman setting up a scenario where teams are using the expansion draft as a salary dump. There would have to be some condition that if a player with so many years left on his deal making over a certain $ threshold gets left unprotected that the team leaving him exposed has to retain a certain % of his cap hit.

Otherwise, Las Vegas' 1st line will be LeCavalier, Bolland, and Clarkson

Just imagined it

 

[Fugu]

What the league may attempt to negotiate with the PA is a system like the NBA's, applicable only to the expansion teams and only for a set period (2, 3, 5 years max) where the team doesn't have to take on big salaries for the sake of reaching the cap floor, but if they come in under the floor for whatever reason, the difference between their total cap charge and the floor gets divided amongst all the players who were on their roster that year, in shares equivalent to the number of games they played (so, a player on their roster for 82 games would get a full share, while an AHLer who was only there for a game would get 1/82 of a share.)

That way, the team wouldn't have to take on bad salary just to take on bad salary, but the players would still get their full take.

Of course, they could just take Vinny, AMac, Umberger, and the carcass of Chris Pronger's deal off Philly's hands. That'd fix the cap hit right quick.

I still don't see how this is an incentive to the NHLPA, but with that said, the NHL contracts are guaranteed so players will get paid their full amounts, minus escrow, regardless.

If you leave the two teams outside the system, that means the PA isn't necessarily counting the HRR and their share of it, as you can't really include these teams HRR but let them bypass the cap.

Yes....a scenario about what is currently occurring. If we're not talking about that scenario then what is this thread about?

Assembling a potential front office for a non-existent team
compared to
Wondering about the outcome of the current ticket drive that is on-going

I see how you can compare the two. Makes perfect sense.

This is the generic Las Vegas thread. We can discuss all of the above.

 

[Mosby]

Have to wonder if NMC/NTCs prevent some of the larger contracts (Clarkson, etc.) from being left unprotected for an expansion draft.

 

[IceAce]

Great question. Is being exposed to an expansion draft taken into consideration in a standard NTC or NMC? And is it considered more like being traded? Or being put on waivers?

I would think the latter.

 

[Major4Boarding]

Great question. Is being exposed to an expansion draft taken into consideration in a standard NTC or NMC? And is it considered more like being traded? Or being put on waivers?

I would think the latter.

We were discussing this over on the Lightning Board. I brought up the same thing, that it would be interesting how the above mentioned occurs because it'll be the first Expansion Draft with a cap, NTC, and NMC. Especially the latter.

Just a high-level overview of how the 2000 Expansion Draft was set up.

* Protect either one Goalie
* 5 Defensemen
* 9 Forwards

-or-

* 2 Goalies
* 3 Defensemen
* 7 Forwards

For teams protecting only one goaltender, there was no experience requirement for those left unprotected. For teams protecting two goaltenders, each goaltender left unprotected must have appeared in either 10 NHL games in the 1999–2000 season or 25 games in the 1998–99 season and 1999–2000 seasons combined. A goaltender had to be in net for at least 31 minutes in each game for the game to be counted against these totals.

At least one defenceman left unprotected by each team had to have appeared in at least 40 games in the 1999–2000 season or 70 games in the 1998–99 season and 1999–2000 seasons combined. At least two forwards left unprotected by each team had to have met the same requirements.

2000 NHL Expansion Draft

 

[TheLegend]

Yes....a scenario about what is currently occurring. If we're not talking about that scenario then what is this thread about?

Assembling a potential front office for a non-existent team
compared to
Wondering about the outcome of the current ticket drive that is on-going

I see how you can compare the two. Makes perfect sense.

Sure... it's easy to compare because BOTH scenarios are extensions to the current thread. You can't pick and choose the relevancy unless you're simply arguing to argue..

 

[tsanuri]

Great question. Is being exposed to an expansion draft taken into consideration in a standard NTC or NMC? And is it considered more like being traded? Or being put on waivers?

I would think the latter.

I would think you are forced to protect them. The team negotiated it with them. So they have the say where they are willing to go. Otherwise it makes the NTC/NMC worth nothing to the player really. And it also makes it a real pain for those GM's that like handing them out like candy.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

I would think you are forced to protect them. The team negotiated it with them. So they have the say where they are willing to go. Otherwise it makes the NTC/NMC worth nothing to the player really. And it also makes it a real pain for those GM's that like handing them out like candy.

I would guess - only guess, since I don't have the CBA in front of me - that a NMC would protect against an expansion draft, but a NTC would not. A NTC does not protect from a waiver claim, and that is essentially what an expansion draft is.

 

[kdb209]

Great question. Is being exposed to an expansion draft taken into consideration in a standard NTC or NMC? And is it considered more like being traded? Or being put on waivers?

I would think the latter.

We were discussing this over on the Lightning Board. I brought up the same thing, that it would be interesting how the above mentioned occurs because it'll be the first Expansion Draft with a cap, NTC, and NMC. Especially the latter.

Just a high-level overview of how the 2000 Expansion Draft was set up.

* Protect either one Goalie
* 5 Defensemen
* 9 Forwards

-or-

* 2 Goalies
* 3 Defensemen
* 7 Forwards


2000 NHL Expansion Draft

I would guess - only guess, since I don't have the CBA in front of me - that a NMC would protect against an expansion draft, but a NTC would not. A NTC does not protect from a waiver claim, and that is essentially what an expansion draft is.

NTCs existed under the 1995 CBA. They had no impact on the '98-'00 Expansion Drafts.

NMCs were added in the 2005 CBA, but by their strict definition they would not be applicable to an Expansion Draft - it is neither a "Trade, Loan or Waiver claim".

A no-move clause may prevent the involuntary relocation of a Player, whether by
Trade, Loan or Waiver claim. A no-move clause, however, may not restrict the Club's Buy-Out
and termination rights as set forth in this Agreement. Prior to exercising its Ordinary Course
Buy-Out rights pursuant to Paragraph 13 of the SPC hereof, the Club shall, in writing in
accordance with the notice provisions in Exhibit 3 hereof, provide the Player with the option of
electing to be placed on Waivers. The Player will have twenty-four (24) hours from the time he
receives such notice to accept or reject that option at his sole discretion, and shall so inform the
Club in writing, in accordance with the notice provisions in Exhibit 3 hereof, within such twentyfour
(24) hour period. If the Player does not timely accept or reject that option, it will be deemed
rejected.

Given that the CBA recognizes in other sections the possibility of an Expansion Draft but Article 11.8 does not include one in the protections offered by a NMC, it could be interpreted that NMCs would not prevent a player from being exposed or claimed in an Expansion Draft.

But given that it is likely than any Expansion and Expansion Draft would likely be done in consultation with the NHLPA, it would be subject to whatever rules the Teams/Players agree to.

 

[knorthern knight]

As for the new team being temporarily below the salary cap, it shouldn't affect the players. But it probably requires their consent, due to being in the CBA. Put it this way... if HRR is $X million, then the players get $X/2 million, either way. It's just that the new team would have more minor-leaguers. The only effect on other players is that they get hit with less escrow on their paycheques.

One more question, while we're on expansion. I believe that "1st and 2nd year pros" are exempt. I assume that means players who have been in NHL/AHL/ECHL/whatever no more than the 2 seasons before the draft. E.g. if a player played pro hockey in only the 2014-2015 and 2015-2016 seasons, they would be exampt from the draft in June of 2016. Is that correct?

 

[BattleBorn]

New video/commercial for the ticket drive. As far as I've seen, this is the only commercial since the Super Bowl.

http://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=802861639803994

I'm assuming it's a commercial due to the length of the video, haven't actually seen it on TV.

 

[danishh]

cbc is doing a story on the vegas situation tommorow on the national. or maybe monday. i wasnt really paying attention.

 

[LeafShark]

cbc is doing a story on the vegas situation tommorow on the national. or maybe monday. i wasnt really paying attention.

Probably going to tell us what we already know. 8k tickets, no grantee of a franchise, arena is being built, Quebec may expand with LV, previous expansion franchises generally needed 12k tickets in a year's time, there are some people who are very passionate, but others that have no idea what the NHL even is.

 

[Spade]

Touches on the topic of the expansion draft and its importance to potential new teams like Seattle and of course Las Vegas.

http://www.hockeyminority.com/?p=88

 

[psowrc]

Probably going to tell us what we already know. 8k tickets, no grantee of a franchise, arena is being built, Quebec may expand with LV, previous expansion franchises generally needed 12k tickets in a year's time, there are some people who are very passionate, but others that have no idea what the NHL even is.

Which team needed 12000 tickets?

 

[LeafShark]

Which team needed 12000 tickets?

Nashville
http://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/stories/1998/03/16/newscolumn2.html?page=all

 

[BattleBorn]

9,000. Done.

http://www.reviewjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl-season-ticket-deposit-drive-reaches-9000

 

[Sens Mile]

9,000. Done.

http://www.reviewjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl-season-ticket-deposit-drive-reaches-9000

Came to post that, I am shocked on how quickly they were able to get to 9000 (from the timespan in between 8000).

We may soon have a 31 team NHL

 

[LeafShark]

9,000. Done.

http://www.reviewjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl-season-ticket-deposit-drive-reaches-9000

10k tickets is pretty much a lock now.

 

[Fugu]

I knew Vegas was next. Jimmy Devellano said that back in 2006 or 2007.

 

[Jett Jagaar]

9,000. Done.

http://www.reviewjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl-season-ticket-deposit-drive-reaches-9000

awwwwww yaaaaaaaaaa!!!

 

[0point1]

Cue "It's happening" gif