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League News: NHL Talk - (News n' Scores n' Stuff) - COVID Post-Season Edition

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Misery74 said:
It’s his fault he signed middling veterans to bloated contracts. It’s his fault he traded a 1st and a 2nd to Detroit.
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Yeah, he really should have found a way to go all in the last 10 years, saved cap space, filled the prospect pool, paid our stars, and won more cups all at the same time. I mean every other GM is doing it.....
 
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Corby78 said:
Yeah, he really should have found a way to go all in the last 10 years, saved cap space, filled the prospect pool, paid our stars, and won more cups all at the same time. I mean every other GM is doing it.....
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Did Panik need a 4 year contract? Did Hagelin? Did Dillon? Did we need Schultz?

These were terrible moves, none of which were remotely all in moves. They were poor over-signings of middling vets.

Now what?
 
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txpd said:
Sigh....Hagelin has earned his check and has done exactly what they have hired him for.
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He’s way overpaid. Sorry, I disagree. He’s a great penalty killer, but didn’t need a 4 year contract at more than $2m.

He doesn’t chip in at all offensively. He’s a PTO player.
 
Its time to fire Laviolette and MacLellan. Hagelin and Vrana both averaged 14 mins per game and Vrana was traded.
 
Misery74 said:
Did Panik need a 4 year contract? Did Hagelin? Did Dillon? Did we need Schultz?

These were terrible moves, none of which were remotely all in moves. They were poor over-signings of middling vets.

Now what?
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Panik was a bad deal, but hagelin was needed. We also needed help on the blue line and we went out and tried to fix it. Did we overpay a bit? Yeah, but we were buyers who don’t have time to wait. That’s what happens. I’m not going to bust GMBM for trying to win now. If we were building something then sure. But we don’t have time to miss on guys because we didn’t offer enough
 
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Corby78 said:
Panik was a bad deal, but hagelin was needed. We also needed help on the blue line and we went out and tried to fix it. Did we overpay a bit? Yeah, but we were buyers who don’t have time to wait. That’s what happens. I’m not going to bust GMBM for trying to win now. If we were building something then sure. But we don’t have time to miss on guys because we didn’t offer enough
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My only retort here is if they did a better job drafting and developing then they wouldn’t need to panic buy to fill holes. The organization seemingly has not placed a lot of emphasis on development and pipeline which I guess is understandable because they’re a veteran team and don’t have time or don’t want to wait but when you have to give bottom six players or marginal defenseman richer contracts than they might deserve you tend to find yourself in a bind. I think they swung too far to the right on the age pendulum and would have been better served if some of those spots were filled internally.
 
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AlexBrovechkin8 said:
My only retort here is if they did a better job drafting and developing then they wouldn’t need to panic buy to fill holes. The organization seemingly has not placed a lot of emphasis on development and pipeline which I guess is understandable because they’re a veteran team and don’t have time or don’t want to wait but when you have to give bottom six players or marginal defenseman richer contracts than they might deserve you tend to find yourself in a bind. I think they swing too far to the right on the age pendulum and would have been better served if some of those spots were filled internally.
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all of this
 
They’re on record, multiple times, as saying they expected (more) consistent offense from both Hagelin and Panik. Not quite as many points as Connolly and Burakovsky got, but still. If Hagelin could be more productive at this point in his career, his contract would absolutely be a fair value.

I think it’s important, though, not to confuse how he’s been (successfully) utilised since he was acquired and extended, with what they expected of him at the time they acquired or signed him. Remember, this is the guy who got 2LW minutes next to Kuzy within weeks of becoming a Cap - that doesn’t happen if you expect him to purely be a shutdown forward who doesn’t put up points. Even once it was clear Panik didn’t work on the third line, Hagelin was stapled to Eller’s side along with defensively-poor Kovulchuk - again, not what you do with shutdown forwards. Mike Richards was similarly effective on the PK, faceoffs and defending, but the anticipated offence GMBM and Trotz anticipated never emerged. Hagelin is a better player than Richards, but we won a cup extracting every bit of value out of guys like Beagle and Connolly, and I don’t think the contracts GMBM signed Dillon, Schultz and Hagelin to were ‘team-friendly’. They seemed like uncorrected FA prices, on a team that knew it needed cheaper depth to succeed.

Hagelin was brought in to be a two-way player, and he seems very dependent on his linemates to be more than a defensive forward at this point. Dillon has the tools, but you expect a defensive-first D-man to be steady and proactive rather than reliant on their D-partner for stability. That’s why Dillon-Carlson and Dillon-Schultz hasn’t worked, but Dillon-TVR and Dillon-Jensen has. On paper he’s a good fit for the team, but I’m doubtful that he’s as good a fit in practice.

Four years isn’t excessive term to get the AAV down, but I’d be sceptical of any team that was giving Hagelin $2.75m on a one year contract, let alone four. And I’m not sure what about Dillon makes his overall value that much greater than either Kempny (pre-injury) or Jensen.
 
Corby78 said:
If we would have not been buyers at the TDL and not spent money in FA with Ovie chasing a cup people would have run GMBM out on a rail.

caps fans are the whiniest people I know
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Not sure if you're missing my point or ignoring it. Buying in FA or making trades at the deadline occasionally makes sense to fill a specific hole but if you're doing it every year as the basis for your roster construction it's going to be tough to manage the cap and you're going to be left in vulnerable positions. And generally speaking, filling holes externally on a yearly/regular basis means you're not committed to drafting and developing or you're not good at it (or not patient enough).

Only six of the 18 non-goalie skaters that started in the playoffs last season were homegrown players: Ovi, Nick, Wilson, Kuz, Carlson, Orlov. Wilson is the youngest and most recent draft choice and he was drafted almost a decade ago in 2012. Not a single player in last year's bottom six was drafted by the Caps and only two regular players on the blueline were drafted by the Caps, and the most recent one (Orlov) was drafted in 2009. That's got to be toward the bottom of the league in terms of the split between organic vs acquired players, and that takes a toll on your salary cap and other assets.

And let's not pretend like people are getting upset over a one year splurge of free agent spending or trade acquisitions. I love me some BMac but since he took in 2014 there's been an exodus of young players and picks and cap space so we can acquire dead weight like Weber, Glencross, Gleason, Kovalchuk, etc. Also, here's the list of players drafted after the 2nd round since he took over who have played in more than 25 NHL games for the Caps: Siegenthaler (2015 2nd round, traded) and Vanecek (2014 2nd round, lost to Seattle). Not a single player drafted after the 1st round since 2009 (Orlov, 2009 2nd round) is making a contribution to this team. That's either by design because they don't value bringing along their own guys or by necessity because they suck at it but either way when you're that bad or impatient and can't fill out your roster with young, cheap homegrown talent these cap binds are bound to happen.
 
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Is "Hagelin could've done more offensively but still found ways to earn his paycheck" a valid opinion?
 
AlexBrovechkin8 said:
Not sure if you're missing my point or ignoring it. Buying in FA or making trades at the deadline occasionally makes sense to fill a specific hole but if you're doing it every year as the basis for your roster construction it's going to be tough to manage the cap and you're going to be left in vulnerable positions. And generally speaking, filling holes externally on a yearly/regular basis means you're not committed to drafting and developing or you're not good at it (or not patient enough).

Only six of the 18 non-goalie skaters that started in the playoffs last season were homegrown players: Ovi, Nick, Wilson, Kuz, Carlson, Orlov. Wilson is the youngest and most recent draft choice and he was drafted almost a decade ago in 2012. Not a single player in last year's bottom six was drafted by the Caps and only two regular players on the blueline were drafted by the Caps, and the most recent one (Orlov) was drafted in 2009. That's got to be toward the bottom of the league in terms of the split between organic vs acquired players, and that takes a toll on your salary cap and other assets.

And let's not pretend like people are getting upset over a one year splurge of free agent spending or trade acquisitions. I love me some BMac but since he took in 2014 there's been an exodus of young players and picks and cap space so we can acquire dead weight like Weber, Glencross, Gleason, Kovalchuk, etc. Also, here's the list of players drafted after the 2nd round since he took over who have played in more than 25 NHL games for the Caps: Siegenthaler (2015 2nd round, traded) and Vanecek (2014 2nd round, lost to Seattle). Not a single player drafted after the 1st round since 2009 (Orlov, 2009 2nd round) is making a contribution to this team. That's either by design because they don't value bringing along their own guys or by necessity because they suck at it but either way when you're that bad or impatient and can't fill out your roster with young, cheap homegrown talent these cap binds are bound to happen.
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Wasn't aimed specifically at you. It sounds to me like you are more upset with Ted. Your using both GMGM and GMBM events in your argument, so that would drive me to believe you don't like the direction Ted has requested things go. Either way, guys in the 2nd round+ normally don't make the NHL in the first couple years if at all. AA should be in the NHL this year along with Fever (who already has and is a R2 guy) Connor and Hendrix both look promising. Our goalie pipeline has been stellar. So yeah, valid points, our development and drafting hasn't been as good as I would like. But our focus (especially the last 4 years) has been win now, and if it cost the future so be it. We can't take our cup and now complain on how we got it.
 
It doesn't make sense for the Flyers to pay to get rid of Ghost but then pay so much for Risto. Similar players.
 
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