League News: NHL Talk - (News n' Scores n' Stuff) | 2023-24 Regular Season Edition

[ChaosLord]

Perfect end to the season.

Probably the most entertaining SCF series since the 94 Rangers / Canucks series.

I mean 2018 was great, for us, but as a series, not particularly entertaining, we largely dominated Vegas, except for Games 1 and 5.

 

[usiel]

I'd still take prime Lemieux over Gretsky/McD.

 

[DWGie26]

I'd still take prime Lemieux over Gretsky/McD.

1. Gretzky
2. Lemieux
3. McDavid

gotta win championships. You just have to!

 

[ChaosLord]

I'd still take prime Lemieux over Gretsky/McD.

Bingo.

 

[Calicaps]

I'd still take prime Lemieux over Gretsky/McD.

Sad to think what might've been for Lemieux. And I might agree but for the fact that I grew up watching Gretz first and to my little kid eyes, he was a wizard.

I’ve seen all the tapes, all of 99s highlights. Yes, he was by far the best of his time, no question.

You could do the same exercise in reverse and argue McDavid would’ve destroyed any era of hockey, no matter how physical it was, he’s simply too fast to be caught.

Gretzky played with 4 other HOF players. McDavid has Draisaitl and that’s it.

I mean, maybe. But honestly, highlights don't do Gretzky justice.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I’ve seen all the tapes, all of 99s highlights. Yes, he was by far the best of his time, no question.

You could do the same exercise in reverse and argue McDavid would’ve destroyed any era of hockey, no matter how physical it was, he’s simply too fast to be caught.

Gretzky played with 4 other HOF players. McDavid has Draisaitl and that’s it.

Gretzky helped MAKE 4 other HOFers. We’ve seen fast HOFers neutralized in the past…see Bure. None had the skill or longevity to unseat 99. McDavid won’t either.

For me, he needs at least 2-3 Cups to get into the real discussion.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I mean, maybe. But honestly, highlights don't do Gretzky justice.

bingo….

I'd still take prime Lemieux over Gretsky/McD.

Sad part is, that encompassed about 2 years….87-89…..

Longevity matters in the GOAT debate.

 

[RedRocking]

I'd still take prime Lemieux over Gretsky/McD.

Still the best player I’ve ever seen in person. My Dad’s from Pgh, so we’d see all the Pens games at Caps Center during his prime.

He just dominated the ice, with guys hanging all over him. Shame that level of play was short-lived.

Gretz is like MJ - there’s virtually nothing a modern player could do to unseat their status as THE GOAT.

 

[PlushMinus]

Mmmmm naaaah….the GOAT retired in 1999….

Mark Tinordi??

 

[usiel]

Still the best player I’ve ever seen in person. My Dad’s from Pgh, so we’d see all the Pens games at Caps Center during his prime.

He just dominated the ice, with guys hanging all over him. Shame that level of play was short-lived.

Gretz is like MJ - there’s virtually nothing a modern player could do to unseat their status as THE GOAT.

I was definitely going in the direction of like pound to pound for one season who would you roll with and that is why is said Lemieux. Always a fun conversation to have in off season debates. I started hockey watching in 1989 so did see Gretzky briefly still as an oiler before that big trade to LA. But even in the start of the 90s the earlier 80s hockey seemed so different then even the early clutch and grab era. Lemieux was just a unicorn player with the size, reach, hockey sense, and goal scoring ability.

 

[RedRocking]

I was definitely going in the direction of like pound to pound for one season who would you roll with and that is why is said Lemieux. Always a fun conversation to have in off season debates. I started hockey watching in 1989 so did see Gretzky briefly still as an oiler before that big trade to LA. But even in the start of the 90s the earlier 80s hockey seemed so different then even the early clutch and grab era. Lemieux was just a unicorn player with the size, reach, hockey sense, and goal scoring ability.

Yea, not much argument from me. Lemieux was incredible, and made a huge impression on me as a young hockey fan. Gretzky being on the west coast was harder to catch. I had this Swedish friend growing up who played hockey, and would always be telling me about Gretz’s latest exploits. But I don’t have a ton of firsthand memories until maybe his last couple years in EDM.

Anyways, Mario’s size, strength, and reach is definitely something that he has over Gretz/McDavid. And, yea he def played in an era where guys were just draped all over him. Always an interesting “what if” for Lemieux’s career production if he’d kept his health (that is perpetually litigated on the mains).

 

[Marshall]

Today a nation mourns.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Gretzky helped MAKE 4 other HOFers. We’ve seen fast HOFers neutralized in the past…see Bure. None had the skill or longevity to unseat 99. McDavid won’t either.

For me, he needs at least 2-3 Cups to get into the real discussion.

The Cups are an arbitrary barrier, and Gretzky never created other HOF players.

The Oilers won in 1990 without him, and Messier captained the Rangers to another Cup, and Gretzky never won after he left Edmonton.

Cups are also harder to win in a 32 team league compared to a 21 team league in 1984.

 

[twabby]

I wish we had GAR stats in the 1980s so we could settle the McDavid vs. Gretzky debate once and for all.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

The Cups are an arbitrary barrier, and Gretzky never created other HOF players.

The Oilers won in 1990 without him, and Messier captained the Rangers to another Cup, and Gretzky never won after he left Edmonton.

Cups are also harder to win in a 32 team league compared to a 21 team league in 1984.

Stop, you just admitted to only ever seeing just highlights….not sure you have much footing to stand on…

The league has never been more watered down than today. When McDavid Captains his 2nd Cup, and has around 1800 points, get back to me for a serious debate.

Talk to you in around 9 years when McDavid is around season 18.

 

[max21]

Oilers fans have nothing to be ashamed of, it sucks absolutely but it was almost an amazing comeback. The hardest trophy to win by far

 

[Nice]

Much easier for the Oilers fans to cope with this loss than it would have been for the Cats. Still stings but at least they fought til the end. Losing the series after 4 chances to finish is something Florida fans would've never lived down

 

[AlexModvechkin8]

Much easier for the Oilers fans to cope with this loss than it would have been for the Cats. Still stings but at least they fought til the end. Losing the series after 4 chances to finish is something Florida fans would've never lived down

True, but I also bet they feel a lot like we did after 2016-17. Just that feeling of, “was this the best shot we’re going to have with our generational player? Is it ever going to happen for us?” Draisatl is a UFA after next year, McDavid in two years. Draisatl is entering his age-29 season and McDavid his age-28 season… time is flying by and they are not young kids with all the time in the world in front of them anymore. Their cap situation is a mess and they don’t have a goalie. They are probably going to still be good enough to get back to the SCF but it feels like they’re running out of time and options.

 

[max21]

Definitely going to miss the Adidas jerseys, I’m fighting the urge to buy one more lol

 

[Nice]

True, but I also bet they feel a lot like we did after 2016-17. Just that feeling of, “was this the best shot we’re going to have with our generational player? Is it ever going to happen for us?” Draisatl is a UFA after next year, McDavid in two years. Draisatl is entering his age-29 season and McDavid his age-28 season… time is flying by and they are not young kids with all the time in the world in front of them anymore. Their cap situation is a mess and they don’t have a goalie. They are probably going to still be good enough to get back to the SCF but it feels like they’re running out of time and options.

Dark times those were. I agree, the next few seasons are do or die for the Oilers. So much has to go right to even make it this far. Just for comparisons sake I'd feel a whole lot worse getting reverse swept than losing in game 7 after 3 straight wins. I would have a hard time getting invested in the sport after that. Losing in the finals is always gonna be **** though

 

[ArmadilloThumb]

Definitely going to miss the Adidas jerseys, I’m fighting the urge to buy one more lol

I definitely like the template including the dimples (they need to change the collars), I have several Made in Canada Team Issued - both Caps and some others (for esthetic reasons).

I know the new ones will still be made in the same factory by the same people, so as long as Fanatics doesn't try and cut corners.

 

[Nice]

Bias aside, mark this down as another year without a cup raise even close to as memorable as Ovechkins. Doesn't help that ESPN completely botched this years cup raise either

 

[Hivemind]

The "silver lining" for the Oilers is that they should have another run at it in 2024-25 before having to start truly shuffling pieces. They do have a lot of free agents this year, but almost none of them are key players. They should be able to keep Foegele and Janmark if they want to (although Foegele has warranted a decent raise). Henrique is probably the most notable name they lose, and he was only a trade deadline rental. They're not going to miss Corey Perry, Connor Brown, or Sam Gagner.

Following 2025, with Draisalt (UFA) and Bouchard (RFA) up for new deals, is when the pain will really set in and they'll have to make some tougher choices.

 

[Dr John Carlson]

It's gonna be tough when Nurse and Bouchard are taking up $20 million in cap for the remainder of McDavid's prime.

I really don't think much of Bouchard. He's fantastic in the offensive zone and below par elsewhere. That he's likely going to start getting a lot of Norris buzz going forward is unfortunate.

 

[Hivemind]

It's gonna be tough when Nurse and Bouchard are taking up $20 million in cap for the remainder of McDavid's prime.

I really don't think much of Bouchard. He's fantastic in the offensive zone and below par elsewhere. That he's likely going to start getting a lot of Norris buzz going forward is unfortunate.

I think they're going to have to find a way out of the Nurse and Campbell contracts before the start of the 2025-26 season, for sure. But Nurse has a full NMC until 2027, and his back-loaded signing bonuses essentially make his contract buyout proof, so Nurse is going to be a huge problem for them. Likely going to have to pay some premium draft assets to move him to a preferred destination that he'll waive for.