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League News: NHL Talk - (News n' Scores n' Stuff) - 2020 Offseason Edition - Vol. 10

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Langway said:
Does he? Or is it just cartoonish? Tampa Bay has not lacked smaller, quick players. They made a couple of key middle six adds in Coleman & Goodrow but they're a highly skilled possession team.

Sure, rebuilding the 2007 Anaheim Ducks would be great but good luck finding Pronger and that year's checking line. As a general competitive identity it's fine but also prone to oversimplification. The very best team play hard but also fast. If he tries to make them the Kings of years past it probably won't work these days.
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I wouldn’t call Tampa’s last winner a small fast team....he was being specific in comparison to the Pens last winner. We’ll see. I think that organization improved by replacing JR.
 
Langway said:
Does he? Or is it just cartoonish? Tampa Bay has not lacked smaller, quick players. They made a couple of key middle six adds in Coleman & Goodrow but they're a highly skilled possession team.

Sure, rebuilding the 2007 Anaheim Ducks would be great but good luck finding Pronger and that year's checking line. As a general competitive identity it's fine but also prone to oversimplification. The very best team play hard but also fast. If he tries to make them the Kings of years past it probably won't work these days.
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Tampa continuously failed in the playoffs using their smaller skilled lineups. It’s not like Coleman or Goodrow are big names but the entire team clearly played much grittier during their cup run than in prior years.

I think Burke’s on the money to be honest. That Pittsburgh team is just so unbelievably soft. Montreal practically bullied them (And Carey Price of course)

The formula right now is a mix of speed and grit, and the Caps kinda started that trend in 2018.
 
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You don’t win Cups by trying to play like other teams. Trend followers don’t win. Trend setters win. It’s not like Chicago and LA played the same style when they were trading off Cups every year. They both had their own identity and knew what players to value to establish it. If you overpay to be like last year’s cup winner, you won’t go far.
 
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Hivemind said:
You don’t win Cups by trying to play like other teams. Trend followers don’t win. Trend setters win. It’s not like Chicago and LA played the same style when they were trading off Cups every year. They both had their own identity and knew what players to value to establish it. If you overpay to be like last year’s cup winner, you won’t go far.
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Meh, I think there’s an argument to be made. It’s not some kind of secret this is a copycat league, both coaches and players have admitted it.

The last 3 cup teams had similar styles. And Pittsburgh’s small/fast trend is just not going to work today. They need to adapt if they want a 4th cup for Sid. It worked when teams were trying to copy LA, but teams have since adapted. They haven’t.
 
Langway said:


This is why the Burke hire is not so bad. Not that he's entirely wrong about their tenacity to some extent. But if they, say, trade Kapanen & McCann for grit, play Ceci more and bring in Gubranson types on D then they'll likely just spin their wheels. They mainly just need better middle and lower of the lineup players period and more hungry youth at low cap hits.
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"Long pants hockey" LOL! I love Burke. Maybe not as good a GM as some people think but in so many ways, he's been a bridge between old-school hockey and the modern game. He gets the history and it's value but hasn't been a dinosaur. He's evolved. His embrace of Ovie is just one great example. He's the anti-Cherry.
 
Carlzner said:
The last 3 cup teams had similar styles. And Pittsburgh’s small/fast trend is just not going to work today. They need to adapt if they want a 4th cup for Sid. It worked when teams were trying to copy LA, but teams have since adapted. They haven’t.
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I don't think that's really their problem, though. They just don't defend well enough and haven't had the goaltending or the fortitude necessary. The blend is off but it's not just truculence they're missing. It's a lot of character and glue generally and includes issues with both their high-end players and supporting cast.

Small and fast certainly can still win. Boston has gotten pretty close with a lot of players not overly big throughout their lineup. It's more about structure, discipline and depth. There's a lot of ways to reach that goal still. Tampa checked but, I mean, they did everything well.
 
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Hivemind said:
You don’t win Cups by trying to play like other teams. Trend followers don’t win. Trend setters win. It’s not like Chicago and LA played the same style when they were trading off Cups every year. They both had their own identity and knew what players to value to establish it. If you overpay to be like last year’s cup winner, you won’t go far.
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And character.

You need your best players to be your best leaders and play prominent roles and minutes night in night out, ala Toews, Doughty, Keith, Kopitar, Brown, etc.

The Caps would have at least one more Stanley Cup if its' stars weren't immature.
 
Carlzner said:
Meh, I think there’s an argument to be made. It’s not some kind of secret this is a copycat league, both coaches and players have admitted it.

The last 3 cup teams had similar styles. And Pittsburgh’s small/fast trend is just not going to work today. They need to adapt if they want a 4th cup for Sid. It worked when teams were trying to copy LA, but teams have since adapted. They haven’t.
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The copycats don't win. There are plenty of them around the league for sure, but the teams that buy into their identity are the ones that win.

Tampa certainly didn't copy the Blues. I don't buy Tampa as a "heavy" team by any stretch of the mind. They're a puck possession team that blends skill and some size (particularly on the back end). But they won with Nikita Kucherov, Brayden Point, Tyler Johnson, and Yanni Gourde among their forward ranks. That's a lot of "small/fast" and not a lot of bruisers. Even on their blueline, guys like Coburn and Schenn weren't even dressed regularly anymore. Tampa had size, but size wasn't Tampa's identity. They're more akin to the Detroit teams of the mid-2000s than they are to the Blues of 2019.

I don't buy that a style "just isn't going to work anymore" after only 3 seasons. The 3 Cup winners previous to this stretch were all skill-oriented teams (Blackhawks, Penguins, Penguins), did big teams "just not work anymore" then? Pittsburgh won back-to-back Cups playing that style, and if anything, it was Rutherford's insistence on adding size that has hurt them. He was obsessed with adding players like Gudbranson, Oleksiak, Bjugstad, Matheson, Jankowski, Ceci, and Tanev to their line-up and it certainly hasn't got them any closer to the Cup than before.
 
Carlzner said:
The formula right now is a mix of speed and grit, and the Caps kinda started that trend in 2018.
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I think that has always been the right formula, the Caps most certainly didn't start it, they just finally understood it and found the right mix. Go back 20 or 40 years and unbalanced teams did not win many championships. The balance between grit and speed/talent shifts slightly all the time, but its not a trend, its a matter of finding the right mix for a particular roster. The Pens right now have no grit, and Burke seems to understand that.
 
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Getting really chippy between the Bruins and the Rangers.

That kid Frederic is a little POS. Runs his mouth constantly with his high pitched, Shoresy voice. Hope he gets a beating soon.

I guess it's the only way he's keeping his place on the Bruins roster. 1st round pick - 30 career games, 1 assist to his name.
 
AussieCapsFan said:
Getting really chippy between the Bruins and the Rangers.

That kid Frederic is a little POS. Runs his mouth constantly with his high pitched, Shoresy voice. Hope he gets a beating soon.

I guess it's the only way he's keeping his place on the Bruins roster. 1st round pick - 30 career games, 1 assist to his name.
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I want to see that little Lemieux punk get his ass beaten. If he and Marchand can manage to K.O. each other simultaneously, then this would officially be the best game of the season. I guess Lemieux is evidence that sleaze is hereditary...
 
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Eirikrautha said:
I want to see that little Lemieux punk get his ass beaten. If he and Marchand can manage to K.O. each other simultaneously, then this would officially be the best game of the season. I guess Lemieux is evidence that sleaze is hereditary...
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Yeah I can't stand Lemieux either. I just hate the Bruins and this Frederic kid is adding fuel to the fire :laugh:
 
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kicksavedave said:
The Pens right now have no grit, and Burke seems to understand that.
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Tanev is not bad in that regard. He's been underutilized by Sullivan I think. Crosby isn't going to demolish guys but he's an alpha competitor usually (though his defensive game lately has sagged much like everyone else's). Zucker typically has been a dogged player. Ditto Guentzel. Again, not overly physical but to me tenacity and pursuit are more important.

Aside from Dumoulin and Marino lately their blueline has been the biggest issue IMO. That and perhaps coaching in Sullivan not being able to get them to play a little more safe/defensive. My main issue in underlining grit is the tendency to just make token additions for the sake of it. It led Rutherford to the Reaves, Gudbranson and Oleksiak additions (though Oleksiak was at least a pretty good player). Getting those sorts of intangibles and leaders at the top or middle of the lineup isn't easy. I'd losing Bonino & Hagelin have been just as important as age or getting somewhat softer. Hornqvist is also a low-key loss when it comes to the dirty areas and on their PP.

Burke isn't wrong but locking in on those specific qualities can lead to inflating borderline players and missing out on better overall quality. If they had better defensive quality and the sort of depth they used to have I don't think these stylistic deficits would be getting keyed in on so much.
 
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Rough 27th birthday for Alex Galchenyuk. Traded to Carolina the day after his birthday and then immediately placed on waivers. He's a former 3rd overall pick and still only 27 so maybe someone gives him another chance but it's a pretty stunning fall for a guy who scored 30 goals in his age-21 season and looked primed to be a future star.

 
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AlexBrovechkin8 said:
Rough 27th birthday for Alex Galchenyuk. Traded to Carolina the day after his birthday and then immediately placed on waivers. He's a former 3rd overall pick and still only 27 so maybe someone gives him another chance but it's a pretty stunning fall for a guy who scored 30 goals in his age-21 season and looked primed to be a future star.

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stunning indeed...career looks over.
 
Melkor said:
James Neal is on waivers. Man I feel old when I read this typa news. Seems like yesterday the guy was top-5 snipers in the world..long gone times.
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lol. Give yourself a few years. I clearly remember watching Larry Bird leading Indiana State to that title game vs Magic and the Spartans.

I clearly remember watching Roger Staubach vs Terry Bradshaw in the 79 Super Bowl.

I clearly remember watching (in person) Paul Kariya in his one season at U Maine vs my UNH Wildcats.

age catches up to you fast
 
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Remember when Danny DeKeyser was the NCAA free agent steal of the year back in 2014? Played himself to a $5M contract, now on waivers from one of the worst teams in the league.
I also remember Montreal fans raving about how good and important Paul Byron was. :laugh:

A lot of downward trenders on waviers today
 
AlexBrovechkin8 said:
Rough 27th birthday for Alex Galchenyuk. Traded to Carolina the day after his birthday and then immediately placed on waivers. He's a former 3rd overall pick and still only 27 so maybe someone gives him another chance but it's a pretty stunning fall for a guy who scored 30 goals in his age-21 season and looked primed to be a future star.

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Him and Yakupov started out pretty fine. Then Edmonton got that weird coach who killed all Yakupov's momentum and confidence and ended his career while also beefing with Hall and saying some stupid shit in the locker room that Edmonton's media was laughing over, I don't remember what exactly that was..Weird how one incompetent guy can ruin a player this bad. Galchenyuk kinda his own enemy, I remember him firing Larionov as his agent because he didn't like how he represented his value in contract negotiations. Now his value is negative. Sad. Remember those two being buddies and tearing OHL apart like it was yesterday. Now both are an afterthought .
 
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