Olympics: NHL participation in the 2022 Olympics

[93LEAFS]

A successful employer will have to consider their workers needs and wants and prioritize them. Players want to go to olympics, players should go to olympics. That simple. They do the work.

I'm trying to understand the perspective you are coming from with these ultra corporatist takes, almost like a dystopian fantasy but on the side of the machine. It's quite odd to me. Was Mr. Burns the most likeable character in Simpsons?

I'm failing to see how someone can't grasp when you are paid 7 figures a year you give up some of your employment rights. It's completely devoid of how the world actually works. And, if you consider NHL players not being able to play in the Olympics because they make 7 figures a year dystopian. Its not ultra corporatist, it's knowledge of how the world actually works. You make choices in life that enable or limit your options. If these guys hate it so much they can't play in the Olympics go play for 6 figures in a league controlled by the IIHF.

I mean seriously, you are delusional on this topic. You are calling making 7 figures a year to play a game, but not being able to play in the Olympics limiting of someone's necessities.

You are acting like this is the NHL equivalent of Sophie's Choice.

 

[Czechboy]

It obviously is a choice. He signed a contract to abide by the rules set for by the NHLPA/NHL. Just because something doesn't happen, doesn't mean the person lacks free will. He chooses to play in the NHL for millions of dollars where his availability to play internationally is going to be limited. If he really valued international hockey so highly he can go play in an IIHF league. But, I doubt he cares enough about international hockey to dramatically reduce his wages.

So if a Canadian boy wants to win gold for Canada at the Olympics (let's use Bedard), they should opt out of the draft and turn pro in Europe. Also, if an amazing Russian (let's use Michkov) wants to represent his country, he should stay in the KHL forever. Cool.

 

[93LEAFS]

So if a Canadian boy wants to win gold for Canada at the Olympics (let's use Bedard), they should opt out of the draft and turn pro in Europe. Also, if an amazing Russian (let's use Michkov) wants to represent his country, he should stay in the KHL forever. Cool.

Yup. Not the NHL's job to give corrupt organizations like the IOC free labor.

 

[Marioesque]

Yup. Not the NHL's job to give corrupt organizations like the IOC free labor.

The players want to go, nobody cares about what the IOC wants so it's irrelevant in this discussion.


What you're REALLY saying is, it doesn't matter what the players want because the franchises own them. You do not want them to have the opportunity to represent their country, because they are sold to a corporation like you are and they should like it and accept it. Right? Right.

 

[Marioesque]

Except they are limited of what they can do outside of specific jobs for their firms. When you are paid massive salaries, it limits your ability to work outside of those constructs.

You seem to just glance over people who get paid millions of dollars a year tend to have strict employment contracts. And, then are calling it a dystopian corporate future that ignores people's necessities because they can't provide you with best on best hockey. This isn't some ultracorpalist future, this is the reality of earning high-wages.

F1 drivers drive Rallye all the time even though their employers don't want them to. Multimillionaires do what they want to do, first and foremost. Especially athletes and performers.

 

[93LEAFS]

The players want to go, nobody cares about what the IOC wants so it's irrelevant in this discussion.


What you're REALLY saying is, it doesn't matter what the players want because the franchises own them. You do not want them to have the opportunity to represent their country, because they are sold to a corporation like you are and they should like it and accept it. Right? Right.

If they don't like it they have the freedom to take lower-paying hockey jobs elsewhere. That still will keep them high-up among the 90th percentile in the world when it comes to income. If they want NHL paycheque, they accept the terms negotiated by the NHL/NHLPA. They aren't owned. They have free choice. They chose to play in the NHL and accept those salaries. If they don't like it, they can go play in a league that will let them play internationally whenever they want like the SHL or NLA.

If you can't grasp the concept that with 7 figures salaries you have to sacrifice things you want, go move to the utopia that provides that, because it doesn't exist unless you create your own business and can generate that type of income.

 

[cowboy82nd]

Marchand be like

You can not be serious here.

I’ am serious.

 

[vorky]

@93LEAFS "the existing model of capitalism has run its course"

 

[93LEAFS]

@93LEAFS "the existing model of capitalism has run its course"

I don't think this is a politics board, and I don't really plan on debating Putin and his policies here.

 

[cowboy82nd]

That is not knowledge of how the world actually works. More like a libertarian capitalist caricature of how you think it works. The best companies today where the best go to work, are extremely focused on their workers because they understand that they don't have a business without them.

It's a small town, small business mindset to try and control your workers time against their wishes, especially when they are already multimillionaires and not desperate.

They made it a point in the last CBA and now NHL used a loophole to try and avoid it, but the players, the product itself, are not happy with it. And neither is the global audience. Just a few franchise fans here cheering for The Man.

If they really acted like you want them to act, there WOULD be that competing league because NHL would be driving players away, more modern european organizations would understand the needs of the worker and provide those conditions.

You could probably run a mean sweatshop somewhere. Making jerseys for that euro league

What the hell? Cheering for the man? What a crock! I was just pointing out that players CONTROL who they work for and what they can and can not do. It’s called a contract. Don’t act like they don’t know what they are signing when they put pen to paper.

 

[Marioesque]

What the hell? Cheering for the man? What a crock! I was just pointing out that players CONTROL who they work for and what they can and can not do. It’s called a contract. Don’t act like they don’t know what they are signing when they put pen to paper.

Don't act like they didn't promise olympics in last CBA and now used covid to weasel out of it. Yes, the players knew they wanted to go and wanted it in the CBA. That's why it was there.

So are you happy that NHL managed to fool them to believe them in negotiations? NHL had the opportunity of respecting the players wish but they pulled the rug from under it as fast as they could. Marchand just pointed this out. There's no reason why the NHL couldn't work with the taxi squad while olympics is underway but still they aren't allowing the chosen ones to go. And that decision should be left to the players, now that the business continuance plan (taxi squad) is in place.

 

[93LEAFS]

Don't act like they didn't promise olympics in last CBA and now used covid to weasel out of it. Yes, the players knew they wanted to go and wanted it in the CBA. That's why it was there.

So are you happy that NHL managed to fool them to believe them in negotiations? NHL had the opportunity of respecting the players wish but they pulled the rug from under it as fast as they could. Marchand just pointed this out. There's no reason why the NHL couldn't work with the taxi squad while olympics is underway but still they aren't allowing the chosen ones to go. And that decision should be left to the players, now that the business continuance plan (taxi squad) is in place.

Yes, let's risk playoff revenue and injuries so our stars can play in a different hockey tournament that we see no economic gain from.

Yeah, I'm sure the NHL just wanted to cancel 70 games, have capacity limited at games just so they could back out of the Olympics. That's entirely their plan.

 

[Marioesque]

Yes, let's risk playoff revenue and injuries so our stars can play in a different hockey tournament that we see no economic gain from.

Yeah, I'm sure the NHL just wanted to cancel 70 games, have capacity limited at games just so they could back out of the Olympics. That's entirely their plan.

We have established that you can't quantify the economic gain from it.

I am not suggesting any plans like that but they did not try to make it happen for players and announced withdrawal without considering the option they then came up with a week later.

With the rule change, the players could go and taxi squad would replace lost man hours. This would give opportunity to taxi squad players to show what they got and maybe earn roster spot.

 

[93LEAFS]

We have established that you can't quantify the economic gain from it.

I am not suggesting any plans like that but they did not try to make it happen for players and announced withdrawal without considering the option they then came up with a week later.

With the rule change, the players could go and taxi squad would replace lost man hours

Yeah, a taxi-squad really replaces Matthews, Marner, Rielly, Nylander, Campbell, Kase, Kampf and Tavares (all guys who potentially would be at the olympics). Do you realize how much revenue just 3 home playoff games in Toronto generates for the team? Do you think the consumers who pay for these exorbitant fees for season tickets would be happy with owners for this?

In a business if an economic gain can't be quantified, then it likely is insignificant.

 

[Marioesque]

Yeah, a taxi-squad really replaces Matthews, Marner, Rielly, Nylander, Campbell, Kase, Kampf and Tavares (all guys who potentially would be at the olympics). Do you realize how much revenue just 3 home playoff games in Toronto generates for the team? Do you think the consumers who pay for these exorbitant fees for season tickets would be happy with owners for this?

Well there we go. Finally got to the bottom of it.

You would prioritize the season ticket owner, over the wishes of the employee that brings those season ticket owners in the first place.

The season ticket owners minor inconvenience (having to watch a prospect replacing a star for a month) is a bigger issue in your opinion, than the bad will it creates among the staff and majority of hockey fans around the world.

That's some elitist s*** right there. Because rich people would need to see a few games of slightly reduced quality production, the rest of the world and the performers can't have their month once in 4 years. Can't have that, because it would be too much to ask from season ticket owners of a few select teams.

 

[93LEAFS]

Well there we go. Finally got to the bottom of it.

You would prioritize the season ticket owner, over the wishes of the employee that brings those season ticket owners in the first place.

The season ticket owners minor inconvenience (having to watch a prospect replacing a star for a month) is a bigger issue in your opinion, than the bad will it creates among the staff and majority of hockey fans around the world.

That's some elitist s*** right there. Because rich people would need to see a few games of slightly reduced quality production, the rest of the world and the performers can't have their month once in 4 years. Can't have that, because it would be too much to ask from season ticket owners of a few select teams.

Figure out a way to entice them with salaries that reflect this if you want international hockey. Why risk offending your regulars for people who don't contribute meaningful revenue? The key to a business is keeping the people who provide the lifeblood of your revenue happy. Not some hypothetical maybes.

 

[Marioesque]

Figure out a way to entice them with salaries that reflect this if you want international hockey. Why risk offending your regulars for people who don't contribute meaningful revenue? The key to a business is keeping the people who provide the lifeblood of your revenue happy. Not some hypothetical maybes.

Yes and those people are your employees. The players are the product. You first need the product before you have a business. The product is the lifeline and you prioritize THAT

So when they say they go, they go.

It shouldn't offend any regulars to get a prospect up for a month but if it does, it's a better idea to offend them than the product

 

[93LEAFS]

Yes and those people are your employees. The players are the product. You first need the product before you have a business. The product is the lifeline and you prioritize THAT

No, your lifeline is having consumers, and you cater to them. In this case, the major ones being season ticket holders. And, the amount of players who go to the Olympics is a relative minority and doesn't bring significant economic gain to the league to raise salaries, so, its not like that much of the players union actually cares.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

You should also tell Brad Marchand to give his head a shake

would Marchand want to quarantine in a communist country for at least 3 weeks if he tests positive? Plenty of his Olympic teammates and from other countries have expressed their concern over the covid rules the Chinese Government has put in place. My sympathies for fans for not getting to watch NHL players in the Olympics is zero.

 

[Silky Johnson]

I don't mind these things but here are some of the arguments...

Always in Canada in sold out arena's full of Canadians
Canada doesn't have to travel (pretty sure half the teams at the last World Cup were in Europe and then had to fly over to play Canada in Canada - that is one heck of a road trip).
Only Canadian Refs
August is when Euro Leagues are getting going with training camps (the Euro NHL stars are still in Europe for the most part).

Something tells me if the Russians brought back the Isvestia cup and invited all the world's best with these premises:

Canada/US will be in a pool with Swiss and Germany - all these games will be played in Toronto.
Russia/Czechs/Finns and Swedes in Moscow

Once round robin is done... Canada/US (let's assume they win that pool) have to fly to Moscow to a sold out arena full of Russians/Euros and all the refs are Russians from the KHL.

No way in hell would the NHL or Canada agree to this. But that is the World Cup format.lol

The big difference here is that Canada doesn't have a proven history of state sanctioned cheating at international sports where as Russia does.

That being said I would like to see the NHL partner with non-KHL Euro leagues to create a properly constructed World Cup of Hockey.

 

[Deplorable Lenny]

Wayne Gretzky doesnt agree.

Saw yesterday a documentation about the Czech's win in Nagano. For example Theo Fleury was involved. He said that he cried when he got the nomination to represent Canada. It was a big thing for him to belong to the 23 best players Canada had 1998. Maybe we underestimate what it means for the players.
Or i think many will remember Gretzky, sitting minutes alone on the bench after the defeat. Im sure he would exchange a Stanley cup against the win 1998.

Theo Fleury was probably one of the most emotional players on and off the ice in the 30 years I've been watching hockey. Not saying thats a good thing or a bad thing, but him crying about making the team doesn't move my OPINION one way or another.

I would bet players cry happy and sad when they get drafted, make the league, get signed, win a big game, lose a big game, get traded ect ect ect So I am not really sure what your point is.

As for Gretzky, do you watch when teams lose the Stanley Cup. They lay against the boards extremely emotional, defeated with a stone faced look holding back tears while the other team hoists the cup. Did you see how Greztky looked when the Oilers lost to the Islanders in 83 finals? Very similar to how he looks in your photo.

Players play for 9 months to win the Stanley Cup, they play for 2-3 weeks to win a gold medal
I have no idea if Greztky would trade one of his 4 cups for a gold medal win and neither do you.

Also what the Gold medal means or doesn't mean for the players has absolutely nothing to do with my post.

Such a strange response from you. I don't really get your point TBH

 

[wetcoast]

The players want to go, nobody cares about what the IOC wants so it's irrelevant in this discussion.

Some players want to go, you are really overlooking the pandemic here or downplaying it to say the least.

don Fehr made the statment for the players union, the fact that 100% of the players don't agree doesn't change that fact.

Also Marchand is rather late to the party here as the facts (ie the possible severity of the virus has been somewhat downgraded)

What you're REALLY saying is, it doesn't matter what the players want because the franchises own them. You do not want them to have the opportunity to represent their country, because they are sold to a corporation like you are and they should like it and accept it. Right? Right.

No one is forcing any player to sign an NHL contract.

Marchand and many players who have made a ton of money knew the possibility of the NHL not going to the Olympics.

Like it has been stated before he could have, if playing for his country the end all and be all, chosen to play a year in Europe or taken the year off like the choice 2 of his team mates last season made.

Your portrayal of Marchand being a victim of corporate greed or capitalism or whatever is comical at best and insulting to those who have rather limited choices in work and life.

 

[Mathieukferland]

would Marchand want to quarantine in a communist country for at least 3 weeks if he tests positive? Plenty of his Olympic teammates and from other countries have expressed their concern over the covid rules the Chinese Government has put in place. My sympathies for fans for not getting to watch NHL players in the Olympics is zero.

This has been stated many times earlier in this thread that there would have been no quarantine for positive players, the IIHF had systems in place to get them out of the country

 

[Marioesque]

No, your lifeline is having consumers, and you cater to them. In this case, the major ones being season ticket holders. And, the amount of players who go to the Olympics is a relative minority and doesn't bring significant economic gain to the league to raise salaries, so, its not like that much of the players union actually cares.

If you don't have a product you don't have consumers.

You're putting the cart before the horse.

Do you have season tickets or why do you think they own the players?

 

[93LEAFS]

If you don't have a product you don't have consumers.

You're putting the cart before the horse.

And players don't have a paycheque without season ticket holders and tv revenue.

But, cry more about how you don't get best on best. I'll wait for the first NHLer to leave so he is guaranteed to play in the Olympics. But, I guess none will, they prefer the paycheck rather than the training camps and conditions of the KHL or playing for significantly less in the SHL or NLA. They all have known not going to the Olympics is a possibility for 5 years. Yet they constantly re-sign.