NHL Mega-Mock Draft Reboot - Discussion / Draft Thread - PHASE FOURTEEN! Part One!

[Hollywood Cannon]

Don't we have enough talk about the Grateful Dead in every other thread on this board?

 

[DancingPanther]

I’m a big prog fan and love long songs but bands can get carried away.
Case in point:
Yes: Tales from Topographic Oceans

As far as jam bands, I dig the Dead but can usually do without the overblown drums/space jams. Those were basically the time for a bathroom break and to grab snacks and another beer.

I’m a big prog fan and love long songs but bands can get carried away.
Case in point:
Yes: Tales from Topographic Oceans

As far as jam bands, I dig the Dead but can usually do without the overblown drums/space jams. Those were basically the time for a bathroom break and to grab snacks and another beer.

Sure, unless you're high or on shrooms.

But yes I agree with you on Drums/Space. That being said, [REDACTED] did the same thing on half their albums and no one complains. It's the weird double standards that annoy me. Not to mention the dead did a space jam for 15 mins of a 4 and a half hour show. If it was 45 minutes of off and on space out of 2 hours, then yeah I'd complain.

And if I didn't know better, I'd say the space jams were partially meant for a beer/bathroom break anyway since they usually were about 2/3rds of the way through the shows

 

[mja]

Sure, unless you're high or on shrooms.

But yes I agree with you on Drums/Space. That being said, [REDACTED] did the same thing on half their albums and no one complains. It's the weird double standards that annoy me. Not to mention the dead did a space jam for 15 mins of a 4 and a half hour show. If it was 45 minutes of off and on space out of 2 hours, then yeah I'd complain.

And if I didn't know better, I'd say the space jams were partially meant for a beer/bathroom break anyway since they usually were about 2/3rds of the way through the shows

We're not picking bands, you can turn off your Ranch filter.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

We're not picking bands, you can turn off your Ranch filter.

No he cannot.

 

[DancingPanther]

Don't we have enough talk about the Grateful Dead in every other thread on this board?

Really? Every other thread is just arguing with JTown (I think) and Deadhead (name a coincidence) about how the Flyers are among the worst managed franchises in all of sports.

 

[mja]

No he cannot.

Boo! I don't even think he's right but I can't figure out the band.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Really? Every other thread is just arguing with JTown (I think) and Deadhead (name a coincidence) about how the Flyers are among the worst managed franchises in all of sports.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

They hardly even get any airplay, aside from DMB or GD's Touch of Grey, so people have to specifically seek that shit out. Just goes to show you how much damage drugs can really do.

Member Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Combine them and multiply by 100 trillion billion, and you would be somewhere close to the temperature of my feelings about that "song." This is no reflection on your good self, but that f***ing war crime of an abortion noise should be scoured from human memory and everyone responsible for it tortured for all eternity.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Or is it the fact that people just want 5 minute songs because the typical attention span can't handle anything past American Pie or Hey Jude? You can thank radio culture for that

I mean, this would really be an underestimation of people's intelligence and ability to think through something thoroughly. Personally, I couldn't give a shit how long a song is - I love epic songs and I love tiny wee little bitty short songs. The length has nothing to do with it, and I would be shocked if even a small minority of the many millions who hate that band care about the length either. I wouldn't make any grand sweeping assumptions about you for liking them. I might joke with you about it (e.g. about the weed), but I wouldn't actually think there is anything wrong with you or your ability to discern what is good from what is terrible just because you like them.

There's a very particular kind of thing that makes a jam band "a jam band" that goes beyond just jamming. I doubt I could explain it anymore because it has just been too long since I thought about it, but it's another one of those things where "you know it when you see/hear it." For example, "Ripple" is a total jam band song. I don't know whether you would consider that or their playing on it "jamming," but all of us who came to our opinions about music during like the 80s and 90s would consider that "a jam band song." And I can't actually put into words how much I loathe that "song." Posting it on here would destroy the internet.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

I mean, this would really be an underestimation of people's intelligence and ability to think through something thoroughly. Personally, I couldn't give a shit how long a song is - I love epic songs and I love tiny wee little bitty short songs. The length has nothing to do with it, and I would be shocked if even a small minority of the many millions who hate that band care about the length either. I wouldn't make any grand sweeping assumptions about you for liking them. I might joke with you about it (e.g. about the weed), but I wouldn't actually think there is anything wrong with you or your ability to discern what is good from what is terrible just because you like them.

There's a very particular kind of thing that makes a jam band "a jam band" that goes beyond just jamming. I doubt I could explain it anymore because it has just been too long since I thought about it, but it's another one of those things where "you know it when you see/hear it." For example, "Ripple" is a total jam band song. I don't know whether you would consider that or their playing on it "jamming," but all of us who came to our opinions about music during like the 80s and 90s would consider that "a jam band song." And I can't actually put into words how much I loathe that "song." Posting it on here would destroy the internet.

So you're saying it's more about the motion of the ocean?

 

[mja]

So you're saying it's more about the motion of the ocean?

Actually, yes, that's really what it's about in the end. It's not the length that matters, it's what is happening or not happening in the song. I'm a pretty massive [Ranch] fan, and most of my favorites from them clock in over 10 minutes long, but it's 10+ minutes of sonic attack, quiet/loud dynamics, contrasting textures, melodies, and hooks. Jam bands are a bunch of guys with no street ear making utterly sexless music. The length just compounds it. They're the Chuck Fletcher of the music world.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Actually, yes, that's really what it's about in the end. It's not the length that matters, it's what is happening or not happening in the song. I'm a pretty massive [Ranch] fan, and most of my favorites from them clock in over 10 minutes long, but it's 10+ minutes of sonic attack, quiet/loud dynamics, contrasting textures, melodies, and hooks. Jam bands are a bunch of guys with no street ear making utterly sexless music. The length just compounds it. They're the Chuck Fletcher of the music world.

And total self-indulgence, that's what does it for me. I'm 100% sure it's great fun for the band members to "jam" in the way jam bands jam, but there are other ways to jam that actually provide something for the listener as well. I really hate them lol. I can't wait until myself or someone else picks [RANCH] - I am going to die laughing

 

[pit]

Or is it the fact that people just want 5 minute songs because the typical attention span can't handle anything past American Pie or Hey Jude? You can thank radio culture for that

It's not a question of song length, it's about progression.

In literary terms, I have no issue reading books of exceptional length. However, when those exceptionally long books waste excessive amounts of prose on details that neither advance the narrative or have a thematic relevance, I get weary. It's artistic masturbation that does absolutely nothing for me. I'm not a stickler for particular structure in writing, but I like something that creates shape, keeps the thing going and growing in a way that ties together eventually. I can listen to symphonies across multiple movements happily and those are hours so it's not an attention span issue.

Endless noodling that really goes nowhere isn't my thing.

 

[ajgoal]

It's not a question of song length, it's about progression.

 

[Hurricane28]

I just woke up, give me a few minutes

 

[DancingPanther]

I mean, this would really be an underestimation of people's intelligence and ability to think through something thoroughly. Personally, I couldn't give a shit how long a song is - I love epic songs and I love tiny wee little bitty short songs. The length has nothing to do with it, and I would be shocked if even a small minority of the many millions who hate that band care about the length either. I wouldn't make any grand sweeping assumptions about you for liking them. I might joke with you about it (e.g. about the weed), but I wouldn't actually think there is anything wrong with you or your ability to discern what is good from what is terrible just because you like them.

There's a very particular kind of thing that makes a jam band "a jam band" that goes beyond just jamming. I doubt I could explain it anymore because it has just been too long since I thought about it, but it's another one of those things where "you know it when you see/hear it." For example, "Ripple" is a total jam band song. I don't know whether you would consider that or their playing on it "jamming," but all of us who came to our opinions about music during like the 80s and 90s would consider that "a jam band song." And I can't actually put into words how much I loathe that "song." Posting it on here would destroy the internet.

Sweeping generalizations like

Jam bands are a bunch of guys with no street ear making utterly sexless music.

Anyway cap, the length of song comment wasn't directed at anyone here, especially you, just the average American who needs the proverbial keys jingled in front of them. We've talked about this, from movies to football broadcasts, the average attention span needs to be kept by explosions or overproduced graphics of useless stats read off by Cris Collinsworth. And sometimes, face melting guitar solos. I'm not saying you or anyone here is of this ilk. In fact I trust no one here is. So if you or anyone took it that way, sorry

Anyway, Starberry doesn't like Bob Dylan's sound but recognizes him as influential. The flip side is saying f*** all jam bands or calling Phil Lesh (one of psychedelic/prog rock's most influential bassists) and Jerry Garcia (one of the premier guitarists in music) both endless noodlers with no direction making sexless music, along with every other "jammer". This is obtuse and is itself a sweeping generalization. I remember being blasted for liking Pigeons Playing Ping Pong some time ago by multiple people, but the first thing that stuck out was the technical work of the drummer on his hi hat. To me, the individual work on each instrument is the fun of music, not necessarily the progression of the piece (unless that's the point, like Tommy by The Who or Who Are You for example). This is accentuated by jamming and is why I like it so much. Related to this, as a musician, is the fun of vicariously jamming with world class talents.

Not liking the motion of the ocean is exactly the type of subjectivity that makes music great, but calling the entire ocean shit is frustrating to hear to some magnitude. I said earlier Nicki Minaj offers no musical redeeming qualities to me, and I refuse to believe anyone here includes someone like Jerry Garcia in the no musical redeeming qualities category. That's really all I ask, is to recognize the talent instead of saying f*** jam bands and dogpiling on anyone who likes them. This happens in real life too, not just here, and I know it's probably pretty ridiculous of me to go on this rant but it really is exhausting. It's the only music where people are immediately ripped for liking it.

This will be the last I say of this as to not derail anything. Everyone make your spite picks with full spite by all means

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Sweeping generalizations like

Anyway cap, the length of song comment wasn't directed at anyone here, especially you, just the average American who needs the proverbial keys jingled in front of them. We've talked about this, from movies to football broadcasts, the average attention span needs to be kept by explosions or overproduced graphics of useless stats read off by Cris Collinsworth. And sometimes, face melting guitar solos. I'm not saying you or anyone here is of this ilk. In fact I trust no one here is. So if you or anyone took it that way, sorry

Anyway, Starberry doesn't like Bob Dylan's sound but recognizes him as influential. The flip side is saying f*** all jam bands or calling Phil Lesh (one of psychedelic/prog rock's most influential bassists) and Jerry Garcia (one of the premier guitarists in music) both endless noodlers with no direction making sexless music, along with every other "jammer". This is obtuse and is itself a sweeping generalization. I remember being blasted for liking Pigeons Playing Ping Pong some time ago by multiple people, but the first thing that stuck out was the technical work of the drummer on his hi hat. To me, the individual work on each instrument is the fun of music, not necessarily the progression of the piece (unless that's the point, like Tommy by The Who or Who Are You for example). This is accentuated by jamming and is why I like it so much.

Not liking the motion of the ocean is exactly the type of subjectivity that makes music great, but calling the entire ocean shit is frustrating to hear to some magnitude. I said earlier Nicki Minaj offers no musical redeeming qualities to me, and I refuse to believe anyone here includes someone like Jerry Garcia in the no musical redeeming qualities category. That's really all I ask, is to recognize the talent instead of saying f*** jam bands and dogpiling on anyone who likes them. This happens in real life too, not just here, and I know it's probably pretty ridiculous of me to go on this rant but it really is exhausting. It's the only music where people are immediately ripped for liking it.

This will be the last I say of this as to not detail anything. Everyone make your spite picks with full spite by all means

I hear you, but to a huge extent this is just the way we talk about music (and other subjective stuff). And neither I nor anyone else meant to dogpile on you or anyone else, and I think I kind of addressed that I wasn't saying anything against you. It's just a different approach. I am sleepy as balls at the moment, but if I find the words and the energy later I'll explain it better.

 

[DancingPanther]

I hear you, but to a huge extent this is just the way we talk about music (and other subjective stuff). And neither I nor anyone else meant to dogpile on you or anyone else, and I think I kind of addressed that I wasn't saying anything against you. It's just a different approach. I am sleepy as balls at the moment, but if I find the words and the energy later I'll explain it better.

it's all good ilubb

 

[mja]

Sweeping generalizations like

Anyway cap, the length of song comment wasn't directed at anyone here, especially you, just the average American who needs the proverbial keys jingled in front of them. We've talked about this, from movies to football broadcasts, the average attention span needs to be kept by explosions or overproduced graphics of useless stats read off by Cris Collinsworth. And sometimes, face melting guitar solos. I'm not saying you or anyone here is of this ilk. In fact I trust no one here is. So if you or anyone took it that way, sorry

Anyway, Starberry doesn't like Bob Dylan's sound but recognizes him as influential. The flip side is saying f*** all jam bands or calling Phil Lesh (one of psychedelic/prog rock's most influential bassists) and Jerry Garcia (one of the premier guitarists in music) both endless noodlers with no direction making sexless music, along with every other "jammer". This is obtuse and is itself a sweeping generalization. I remember being blasted for liking Pigeons Playing Ping Pong some time ago by multiple people, but the first thing that stuck out was the technical work of the drummer on his hi hat. To me, the individual work on each instrument is the fun of music, not necessarily the progression of the piece (unless that's the point, like Tommy by The Who or Who Are You for example). This is accentuated by jamming and is why I like it so much. Related to this, as a musician, is the fun of vicariously jamming with world class talents.

Not liking the motion of the ocean is exactly the type of subjectivity that makes music great, but calling the entire ocean shit is frustrating to hear to some magnitude. I said earlier Nicki Minaj offers no musical redeeming qualities to me, and I refuse to believe anyone here includes someone like Jerry Garcia in the no musical redeeming qualities category. That's really all I ask, is to recognize the talent instead of saying f*** jam bands and dogpiling on anyone who likes them. This happens in real life too, not just here, and I know it's probably pretty ridiculous of me to go on this rant but it really is exhausting. It's the only music where people are immediately ripped for liking it.

This will be the last I say of this as to not derail anything. Everyone make your spite picks with full spite by all means

I un-ironically enjoy [Ranch], a band that played for years with a small drum set and an untuned guitar, and who once quipped, "you do need cords to plug the guitar in but that's pretty much it." Incidentally, that band also released a 10 track album in the 90's with an opener that stretched out over 60 minutes followed by 9 other songs all under 90 seconds each. Technical musicianship is not something I typically focus on, and certainly not how a guy plays the hi hat. I also won't deny any of these guys' talent, they're all far more talented musicians than [Ranch], but I do think they're far lesser artists. I just have a different notion of what I want music to be. I'm more about a good hook or the use of noise and different tones to create interesting textures. For example, Videotape's time signature trickery is certainly interesting, but what pulls me in is the lonesome melody (poor) Thom Yorke is crooning over it. All of this is a rather longwinded way of saying, don't mind me when I slag jam bands.







They do suck though.

 

[Hurricane28]

A lot of good names have gone off the board early. Might be a bit of a reach here but Dave Matthews and Kid Rock going off the board killed us.

On guitar but also contributing to vocals...Ed Sheeran.

@GKJ

 

[BiggE]

A lot of good names have gone off the board early. Might be a bit of a reach here but Dave Matthews and Kid Rock going off the board killed us.

On guitar but also contributing to vocals...Ed Sheeran.

@GKJ

Bonus points because he’s a ginger, just like @Striiker

 

[JojoTheWhale]

@DancingPanther I'm not a huge Dead fan, but I will absolutely die on the hill of "Attics of My Life" being a flawless piece of music.

I try pretty hard to be able to appreciate every genre, even if my conclusion is that something is well done, but ultimately not for me.

 

[Striiker]

@DancingPanther I'm not a huge Dead fan

Saving this.

 

[DancingPanther]

@DancingPanther I'm not a huge Dead fan, but I will absolutely die on the hill of "Attics of My Life" being a flawless piece of music.

I try pretty hard to be able to appreciate every genre, even if my conclusion is that something is well done, but ultimately not for me.

When there was no dream of mine you dreamed of me

We are very similar in our feelings on music Jojo. There is most always something to appreciate, but that doesn't mean I will listen to it again

 

[Magua]

Jojo, they do some pretty cool and interesting music theory stuff, but I agree that their weird popularity is disproportional to their overall quality. Videotape is my fav from them

I have a friend who would die for Radiohead. I always find them a band I wish I liked more than I did but I can't. But I still like them. They're a mood band for me. Now, Kid A/Amnesiac (the same session) are two of my favorite albums -- they just do it for me. I love a lot of OK Computer. The rest is a la carte. In Rainbows is definitely the nearest up there.

The problem I have with Radiohead is that at their worst, they're boring. A lot of the songs blend and don't really have enough movement. Thom Yorke becomes a parody of Thom Yorke, singing purposefully mumbled gibberish like he's a senile old woman. Jonny Greenwood is brilliant though, don't get me wrong. And sometimes I don't mind senile old Mrs. Yorke, as long as the song isn't inert.

In Rainbows does rule but it came out like 15 years ago and they haven't made a great record since.

I actually liked half of A Moon Shaped Pool. The first 3 songs at least are fantastic. This music video is also directed by PTA:



@JojoTheWhale would watch this video for all 6 minutes and 27 seconds waiting for Thom Yorke to walk through a trap door into hell. He doesn't, so don't watch.

While I have you, this is probably my favorite song off In Rainbows. I love the progression, and I think it just sounds ethereal. I can play this on guitar, and it's one of my acoustic favorites when I strum the chords instead of the gentle fingerpicking. I start off just playing the chords with mutes, then I play it in open chords for the end.