NHL.com Trophy Tracker - Hart Trophy

[PostBradMalone]

Now how about we go back to talking about my actual post on how a 60 goal season isn't MVP worthy because of Leafs logic.

60 goals and even the Richard has never been a deciding factor for the Hart unless it also lands that player the Art Ross (or at least puts them close, unlike Matthews this year).

If you want proof, well, here are your 60 goal scorers of the last 30 years:

2011-12: Stamkos (won Richard, but finished 12 off #1 scorer Malkin)- NO Hart, and Stammer was even 2nd in points
2007-08: Ovechkin (won Art Ross + Richard)- Hart Trophy winner
1995-96: Lemieux (won Art Ross + Richard)- Hart Trophy winner (note Jagr also had 60 but they were teammates)
1993-94: Bure (won Richard, finished 5th in scoring)- NO Hart (went to Fedorov, who won the Selke and was #2 scorer)
1992-93: Lemieux (won Art Ross, #3 in goals)- Hart Trophy, but finished 7 goals off leaders Selanne and Mogilny)
1991-92: Hull (lapped the field in goals by 16)- NO Hart Trophy, it went to Messier who finished behind Hull in points)

The Art Ross has consistently been a reliable predictor of who will win the Hart. It's not perfect, but even in the last ten years it's aligned with the Hart winner 70% of the time. In comparison, the Richard winner has only bagged it once.

Right or wrong, there's no contest between the two in terms of which one voters put more weight behind. That's not to say the writers won't choose to vote a different way this year, but you can't just ignore decades of history.

 

[Straight Fire]

Well, as a Flames fan thinking Gaudreau has as good a case as anyone for winning the Hart, here are some things that Matthews brings to the table that others don't.

The biggest factor IMO is smashing an original 6 team goal scoring record. Imagine if it were NYR or Montreal or Chicago or the Wings. NYR and Chi might be the best comparable franchises due to the size of the cities. Not even factoring in the fact that he wins the Rocket Richard trophy while missing games and the second best scorer is over 10% behind him, the status of smashing the previous franchise record is just a never-ending massive story affecting all generations of Leaf and original 6 fans who are still alive and following the sport. So it's a big deal beyond the award.

Then you factor in the nuances of city size, media attachment, lack of general high level talent and championship success (as is well documented), there is an underlying ache to press the vote button for Auston. His whole career has been incredible since game 1 in the league (a story book beginning), and then there have been Covid and injury interruptions. It seemed possible Matthews might not hit 60 at the end but then he found that extra gear and reeled the benchmark in and surpassed it.

TBH the fact that there's more to the award as it pertains to larger markets and original 6 teams can be seen with the push for Shesterkin to be a finalist. IMO given the quality of the field, there's just no way his inclusion into the final 3 is a thing (even looking at all goalie statistics to formulate an argument for Shest) if it weren't for him being a NYR (the backdrop being a team that just came through the "King's" reign there and Richter before him).

I do think as far as importance to his team Matthews does make Leafs much better when he's playing. Plus he's got the crown jewel goal stat to his credit. So it's more than just being an original 6 thing, but all that associated stuff fortifies him as the front-runner.

That said, voting for McDavid wouldn't be wrong.

And the same can be said for Gaudreau winning IMO.

Then there's another 3 or 4 whom worthy arguments can be made for. That should be enough recognition.

 

[Atomos2]

60 goals and even the Richard has never been a deciding factor for the Hart unless it also lands that player the Art Ross (or at least puts them close, unlike Matthews this year).

If you want proof, well, here are your 60 goal scorers of the last 30 years:

2011-12: Stamkos (won Richard, but finished 12 off #1 scorer Malkin)- NO Hart, and Stammer was even 2nd in points
2007-08: Ovechkin (won Art Ross + Richard)- Hart Trophy winner
1995-96: Lemieux (won Art Ross + Richard)- Hart Trophy winner (note Jagr also had 60 but they were teammates)
1993-94: Bure (won Richard, finished 5th in scoring)- NO Hart (went to Fedorov, who won the Selke and was #2 scorer)
1992-93: Lemieux (won Art Ross, #3 in goals)- Hart Trophy, but finished 7 goals off leaders Selanne and Mogilny)
1991-92: Hull (lapped the field in goals by 16)- NO Hart Trophy, it went to Messier who finished behind Hull in points)

The Art Ross has consistently been a reliable predictor of who will win the Hart. It's not perfect, but even in the last ten years it's aligned with the Hart winner 70% of the time. In comparison, the Richard winner has only bagged it once. Right or wrong, there's no contest between the two in terms of which one voters put more weight behind. That's not to say the writers won't choose to vote a different way this year, but you can't just ignore decades of history.

So a sample size of six 60 goal scorers in the past 30 years (3 of which have won the Hart making it irrelevant to the sample size) is enough evidence to prove the only 60 goal scorer of this decade isn't worthy of Hart contention? That's a lot of work for no real answer.

Seasons with a 60 goal scorer are rare. Using voting standards from over the past 30 years ago with very little statistical data tracked and available at the time available to the voters is pretty much useless. You can blame the Leafs all you want, but if its true what the media outlets are saying with Matthews being the Hart favourite, then clearly a 60 goal season, won in which had 51 in 50 has some weight.

 

[PostBradMalone]

So a sample size of six 60 goal scorers in the past 30 years (3 of which have won the Hart making it irrelevant to the sample size) is enough evidence to prove the only 60 goal scorer of this decade isn't worthy of Hart contention? That's a lot of work for no real answer.

The answer is clearly there, you just don't like it. I think that's what Leafs fans have been running around this board calling "copium" for the past week.

 

[notbias]

He gets the rocket.

But gaudreau led league in even strength points…. Give that man the trophy. At least that’s the leafs logic in Calder… guessing it changes now tho to help matthews

I know you just hate the Leafs, but the difference is Bunting gets like no PP time, and Gaudreau has more PP time than Matthews.

Try again.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Yeah but that's such a small sample size. We also lost 8-1 to Tampa without Matthews this year. Leafs are a good team. But not they're not a top 5 teaming standings wise without him.

Obviously they’re better with Matthews but It’s very very hard to argue that Matthews is more important to his team than McDavid.

Post automatically merged: May 1, 2022

For a small sample size, yup.

I think 'in real life', we all know how they'd do without the guy.

Worse yes. Would Edmonton do much much worse without McDavid? Absolutely

 

[snag]

American goal scorer playing in Toronto…. He’ll def get votes just from that…. Also seems like writers are bored of giving the award to Mcdavid. JG and huberdeau don’t exactly have the same hype as Matthews as far as media goes. And I highly doubt they’ll let a Russian win it this year.

Josi vs Matthews prob makes most sense from writers perspective

So let's turn it into a participation award? Seems to kinda devalue the award overall....and puts an exclamation point on why the PHWA needs to have this responsibility taken off their hands.

I know it isn't YOU....just my commentary towards that sentiment (which I have seen before).

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

So let's turn it into a participation award? Seems to kinda devalue the award overall....and puts an exclamation point on why the PHWA needs to have this responsibility taken off their hands.

I know it isn't YOU....just my commentary towards that sentiment (which I have seen before).

Oh I 100% don’t agree with that mindset…. This year I think there are legit arguements for guys like shesh, josi, gaudreau huberdeau and Matthews…. But it seems like Mcdavid is getting no love or talk for the hart trophy despite being the best player in the league. He’s almost underrated at this point. No reason anyone should have Mcdavid outside their top 3

 

[snag]

Oh I 100% don’t agree with that mindset…. This year I think there are legit arguements for guys like shesh, josi, gaudreau huberdeau and Matthews…. But it seems like Mcdavid is getting no love or talk for the hart trophy despite being the best player in the league. He’s almost underrated at this point. No reason anyone should have Mcdavid outside their top 3

And so others don't think I am being a homer, I am not even making the case for McDavid. The whole "give it to someone else cause he's had it enough" is just asinine. Yes, there are other guys with merit....but don't cheapen it for them either by disqualifying a legit candidate cause the novelty has worn off of him.

 

[thaman8765678]

McDavid, Gaudreau or Josi should win.

Matthew's will win because he plays for the Leafs. But make no mistake, if any of the other 3 played in Toronto the Hart trophy would go to them.

 

[Holymakinaw]

McDavid, Gaudreau or Josi should win.

Matthew's will win because he plays for the Leafs. But make no mistake, if any of the other 3 played in Toronto the Hart trophy would go to them.

Every word of this is ridiculous.

 

[thaman8765678]

Every word of this is ridiculous.

Why? Matthew's has not had a better season than the other 3.

The Leafs have a better win% without him. Imagine voting someone most valuable to his team when the team is just a good without him.

 

[Maplebeasts]

McDavid, Gaudreau or Josi should win.

Matthew's will win because he plays for the Leafs. But make no mistake, if any of the other 3 played in Toronto the Hart trophy would go to them.

Just like it's gone to all of our other Hart trophy winners since '55.

 

[Steve Kournianos]

Yea best to use that logic rather than than the fact he's the only damn 60 goal scorer in the NHL in a decade.

Embarrassing how many people are belittling this feat. No appreciation of the game of hockey where the main objective is to score more goals than the other team.

Lol thats not what I was saying. Chill.

All I’m saying is the Toronto media should apply the same playoffs/improvement criteria for Shesterkin as they did for Matthews in 2017. Nobody is diminishing Matthews‘ season.

 

[34]

McDavid, Gaudreau or Josi should win.

Matthew's will win because he plays for the Leafs. But make no mistake, if any of the other 3 played in Toronto the Hart trophy would go to them.

HAHA, sounds like you are making up excuses already because you know Matthews has won the Hart and crushed the competition.

 

[wetcoast]

It’s the writers who vote and I don’t know if people know, matthews finished second in hart voting behind mcdavid last season, and matthews didn’t break a leafs season single,goal scoring record, score 60 and help his team to the best regular season record in its storied history. im not a leafs fan but matthews will win the hart, not who I’d chose, just who I think the writers will chose.

I agree that this could happen and honestly I wouldn't be too upset by it.

but while I don't know what the writers will do and who they will pick, one thing I do know is that these boards will explode either way.

 

[centipede2233]

I agree that this could happen and honestly I wouldn't be too upset by it.

but while I don't know what the writers will do and who they will pick, one thing I do know is that these boards will explode either way.

:grabs popcorn:

 

[Juxta Position]

I mean it’s a silly trophy… hopefully matthews is focused on a cup not a hart trophy…. Tho a hart trophy would help pride him out of Toronto so he can escape to Arizona

Post automatically merged: May 1, 2022

American goal scorer playing in Toronto…. He’ll def get votes just from that…. Also seems like writers are bored of giving the award to Mcdavid. JG and huberdeau don’t exactly have the same hype as Matthews as far as media goes. And I highly doubt they’ll let a Russian win it this year.

Josi vs Matthews prob makes most sense from writers perspective

And all that is the problem with the Hart in general, it's too narrative driven.

The REAL award is the Lindsay. the only reason the Hart gets so much talk and hype is because it is a media voted award, of course they're gonna pimp that over the Lindsay, their ego's need that to be the most important award so they pump it up as such. The players put more stock into the Lindsay as that is the one voted on by their peers, the guys they battle against every night, not a bunch of talking head clowns who can barely skate.

 

[wetcoast]

:grabs popcorn:

pretty much eh?

Post automatically merged: May 1, 2022

And all that is the problem with the Hart in general, it's too narrative driven.

The REAL award is the Lindsay. the only reason the Hart gets so much talk and hype is because it is a media voted award, of course they're gonna pimp that over the Lindsay, their ego's need that to be the most important award so they pump it up as such. The players put more stock into the Lindsay as that is the one voted on by their peers, the guys they battle against every night, not a bunch of talking head clowns who can barely skate.

I agree with you in part but I think the bigger problem is people that strictly trophy count and not look at context or the fact that there are 5 or 6 guys who have very strong Hart arguments this year.

I mean people will say that player A was Significantly better because he won the Hart over player B when the difference really isn't that large really.

 

[wetcoast]

So a sample size of six 60 goal scorers in the past 30 years (3 of which have won the Hart making it irrelevant to the sample size) is enough evidence to prove the only 60 goal scorer of this decade isn't worthy of Hart contention? That's a lot of work for no real answer.

Seasons with a 60 goal scorer are rare. Using voting standards from over the past 30 years ago with very little statistical data tracked and available at the time available to the voters is pretty much useless. You can blame the Leafs all you want, but if its true what the media outlets are saying with Matthews being the Hart favourite, then clearly a 60 goal season, won in which had 51 in 50 has some weight.

Scoring is also slightly up this year, so getting hung up and dying on the hill of absolute numbers opposed to oeverall picture isn't the ebst way to go in making an argument.

Same thing with Johnny's "historical" +/- season.

Or Igor's save% in 53 games played

both forwards have had extremely strong seasons and are in my mind Hart finalists but I think some people are dwelling too much on "talking points" and not the whole picture either as it's not like McDavid didn't just win the Art Ross by 8 points right?

 

[Video Nasty]

Correct. The Leafs lost 8-1 to Tampa without Matthews.

Two weeks before that, Matthews scored a hat trick in a 6-2 win over Tampa. His 3 goals alone would have beaten Tampa that game.

Without Mathews, the Leafs are a good team. With Matthews, the Leafs are a Stanley Cup contender.

Be careful with how highly you tout Matthews.

If this “good” team who has Matthews, a player who in your words elevates the Leafs to Cup contender status, I hope you’ll understand when he is crucified if he has a lackluster performance after potting 60 goals in the regular season where he seems to be the front runner for the Hart, and the Leafs get bounced in the opening round yet again.

You can’t have your cake and eat it too, but by god how most of you Leafs acolytes will try.

 

[Busher]

Well, as a Flames fan thinking Gaudreau has as good a case as anyone for winning the Hart, here are some things that Matthews brings to the table that others don't.

The biggest factor IMO is smashing an original 6 team goal scoring record. Imagine if it were NYR or Montreal or Chicago or the Wings. NYR and Chi might be the best comparable franchises due to the size of the cities. Not even factoring in the fact that he wins the Rocket Richard trophy while missing games and the second best scorer is over 10% behind him, the status of smashing the previous franchise record is just a never-ending massive story affecting all generations of Leaf and original 6 fans who are still alive and following the sport. So it's a big deal beyond the award.

Then you factor in the nuances of city size, media attachment, lack of general high level talent and championship success (as is well documented), there is an underlying ache to press the vote button for Auston. His whole career has been incredible since game 1 in the league (a story book beginning), and then there have been Covid and injury interruptions. It seemed possible Matthews might not hit 60 at the end but then he found that extra gear and reeled the benchmark in and surpassed it.

TBH the fact that there's more to the award as it pertains to larger markets and original 6 teams can be seen with the push for Shesterkin to be a finalist. IMO given the quality of the field, there's just no way his inclusion into the final 3 is a thing (even looking at all goalie statistics to formulate an argument for Shest) if it weren't for him being a NYR (the backdrop being a team that just came through the "King's" reign there and Richter before him).

I do think as far as importance to his team Matthews does make Leafs much better when he's playing. Plus he's got the crown jewel goal stat to his credit. So it's more than just being an original 6 thing, but all that associated stuff fortifies him as the front-runner.

While Matthews is a worthy Hart winner based strictly on merit, I can’t deny as a fan of hockey history that capping off his 6th season would make for a great story for his overall career.

2016. He’s a highly touted #1 pick, one of the top prospects of the decade. Will he live up to expectations?

Season 1. He starts his much-heralded NHL career with 4 goals en route to a 40 goal Calder winning playoff season.

Seasons 2 and 3. Has a couple of injury-riddled seasons where it looked like he was on track for 90 or 100 points. Doesn’t get anywhere near that. Signs a massive contract, which in hindsight he more than lived up to.

Season 4. Finally enters his prime. Finally poised to score 50 goals, then COVID stops him at 47 goals in 70 games. Misses the Rocket by 1 goal in an interrupted season. May have won the Rocket if a full 82 game season played out. It’s like losing out on winning a 26 mile marathon by suddenly moving the finish line up 1 mile when trailing the leader by a 3 feet.

Season 5. Never had a chance at 50 goals due to a 56 game season, but won the Rocket anyway. On pace for 60 goals and 100 points. But the hockey world wants to actually see it happen in reality. His peak years are steadily passing by with multiple shortened seasons. You only get so many kicks at the can.

Season 6. The aim would have been 50 goals. Starts off with an injury, and behind Draisaitl in the Rocket race by 10 goals at one point. Nowhere near on pace for 50 goals or 100 points. After a month of play, heats up. Scores a goal on average every game. Gets suspended. Will that stop him? Scores his 50th goal. Breaks the Leafs’ 100 year old franchise record with 55 goals. Scores 51 goals in 50 games. Gets his 100th point. Surely will get 60 goals now. Gets injured. Will he still get 60? Maybe not? 2 games to go. Ok yes, he got goal #60 in spectacular fashion. Get ready for playoffs, voluntarily rest the last game. It’s about the team, not the individual. Wins the Rocket, first to score 60 goals in a decade, fastest to 60 goals since Lemieux, in 73 games. 115 team points, breaking another Leafs’ 100 year old franchise record. Vindication after COVID robbed him of his only 2 prime seasons until now. It’s a spectacular story.

Now if he wins a Hart on top of that? That would set off a “to be continued…” type ending to the season. How does he fare for the rest of his career? How much higher can he go? He’s improved his PPG in each of his 6 seasons:

Season 1 - 0.84 PPG
Season 2 - 1.02 PPG
Season 3 - 1.07 PPG
Season 4 - 1.14 PPG
Season 5 - 1.27 PPG
Season 6 - 1.45 PPG

He’s one of the few players in history I can think of that have had meaningful seasons in all 6 of their first seasons AND watch their PPG go up all of those seasons. He hasn’t wasted any season, and that is good for his career storybook. Jágr and McDavid come to mind too. That’s some pretty special company.

A Hart win for Matthews will no doubt create a special narrative in hockey history.

 

[McShogun99]

The Hart Memorial Trophy is an annual award given "to the player adjudged to be the most valuable to his team." The winner is selected in a poll of the Professional Hockey Writers' Association in all NHL cities at the end of the regular season.

If you go by that definition then it has to be either Josi or Shesterkin. I doubt New York or Nashville makes the playoffs without them. The sad thing is that this award is usually given to the player that's considered most valuable to the media.

 

[thaman8765678]

The Hart Memorial Trophy is an annual award given "to the player adjudged to be the most valuable to his team." The winner is selected in a poll of the Professional Hockey Writers' Association in all NHL cities at the end of the regular season.

If you go by that definition then it has to be either Josi or Shesterkin. I doubt New York or Nashville makes the playoffs without them. The sad thing is that this award is usually given to the player that's considered most valuable to the media.

Gaudreau and McDavid's teams probably miss without them too.

Toronto still easily makes playoffs without Matthew's. He should not even be in the conversation.

 

[McShogun99]

Gaudreau and McDavid's teams probably miss without them too.

Toronto still easily makes playoffs without Matthew's. He should not even be in the conversation.

I think the Oilers and Flames still make it due to team depth. They just don’t finish 1-2 in the Pacific