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NHL.com TOP 20 Defenseman

norrisnick

norrisnick

The best...
Apr 14, 2005
31,142
16,458
Czechboy said:
This is just silly and off topic. I'm thrilled he's in Vancouver on a top pairing role and making playoffs! Feels personal when you do that.. please stick to hockey.
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Then why question the trade all the time in any and all threads relating to the Wings? Just be happy and move on. Wing fans have (barring Konnan).
 
Czechboy

Czechboy

Češi do toho!
Apr 15, 2018
27,163
24,390
norrisnick said:
Then why question the trade all the time in any and all threads relating to the Wings? Just be happy and move on. Wing fans have (barring Konnan).
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I'm all over the place around here. Even a mod. I'm in a lot of threads talking about a lot of things. I never make it personal and talk directly about what posters are thinking like you are about me and whoever Konnan is. You want to talk hockey, reply. You want to tell me and everyone what I'm thinking.. not cool. I'm more than happy to tell people what I think about their players, teams etc. It's why I come here. any time you want my opinion, just click reply.

If I post 100 things a day... 5 are about random things like the wings and other NHL clubs... 50 are about the Czechs and 45 are about the Oilers. I post on the mains which is for everyone. this isn't a Wing's thread. I rarely am on the Wing's board. Most likely not till Becher and Rychlovsky make some nice and that is 50-50 at best.
 
Pavels Dog

Pavels Dog

Registered User
Feb 18, 2013
20,736
16,427
Sweden
bossram said:
I don't think giving the difficult minutes to guys like Petry or Holl would be better for the Wings winning. Seider is their best defenseman, ergo he likely would perform the best in the tough minutes.

However, the fact that they have to use him like that is a massive indictment of Yzerman's GMing. Why did he acquire all these "veteran" defensemen if they're essentially unplayable in any kind of leverage role? Wasn't the point of those guys to make Seider's life easier, so that they can unlock more of his offensive game? Why is Yzerman wasting money on UFAs they can't even trust to play? Could they not have allocated that money better? Find someone to help Seider? A guy that can anchor a tough minutes pair, or a better partner for him?

It falls on Yzerman. He's been doing a poor job for years.
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Questioning Yzerman's roster construction is a different discussion than "Seider bad because analytics".

Three quick points about the useage however:

1. The GM builds the roster, the coach decides how to deploy it.
2. Not sure where you've gotten the impression that the goal is to unlock more offense from Seider.
3. It's a lot easier to find a guy with elite offense like Gostisbehere than it is to find someone with elite defense.

Aladyyn said:
I'm sure killing Seider's development for 2 years was worth it to achieve 48% goal share at 5on5.
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Being a top 20 d-man in the NHL at age 23 is definitely a sign that his development was "killed" lol.
 

FriendlyGhost92

Registered User
Jun 22, 2023
4,132
4,940
TageGod said:
What about his usage was ungodly? His TOI went down, that means he was not trusted to be on the ice as much. A #1 is an all-situation player. Power had about the same TOI as Seider.
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I'm not gonna bother arguing with something as ignorant as "His TOI went down so they don't trust him as much."

That's another level of stupidity. Seider's deployment was a regular topic of discussion throughout the season because it was batshit insanity how ridiculous his assignments were.
 

KillerMillerTime

Registered User
Jun 30, 2019
8,016
6,605
Maurice of Orange said:
No Pietrangelo is not better then any of the top 20 defensemen listed, he started slipping.

Pie took a hit last season and also missed multiple games throughout the season with different injuries and appendicitis.
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Care to tell us how much the injuries and appendicitis impacted him?
 

KillerMillerTime

Registered User
Jun 30, 2019
8,016
6,605
jfhabs said:
No one if taking Forsling over Fox and McAvoy. Who puts these list together!?
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Bruins fan here, Forsling outplayed McAvoy two playoffs in a row. Given the differential in salary I would trade McAvoy even up.

jfhabs said:
No one if taking Forsling over Fox and McAvoy. Who puts these list together!?
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Bruins fan here, Forsling outplayed McAvoy two playoffs in a row. Given the differential in salary I would trade McAvoy even up.
 

TageGod

Registered User
Aug 31, 2022
2,387
1,595
FriendlyGhost92 said:
I'm not gonna bother arguing with something as ignorant as "His TOI went down so they don't trust him as much."

That's another level of stupidity. Seider's deployment was a regular topic of discussion throughout the season because it was batshit insanity how ridiculous his assignments were.
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You can use whatever reason you want. He just was not good enough.
 
SeanMoneyHands

SeanMoneyHands

Registered User
Apr 18, 2019
15,217
14,526
Hedman over Hieskanen? Maybe 3 years ago but not now. Miro is a beast and was playing 30mins a night in the playoffs.
 

TageGod

Registered User
Aug 31, 2022
2,387
1,595
FriendlyGhost92 said:
It's been stated numerous times in this thread and articles that Seider had absurd deployment and you're in here ranting about TOI and +/-.

Quite frankly, it's just that you're not worth the argument.
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Just because he had a hard deployment, doesn't mean he is required to have sub-par stats. I keep giving you more stats and you keep wanting to say deployment, as if nothing else matters.
 

FriendlyGhost92

Registered User
Jun 22, 2023
4,132
4,940
TageGod said:
Just because he had a hard deployment, doesn't mean he is required to have sub-par stats. I keep giving you more stats and you keep wanting to say deployment, as if nothing else matters.
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Because the stats you're using are shit and you led off with "Well his TOI has decreased so they're clearly losing trust in him". LMAO.
 
bossram

bossram

Registered User
Sep 25, 2013
16,646
17,035
Victoria
Pavels Dog said:
Questioning Yzerman's roster construction is a different discussion than "Seider bad because analytics".

Three quick points about the useage however:

1. The GM builds the roster, the coach decides how to deploy it.
2. Not sure where you've gotten the impression that the goal is to unlock more offense from Seider.
3. It's a lot easier to find a guy with elite offense like Gostisbehere than it is to find someone with elite defense.
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Yeah, which why I said Yzerman's roster construction is bad and that he's a poor GM, and didn't make a criticism of Seider. Regarding your points:

1. Yes, the GM sucks. It's Yzerman's fault the team is bad and Seider is left to get buried.
2. It should be a goal. Seider has the tools to be a truly elite all-around defenseman, like a Heiskanen. IMO, that seems like it would be good for the Wings. Burying him with such brutal deployment, with no help, is not going to maximize him.
3. Even guys like Ghost don't provide "elite offense". Most players viewed this way are just PP merchants, but they don't create much build-up at 5v5 (EDM Tyson Barrie is the canonical example).
 
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GOALOFSSON

GOALOFSSON

Game Changer
Jun 6, 2018
2,590
1,858
Aspland
dgibb10 said:
He clears Dahlin
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Based on?


Coffees said:
Perhaps but that’s extremely hard to tell right now, Sabres roster hasn’t performed as well as Stars roster
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Part of the reason I'll take Dahlin, better regular season results with a worse team. We can bring up the playoffs but I won't hold it against Dahlin that the Sabres haven't been there since before he was drafted.

This year we have a deeper team, better coach, I doubt the PP will be as bad as last year and our top two C should bounce back, so we'll see what happens. Team will also still be getting better over the next couple of years with everything we have in the pipeline.
 

dgibb10

Registered User
Feb 29, 2024
3,186
2,764
GOALOFSSON said:
Based on?




Part of the reason I'll take Dahlin, better regular season results with a worse team. We can bring up the playoffs but I won't hold it against Dahlin that the Sabres haven't been there since before he was drafted.

This year we have a deeper team, better coach, I doubt the PP will be as bad as last year and our top two C should bounce back, so we'll see what happens. Team will also still be getting better over the next couple of years with everything we have in the pipeline.
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Well if you want the simplest explanation.

Dahlin currently loses his minutes.

Heiskanen wins his minutes massively.

I don't want to hear any bullshit about teammates or anything. If you are trying to claim Dahlin is a top 5, or top 10 dman in hockey, it is unacceptable for him to be getting outchanced, outshot, and outscored when he's on the ice.
 
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GOALOFSSON

GOALOFSSON

Game Changer
Jun 6, 2018
2,590
1,858
Aspland
dgibb10 said:
Well if you want the simplest explanation.

Dahlin currently loses his minutes.

Heiskanen wins his minutes massively.

I don't want to hear any bullshit about teammates or anything. If you are trying to claim Dahlin is a top 5, or top 10 dman in hockey, it is unacceptable for him to be getting outchanced, outshot, and outscored when he's on the ice.
Click to expand...

Any proof of this?

Are we talking about the same Dahlin?
 
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