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NHL: Around the League 51

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Like the Toews and Kane contracts, the issue wouldnt be spending high on Bedard and Pettersson. The issue is the Seth Jones boat anchor contract, like the Seabrook contract before it.

belfour30 said:
Again, I wonder of the danger of spending $26M on two players. We just saw what happens when the Hawks spent $21M on 19/88.
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JaegerDice said:
Like the Toews and Kane contracts, the issue wouldnt be spending high on Bedard and Pettersson. The issue is the Seth Jones boat anchor contract, like the Seabrook contract before it.
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Also Toews fell off a cliff a season or two into his contract. Let's not forget that.

SJ has been fine the last two years and he's not overpaid by that much.
 
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belfour30 said:
Also Toews fell off a cliff a season or trp into his contract. Let's not forget that.

SJ has been fine the last two years and he's not overpaid by that much.
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Yep, but Toews was 28/29, not 24/25 like Pettersson.

Seth Jones has one of the worst contracts in the NHL. He’s a Top 50 Dman making a Top 10 Dman AAV. That’s massive negative value. They either need to pay a rebuilding team to take him off their hands with a huge bundle of draft picks or surround him with enough talent to deploy him in only scenarios he can provide value.
 
JaegerDice said:
Yep, but Toews was 28/29, not 24/25 like Pettersson.

Seth Jones has one of the worst contracts in the NHL. He’s a Top 50 Dman making a Top 10 Dman AAV. That’s massive negative value. They either need to pay a rebuilding team to take him off their hands with a huge bundle of draft picks or surround him with enough talent to deploy him in only scenarios he can provide value.
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He doesn't. SJ is like 1.5M overpaid which is what you expect based on long-term deals.
 
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belfour30 said:


He doesn't. SJ is like 1.5M overpaid which is what you expect based on long-term deals.
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He does. Indeed, he has an argument for the very worst contract in the leagure.

AUucMyi.png


You can read a deeper breakdown here, but I'll pull the money quote for you:

At the same time, it’s not hard to look good when being compared to one of the worst teams we’ve ever seen. And the reason the team is so bad is partially because Jones is the guy at the top of the lineup, a spot he arguably isn’t capable of holding anymore on a competitive team. That Jones is even in Chicago in the first place is because the Blackhawks made a big bet that Jones was indeed that guy. Right now they’re losing that bet as Jones has what looks to be the league’s worst contract.
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theathletic.com

NHL’s 10 worst contracts, 2023 edition: Jones, Parayko and Huberdeau lead the way

The players who offer their teams the least relative value to the dollar figure on their contract.
theathletic.com theathletic.com

Even IF you believe that Seth Jones is a legit #1 Dman in the league, that makes him a top 32 Dman. He is very clearly NOT a top 10 dman in the league despite a top 10 cap hit amoung active Dmen. It is a disastrous contract that will hamstring the Blackhawks for as long as it remains on their books.
 
Campbell had a disastrous contract too. Then we won a cup. Then traded him at 32 with 5 years left on the deal. For a smaller cap dump. As long as hes good and we dont need space the contract does not matter at all.
 
JaegerDice said:
He does. Indeed, he has an argument for the very worst contract in the leagure.

AUucMyi.png


You can read a deeper breakdown here, but I'll pull the money quote for you:



theathletic.com

NHL’s 10 worst contracts, 2023 edition: Jones, Parayko and Huberdeau lead the way

The players who offer their teams the least relative value to the dollar figure on their contract.
theathletic.com theathletic.com

Even IF you believe that Seth Jones is a legit #1 Dman in the league, that makes him a top 32 Dman. He is very clearly NOT a top 10 dman in the league despite a top 10 cap hit amoung active Dmen. It is a disastrous contract that will hamstring the Blackhawks for as long as it remains on their books.
Click to expand...
I think SJ is solidly in the 15-30 range and D contracts will continue to get bigger as the cap goes up. It's not as bad and as dire as you think and Dom's model is the only one I've seen that continues to shit on SJ since Colliton got fired.
 
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belfour30 said:
I think SJ is solidly in the 15-30 range and D contracts will continue to get bigger as the cap goes up. It's not as bad and as dire as you think and Dom's model is the only one I've seen that continues to shit on SJ since Colliton got fired.
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I hate the 'cap is going to up' argument. For a number of reasons:

1) Many teams, including the Blackhawks, have ****ed themselves on the assumption the cap will go up. How about we wait until the cap goes up, and by how much, before building our team around cap space that doesn't exist yet.

2) Any cap increase applies to EVERYBODY, including the teams WITHOUT negative value contracts on their books. Yes, SJ's contract will be somewhat less painful as it represents a smaller percentage of the cap, but it's never going to become a positive use of that cap percentage. All the teams without wildly overpaid players will have MORE of that increased cap space to use than we do.

3) Seth Jones is not traveling at the speed of light. Time passes for him at the same rate it does the rest of us. Which means he's getting older and will provide EVEN LESS VALUE as the cap hypothetically increases. Which means, even as the percentage of the cap he takes up drops, the gap in on-ice value to cap hit will get WIDER.

The benefit of a shrinking cap percentage works for elite players delivering value on their contracts through their prime. You're relying on contracts providing INCREASING surplus value as their percentage of the cap decreases, opening up space to fill in around those players making disproportionate positive impact. A shrinking cap's impact on hiding BAD contracts is pretty minimal, because even if you build out around that bad contract, you still have a player that's giving you less than what he's taking up on the cap, on the ice.
 
Paul Allen said:
EP as 2C sounds lovely. He’s an RFA so a trade would have to happen. It’d probably start with one of Nazar or Reichel, Moore, and a 1st.
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To Chicago:
:hawks
-Elias Pettersson

To Vancouver:
:nucks
-2024 TBL 1st round pick
-2025 TOR 1st round pick
-2026 CHI 2nd round pick
-Lukas Reichel
-Nolan Allan

Nothing of consequence lost. Stanley/Kelley blunders purged. Elite star acquired.

Easy.
 
Kevin Musto said:
To Chicago:
:hawks
-Elias Pettersson

To Vancouver:
:nucks
-2024 TBL 1st round pick
-2025 TOR 1st round pick
-2026 CHI 2nd round pick
-Lukas Reichel
-Nolan Allan

Nothing of consequence lost. Stanley/Kelley blunders purged. Elite star acquired.

Easy.
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All of this trading, drafting, developing to throw it all into one Elias Petterson? That's it? Pass.

JaegerDice said:
He does. Indeed, he has an argument for the very worst contract in the leagure.

AUucMyi.png


You can read a deeper breakdown here, but I'll pull the money quote for you:



theathletic.com

NHL’s 10 worst contracts, 2023 edition: Jones, Parayko and Huberdeau lead the way

The players who offer their teams the least relative value to the dollar figure on their contract.
theathletic.com theathletic.com

Even IF you believe that Seth Jones is a legit #1 Dman in the league, that makes him a top 32 Dman. He is very clearly NOT a top 10 dman in the league despite a top 10 cap hit amoung active Dmen. It is a disastrous contract that will hamstring the Blackhawks for as long as it remains on their books.
Click to expand...
Sure, Jan.
 
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Clownish said:
All of this trading, drafting, developing to throw it all into one Elias Petterson? That's it? Pass.
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EP is way better than anyone in that package, and I would trade even more than that to acquire him.

Who gives a shit about hanging onto prospects that will never be as good as EP?
 
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Musto is and has been wrong about Reichel but EP is an entirely different level of player. You trade Tanguay++ for skinny Forsberg every chance you can. EP is that guy if he's willing to sign long-term.
 
Would take our 2024 1st unprotected and one of the big five (obvs not CB), and maybe more. The TB and TOR picks wouldn’t move the needle.
 
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He'll be making his decision to stay in Vancouver or not on how well they do this year, it says. Why the hell would he come to Chicago? who will no doubt be as bad as Vancouver or worse over the next couple years.
 
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To Chicago:
:hawks
-Elias Pettersson

To Vancouver:
:nucks
-2024 TBL 1st round pick
-2025 TOR 1st round pick
-Lukas Reichel
-Nazar/Moore
-Allan/Vlasic/EDM
 
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