GDT: NHL 24 Draft Combine June 3-8 NOT the trade, roster or KK thread

[Habs Halifax]

SOLR has made a succession of irrational (or unjustifiable) arguments against only one specific prospect. Prospect fixation happens to us all. Catton is considered a top-tier playmaking talent and quick by the general scouting consensus... he's also not even short... if he adds up to 10lbs he's got the same frame as Kucherov. He's light but the combine isn't completed yet, maybe he's gained 5kg of weight.

SOLR calls him a bad playmaker and slow... but also compares him to Yzerman (as if anybody would take a potential Iginla over a potential Yzerman!)... it's simply not accurate or worth bickering over. SOLR simply doesn't like Catton.... It's totally fair to prefer any other prospect but trashing Catton exclusively is simply not productive.

What happens is you are talking to one poster in a open conversation and others jump in to nit pick certain points. You reply to that and then that's where the spins happen. Probably say things you shouldn't.

Catton is a good talent. Same as Sennecke. With Catton, I don't see much to like in terms of him overcoming the physical areas. Do you think he is the type to add muscle and welcome contact? Because if he is the type that don't like it, it's not going to end well (See Drouin). I've tried to dig into finding some video for that area but could not find it. Most of his highlight reels are plays with lots of time/space and weak D breakdowns. It's like that with others too (usually) but there are small clips you can find sometimes and I can see it with Iggy.

Still has lots of skill but I want to see that skill in more heavy traffic. Yeah, he can add weight to get to Kucherov's level but Drouin is 200 lbs bud. If you don't like contract, your weight doesn't help you.

 

[FrankMTL]

View attachment 880169

You talkin 'bout me?

(Did he injure his shoulder? They are completely uneven. Might just be the way he is standing though)

It looks like he's in the preliminary phase of becoming "Teen Wolf".

 

[ReHabs]

What happens is you are talking to one poster in a open conversation and others jump in to nit pick certain points. You reply to that and then that's where the spins happen. Probably say things you shouldn't.

Catton is a good talent. Same as Sennecke. With Catton, I don't see much to like in terms of him overcoming the physical areas. Do you think he is the type to add muscle and welcome contact? Because if he is the type that don't like it, it's not going to end well (See Drouin). I've tried to dig into finding some video for that area but could not find it. Most of his highlight reels are plays with lots of time/space and weak D breakdowns. It's like that with others too (usually) but there are small clips you can find sometimes and I can see it with Iggy.

Still has lots of skill but I want to see that skill in more heavy traffic. Yeah, he can add weight to get to Kucherov's level but Drouin is 200 lbs bud. If you don't like contract, your weight doesn't help you.

It's perfectly fine to not like Catton or any other prospect. I just wish people would talk about real issues they have (like you say: contact/physical play) and not make up reasons to dislike a prospect. SOLR said Catton is "too far away" for our core... how is Catton any further from being an impact player in the NHL than Sennecke or Demidov or Iginla? I don't mean to point the finger at SOLR but he/she is pretty much the only person who has a fixation on Catton specifically. The Yzerman/Iginla comp is borderline ridiculous. If you have someone with Yzerman's upside, you take him and shift Dach to RW or trade Caufield away. Simple as.

As for Drouin... Kane doesn't like contact either. Most players don't like contact. Weber didn't like contact and rarely initiated big hits. Playing smart with and around the puck means you don't get hit often (Gretzka was the god of this) and you don't have to hit often. A team like the Habs needs every profile of top player and that includes high-skill playmakers who can make plays at full speed... that seems like Demidov, Catton, whoever... Drouin is one of the worst-case outcomes, we can look at worst-case outcomes for every prospect including Lindstrom and Iginla, but it's pointless imo.

I'm not so in love with Catton as I am his profile tbh, I want a high-skill forward. But at 5OA I'd even take one the top d-men because they all seem very very good and if Lev or Dickinson falls to us, it's a no brainer.

 

[FrankMTL]

With life experience

Two kids and a wife back home

 

[SOLR]

terrible analogy aside. There is no circumstance where a team takes Jerome ahead of Stevie in their primes. I understand the point you’re trying to make, but I feel you missed the mark. I also feel like you’re making the same mistakes scouts make that allow your Keller’s and Caufield’s to slide, except Catton isn’t even what I’d consider small. He drives the play, has tremendous skill and upside, despite what said, plays a well rounded game as well, but he’s a pass because he misses the height requirements by an inch or two.

You think I'm missing the mark, let's see in a few years.

I'm not making an argument for not drafting Catton at all. In fact, I'd make a trade to get the 6th overall and draft Catton....I'm making an argument only, and only, for saying he's not the role player we need with the picks we have. If you have 6th overall, replacing Dach is the role most important to target. Of course if by any luck we can get Demidov and Iginla with 5 and 6, those 2 roles are more important than trying to replace Dach.

I want to make a play for Boisvert as he could be another option to potentially replace Dach.
Replacing Dach is only in the context of Dach injury history and how his stock could go to 0. Love Dach when he plays...

SOLR has made a succession of irrational (or unjustifiable) arguments against only one specific prospect. Prospect fixation happens to us all. Catton is considered a top-tier playmaking talent and quick by the general scouting consensus... he's also not even short... if he adds up to 10lbs he's got the same frame as Kucherov. He's light but the combine isn't completed yet, maybe he's gained 5kg of weight.

SOLR calls him a bad playmaker and slow... but also compares him to Yzerman (as if anybody would take a potential Iginla over a potential Yzerman!)... it's simply not accurate or worth bickering over. SOLR simply doesn't like Catton.... It's totally fair to prefer any other prospect but trashing Catton exclusively is simply not productive.

Go throw your accusations elsewhere bud. I love Catton, for any other team (with the picks we have).
This culture of X than Y logic is so stupid.

Your posts are full of superlatives, part of my pushing back is pushing back against projections that are just simply weird.

"Catton is considered a top tier playmaking talent" - True but not elite tier like Demidov. Catton won't make the NHL on playmaking alone for this reason. Demidov will. That's the general scouting consensus that they are not in the same tier for that skill.

"he's also not even short" - True, where did I say he's short, I called him small, he will be below NHL average in his prime, there's no debate about this.

"SOLR calls him a bad playmaker and slow." - Stop lying, I never called him a bad playmaker, he's just not Demidov, there is no debate about that whatsoever. I did called him slow/not fast (I project him as average speed), because well, sorry, but that's he is right now. Brayden Point was not fast either at that age, he can change.

"It's totally fair to prefer any other prospect but trashing Catton" - I'm not thrashing anyone, I could go on and on about the weaknesses of everyone in the top 20, my view is simply high definition because I've seen 40 games of each of these guys over 3 years.

" SOLR said Catton is "too far away" for our core... how is Catton any further from being an impact player in the NHL than Sennecke or Demidov or Iginla?" - Too far away, because I evaluate Catton as a 2 to 3 years to arrive. I evaluate Lindstrom as potentially NHL ready. Demidov, 1 year, Iginla, Sennecke 1 or 2 years. It's just an evaluation, relax, could be wrong.

I'm thrashing him so much that I'd trade Matheson to draft him right now at the draft. I think his biggest quality is that he compete, that's why I compared him with Steve Y, who also wasn't the fastest, also wasn't the biggest. But he was the biggest competitor. He's a winner. With lesser skills, size, speed, he will get comparable results vs. players with more skills.

Again to repeat, I'm thrashing him so much that I'm comparing him to Stevie Y. CLEALY I HATE THE GUY (sarcasm).

 

[WeThreeKings]

Here's the thing.. Levshunov and Silayev are going in the 2-4 range, we are getting Demidov or Lindstrom. So the Sennecke talk against Iginla is just the worst case scenario if things shift heavily in the next few weeks.

Here's the interesting tidbits from The Athletic pod with Wheeler and Pronman at the combine.

• Hawks Athletic writer Scott Powers was on the podcast for the first half - Hawks interest and due diligence is severe and he believes that is who they are going to take. All of their major decision makers have gone to see Levshunov play and done it multiple times, it's an organization who values the live viewings and Kyle Davidson likes seeing those guys live. At 2 they want to remove as much risk from the profile as possible and believe this is the final piece of their defense while they expect to not be picking top 2 again, they still expect to pick in the top 7 next year.
• Wheeler saying a few people in the NHL are concerned about Demidov and CSKA, especially with his brother being in the organization. This is an organization known for pulling sketchy shit so that unknown piece could be enough to scare some teams off at the top of the draft, namely Chicago.
• There are some teams that have a concern on Lindstrom but the majority of them feel it isn't a concern at all. Sense Pronman gets around Lindstrom is that he's a top 5 pick. Wheeler says CBJ and MTL is where the conversation will happen on Lindstrom.
• Michael Hage is projected to go in the 15-22 range.
• Stian Solberg is a wildcard and could go very high, not in the top 10 but he's likely any time in the teens,
• Some teams have Iginla in the 6-9 range, others have him in the teens. Mentions Jack Quinn, Jarvis, Kemell as comparisons for Iginla about how hgih he can realistically go as scorers in that 5'11-6'0 range tend to not go top 5 unless they have Lucas Raymond level smarts and there's differing opinions on his sense. Pronman's sense is that while he has top 6 skills, he doesn't think he checks enough boxes to go top 5 at his height.
• Boisvert, you often always hear good things and that he has big intangibles and competitiveness which is viewed as a premiere asset to NHL clubs.

 

[Habs Halifax]

It's perfectly fine to not like Catton or any other prospect. I just wish people would talk about real issues they have (like you say: contact/physical play) and not make up reasons to dislike a prospect. SOLR said Catton is "too far away" for our core... how is Catton any further from being an impact player in the NHL than Sennecke or Demidov or Iginla? I don't mean to point the finger at SOLR but he/she is pretty much the only person who has a fixation on Catton specifically. The Yzerman/Iginla comp is borderline ridiculous. If you have someone with Yzerman's upside, you take him and shift Dach to RW or trade Caufield away. Simple as.

As for Drouin... Kane doesn't like contact either. Most players don't like contact. Weber didn't like contact and rarely initiated big hits. Playing smart with and around the puck means you don't get hit often (Gretzka was the god of this) and you don't have to hit often. A team like the Habs needs every profile of top player and that includes high-skill playmakers who can make plays at full speed... that seems like Demidov, Catton, whoever... Drouin is one of the worst-case outcomes, we can look at worst-case outcomes for every prospect including Lindstrom and Iginla, but it's pointless imo.

I'm not so in love with Catton as I am his profile tbh, I want a high-skill forward. But at 5OA I'd even take one the top d-men because they all seem very very good and if Lev or Dickinson falls to us, it's a no brainer.

Very fair. But it's HF boards and there will be hot takes. We are all just trying to do our best to play scout want a bees

 

[MarkovsKnee]

The Sennecke talks reminds me so much of the Lekkerimaki talks of 2 years ago....

Uh, no?

They're not even close to being similar players. Lekkerimaki pretty much stayed in a general mid-1st pick range throughout his draft year. The only talk around Lekkerimaki would have been for the Mesar pick, and that one was far too late (#26).

Lekkerimaki was a completely undraftable player for us. He wasn’t in the talk at all for 1st overall (Wright, Slaf, Cooley & Nemec were) and he was going to be drafted well before the 26th pick.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

Very fair. But it's HF boards and there will be hot takes. We are all just trying to do our best to play scout want a bees

Dude, you have the biggest hot takes on here.

 

[SannywithoutCompy]

Here's the thing.. Levshunov and Silayev are going in the 2-4 range, we are getting Demidov or Lindstrom. So the Sennecke talk against Iginla is just the worst case scenario if things shift heavily in the next few weeks.

Here's the interesting tidbits from The Athletic pod with Wheeler and Pronman at the combine.

• Hawks Athletic writer Scott Powers was on the podcast for the first half - Hawks interest and due diligence is severe and he believes that is who they are going to take. All of their major decision makers have gone to see Levshunov play and done it multiple times, it's an organization who values the live viewings and Kyle Davidson likes seeing those guys live. At 2 they want to remove as much risk from the profile as possible and believe this is the final piece of their defense while they expect to not be picking top 2 again, they still expect to pick in the top 7 next year.
• Wheeler saying a few people in the NHL are concerned about Demidov and CSKA, especially with his brother being in the organization. This is an organization known for pulling sketchy shit so that unknown piece could be enough to scare some teams off at the top of the draft, namely Chicago.
• There are some teams that have a concern on Lindstrom but the majority of them feel it isn't a concern at all. Sense Pronman gets around Lindstrom is that he's a top 5 pick. Wheeler says CBJ and MTL is where the conversation will happen on Lindstrom.
• Michael Hage is projected to go in the 15-22 range.
• Stian Solberg is a wildcard and could go very high, not in the top 10 but he's likely any time in the teens,
• Some teams have Iginla in the 6-9 range, others have him in the teens. Mentions Jack Quinn, Jarvis, Kemell as comparisons for Iginla about how hgih he can realistically go as scorers in that 5'11-6'0 range tend to not go top 5 unless they have Lucas Raymond level smarts and there's differing opinions on his sense. Pronman's sense is that while he has top 6 skills, he doesn't think he checks enough boxes to go top 5 at his height.
• Boisvert, you often always hear good things and that he has big intangibles and competitiveness which is viewed as a premiere asset to NHL clubs.

That's a huge relief, I get that RD is a "need" for us (although I have faith in DR and LM becoming top 4 RD for us), but I'm not a huge fan of Levshunov and wouldn't take him over any of Catton, Iginla, or Lindstrom.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Dude, you have the biggest hot takes on here.

Coming in hot as a mod bud. You should get a warning for this because it's flaming. Should I report it? . I expect better from you.

Yeah, I have an opinion and I defend it. And I defend it with lots of context too. I'm also active and post a lot so that exposes me. Not my problem how you comprehend my line of defense. There are lots of posters I disagree with and we get along fine. Then there are others who don't know how to handle a disagreement... those posters can go pound sand.

Do you want to go? List your hot takes. Lets see your examples. Put your money where your mouth is and show me how you have comprehended what I have said. I bet you either go away in the shadows or you post things with twists.

 

[Habs Icing]

I’m sorry, but if we pick Sennecke at 5 then we deserve to suck.

To suck at losing?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Uh, no?

They're not even close to being similar players. Lekkerimaki pretty much stayed in a general mid-1st pick range throughout his draft year. The only talk around Lekkerimaki would have been for the Mesar pick, and that one was far too late (#26).

Lekkerimaki was a completely undraftable player for us. He wasn’t in the talk at all for 1st overall (Wright, Slaf, Cooley & Nemec were) and he was going to be drafted well before the 26th pick.

Don't think he said there were similar players. I think he meant the talk about him being drafted earlier than 15th. Not sure if he meant the Habs should take him 5th or not.

Bob had Lekkerimaki 8th if I remember correctly.

 

[Balthazar]

I'm honestly baffled that Sennecke somehow became an acceptable top 5 pick in the last 2 weeks because some people on this board kept hammering his name and a cuckoo like McGagg loves him.

All the serious rankings right now have him outside of the top 10, with the majority having him at #14 or #15.

He's literally closer to a #20 pick than a #5 pick.

Yet, here we are...

 

[SannywithoutCompy]

Don't think he said there were similar players. I think he meant the talk about him being drafted earlier than 15th. Not sure if he meant the Habs should take him 5th or not.

Bob had Lekkerimaki 8th if I remember correctly.

Lekkerimaki was rumoured to be one of our targets as we were trading up for a mid 1st, but we ended up flipping that for Kirby.

That being said, Lekkerimaki was great this year and is looking like a mid 1st was where he should have very reasonably gone.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I’m sorry, but if we pick Sennecke at 5 then we deserve to suck.

100% agree. I like Sennecke as a potential top 6F but it would be a reach to take him 5th. The talent from 2-13/14 is hard to nail down but it's not all one waive of talent. More like 2 waives after Celebrini and Sennecke is in the 2nd waive. So is Catton. That's how I see it anyways.

I'm honestly baffled that Sennecke somehow became an acceptable top 5 pick in the last 2 weeks because some people on this board kept hammering his name and a cuckoo like McGagg loves him.

All the serious rankings right now have him outside of the top 10, with the majority having him at #14 or #15.

He's literally closer to a #20 pick than a #5 pick.

Yet, here we are...

Yeah, a few posters yesterday got all cranky when I said it would be a reach to take him 5th and he's not on any credible top 5 list. The replies I got was he was voted top 5 in 1/10 scouts Bob interviewed. Then it further spread to 1 top 5 and 2 top 10. Sure, but then the other scouts had him much worse because his final Ranking from Bob was 14th. Personally I have him in the 8-13 mix. A little better than bob but certainly not in the 2-7 range.

Lets see where Bob has him when he reveals his final list. He posted the top 15 only in May and I guess he can change it when he releases all of his list. I suspect Sennecke might get a better ranking than 14th.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Lekkerimaki was rumoured to be one of our targets as we were trading up for a mid 1st, but we ended up flipping that for Kirby.

That being said, Lekkerimaki was great this year and is looking like a mid 1st was where he should have very reasonably gone.

I vaguely remember some conversations about him but not too much traffic on it.

 

[Balthazar]

Yeah, a few posters yesterday got all cranky when I said it would be a reach to take him 5th and he's not on any credible top 5 list. The replies I got was he was voted top 5 in 1/10 scouts Bob interviewed. Then it further spread to 1 top 5 and 2 top 10. Sure, but then the other scouts had him much worse because his final Ranking from Bob was 14th. Personally I have him in the 8-13 mix. A little better than bob but certainly not in the 2-7 range.

Lets see where Bob has him when he reveals his final list. He posted the top 15 only in May and I guess he can change it when he releases all of his list. I suspect Sennecke might get a better ranking than 14th.

Sennecke simply is not a top 5 pick and would be one very bad case of "drafting for needs" that everyone used to hate so much.

Shameful.

 

[Pompeius Magnus]

Two kids and a wife back home

And a three packs a day habit, from the looks of it !

 

[Habs Halifax]

Sennecke simply is not a top 5 pick and would be one very bad case of "drafting for needs" that everyone used to hate so much.

Shameful.

I'm trying to be fair on this. I do like Sennecke's top 6F potential. He's got great hands and good size. Good offensive in stinks. Bob and McKeen has him 14th but I have him 8-13 ish.

However, at 5, you are shooting for a top line or top pairing talent. Standards need to be higher and not sure Sennecke has top line in him. Possible but I think it's more of a reach than when I look at others.

I see a Batherson type. It's just very difficult to know how much these players are obsessive at improving. When you look at Slaf and Suzuki, you can see the amount of work they put into it between games in in the off season. Does Sennecke have it? No idea

 

[Jaynki]

Sennecke simply is not a top 5 pick and would be one very bad case of "drafting for needs" that everyone used to hate so much.

Shameful.

Its the opposite in my opinion

Its all about the ultimate upside and growth potential.

I prefer other players at 5 but Sennecke is the potential homerun pick. Not need.

 

[Balthazar]

Its the opposite in my opinion

Its all about the ultimate upside and growth potential.

I prefer other players at 5 but Sennecke is the potential homerun pick. Not need.

If you want a homerun pick go Eiserman. If he hits you get a 55-60 goal guy.

Sennecke is 100% drafting for needs because the team don't want a defenseman or another small guy.

 

[ForeverHabs97]

LOL

https://x.com/i/web/status/1798755906920096151

 

[Deebs]

LOL

https://x.com/i/web/status/1798755906920096151

Bahaha....tell me about your childhood

 

[Shred]

View attachment 880169

You talkin 'bout me?

(Did he injure his shoulder? They are completely uneven. Might just be the way he is standing though)

Might be normal to have uneven shoulders as hockey players since the normal hockey stance is asymmetrical? Those divers who do the twists (vrilles) get really lopsided as well.