News & Notes XLV: Simply Having A Wonderful Canesmastime

[tarheelhockey]

I mean keep the white mask, it stands out in a good way in a league of ridiculous looking crap.

It reminds me of the minors when goalies get shuffled around so much that they don’t bother switching colors till a few months in. Almost charming, in a way.

 

[Joe McGrath]

It reminds me of the minors when goalies get shuffled around so much that they don’t bother switching colors till a few months in. Almost charming, in a way.

He looks like a beer league goalie right now. It doesn’t help that stylistically he plays a style you’re more likely to see in a high level 35+ beer league.

I don’t care - its just striking to see in an NHL game these days.

 

[tarheelhockey]

He looks like a beer league goalie right now. It doesn’t help that stylistically he plays a style you’re more likely to see in a high level 35+ beer league.

I don’t care - its just striking to see in an NHL game these days.

Yep, agreed. Since it’s happening in December of a year that we’ll most likely make the playoffs and not have him on the roster by that time, I’m loving it. If this were happening in May I’d feel very differently about it.

 

[Unhinged Finn]

Give him a helmet and he might turn into a Hasek.

 

[AD Skinner]

I love the all white bucket on goalies but I do hope he loses the blue and yellow

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

Picking up the discussion on our road woes from the CBJ gdt and moving it here. @Blueline Bomber you questioned Rod's system as it relates to being on the road and not having last change. On the surface it seems like that could be a factor and especially with our reliance on Staal shutting down opposing teams' top scorers, but I took a further look and I don't really think that's much of a factor at all.



Since Rod took over in 2018, on the road in the playoffs 5v5 we are actually +2 goal differential, better than all but 5 teams (Blues, Avs, Golden Knights, Flyers, Lightning). See table below. Also we are 4th in the league in that timeframe in road points percentage in the regular season at .614.

Team	GF 5v5	GA 5v5	5v5 +/-
St. Louis Blues	55​	36​	19​
Colorado Avalanche	92​	78​	14​
Vegas Golden Knights	70​	58​	12​
Philadelphia Flyers	20​	10​	10​
Tampa Bay Lightning	78​	73​	5​
Carolina Hurricanes	70​	68​	2​
Dallas Stars	82​	81​	1​
Los Angeles Kings	25​	24​	1​
Vancouver Canucks	23​	22​	1​
Toronto Maple Leafs	36​	36​	0​
Columbus Blue Jackets	19​	20​	-1​
Montréal Canadiens	25​	26​	-1​
Seattle Kraken	17​	18​	-1​
Winnipeg Jets	23​	24​	-1​
Boston Bruins	63​	66​	-3​
Minnesota Wild	17​	20​	-3​
New York Islanders	57​	61​	-4​
Chicago Blackhawks	11​	16​	-5​
Arizona Coyotes	7​	13​	-6​
Calgary Flames	17​	24​	-7​
San Jose Sharks	14​	21​	-7​
Florida Panthers	60​	69​	-9​
New Jersey Devils	7​	16​	-9​
Nashville Predators	18​	28​	-10​
New York Rangers	33​	44​	-11​
Edmonton Oilers	64​	76​	-12​
Pittsburgh Penguins	17​	31​	-14​
Washington Capitals	12​	36​	-24​

Not nearly as good as our +20 at home 5v5 but that's to be expected for pretty much any team from home to road.

Where our issue really lies in the playoffs on the road is in special teams, which doesn't really reflect Rod's system at all as PP and PK are pretty much 100% independent from his "system" and are not affected by last change and should have almost no difference between home and away other than crowd.

The numbers are frankly mindboggling. Again, these stats are since Rod took over:

Regular season:
Home net PP (rank): 20.9% (8th)
Home net PK (rank): 90.9% (1st)
Road net PP (rank): 19.0% (9th)
Road net PK (rank): 86.3% (2nd, but only behind Utah whose sample size is extremely small, so basically 1st)

Playoffs:
Home net PP (rank): 17.5% (12th)
Home net PK (rank): 85.5% (9th)
Road net PP (rank): 5.9% (23rd)
Road net PK (rank): 74.4% (23rd)


I think this ultimately sums up the root cause of our "failures" in the playoffs (in quotes because while we haven't won the Cup, hence failure, we've still had more playoff success since 2018 than all but like 5ish teams). The special teams drop off from regular season to playoffs on the road. I mean, seriously those playoff road numbers are just absolutely atrocious. I don't know why we have such a big issue with special teams on the road but it's quite clearly THE problem for us in the playoffs.

Maybe it can be chalked up to running into hot goalies and hot powerplays -- both of those things can be very voodoo and either very hot or very cold and in some ways there can just be some bad luck there. Examples are our series vs the Bolts and Rags, both of whom had goalies playing out of their minds and elite powerplays that happened to be firing on all cylinders when we faced them. But I can't say that for sure, or if it is our guys choking on the road in big moments (which all special teams situations are).


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That's all as it relates to playoffs and our history under Rod. I can't really put a finger on why we're struggling so much on the road this year so far as we've never really struggled in the past. May just be a small sample size and we'll turn it around at some point here. Or the guys are just complacent in the regular season and to some degree sleepwalking through it, especially for road games, knowing that playoffs is all that matters. I don't really know, but I'm nowhere near concerned about it given our past success.

 

[Svechhammer]

m0vE baCK tO HarTForD

 

[tarheelhockey]

m0vE baCK tO HarTForD

View attachment 955245

Really proud of how far the market has come. Someday the team will suck and the empty seats will be back, but unlike before there will always be proof that this can be a sellout market. That shuts up a lot of critics.

Also, I don’t want to hear a single word from Winnipeg ever again.

 

[bleedgreen]

Really proud of how far the market has come. Someday the team will suck and the empty seats will be back, but unlike before there will always be proof that this can be a sellout market. That shuts up a lot of critics.

Also, I don’t want to hear a single word from Winnipeg ever again.

I’m not trying to argue, I’m curious to how real a list this is. Winni at 92% is actually pretty damn good in my book but that’s my problem with whole list. We’re talking about small differences in numbers because almost the whole league is crushing it, which doesn’t seem to be the case when you watch the games. Florida always has a lot of empty seats in general and they’re at 98% here. I don’t believe that, and over a ten year period I would never believe that for attendance. People don’t go to regular season games there even when they’re good. They buy tickets….sure.

This kind of list has always had some….creativity to it. The Avs had a huge sellout record back in their real heyday and I was working on game nights back then. It was a total crock. Every listed sellout half the upper bowl was empty and everyone would just move down and fill the first handful of rows.

I just don’t trust it enough to talk smack about it and especially when someone is being slammed for being 95.2 vs 97.8 or whatever. If you’re over 90% you’re doing very well imo….if those numbers are accurate. Actual attendance vs tickets sold when corporations buy the tickets in bulk, then can’t find anyone to give them away to. It’s just a very inaccurate science to me. Not at all reflective of how many fans you’ve actually got showing up or how strong your market really is.

 

[Borsig]

I mean the worst teams in the league claim 85%.

I know during the dark days there were times I went to the PNC and saw less than 10K in seats easily. I have pics of my wife and I in the lower bowl about 3/4 of the way up (when we paid for uppers and they asked you to move down) and there is literally ONE guy (who looks like dale earnhardt lol) behind us. So, yeah.

You can see NO one in the 200s and one person in the rows behind me. I paid more to park for these games than I did a ticket. You could get uppers for like 20-25 each and just sit literally where ever you wanted.

The pic I have on fb is from 2015.

 

[A Star is Burns]

I’m not trying to argue, I’m curious to how real a list this is. Winni at 92% is actually pretty damn good in my book but that’s my problem with whole list. We’re talking about small differences in numbers because almost the whole league is crushing it, which doesn’t seem to be the case when you watch the games. Florida always has a lot of empty seats in general and they’re at 98% here. I don’t believe that, and over a ten year period I would never believe that for attendance. People don’t go to regular season games there even when they’re good. They buy tickets….sure.

This kind of list has always had some….creativity to it. The Avs had a huge sellout record back in their real heyday and I was working on game nights back then. It was a total crock. Every listed sellout half the upper bowl was empty and everyone would just move down and fill the first handful of rows.

I just don’t trust it enough to talk smack about it and especially when someone is being slammed for being 95.2 vs 97.8 or whatever. If you’re over 90% you’re doing very well imo….if those numbers are accurate. Actual attendance vs tickets sold when corporations buy the tickets in bulk, then can’t find anyone to give them away to. It’s just a very inaccurate science to me. Not at all reflective of how many fans you’ve actually got showing up or how strong your market really is.

 

[bleedgreen]

View attachment 955434

Is this my new bat signal?!? I’m the resident wet blanket.

I’ll defend myself to this point….how do you take a list seriously that has 103% on it….

 

[Blueline Bomber]

If the ticket is sold, it's considered a seat filled and part of a sellout, whether or not the person shows up to the game or not.

I know Carolina has had a few games this past year where there were obviously open sections of empty seats, but we still called it a sellout.

 

[Borsig]

If the ticket is sold, it's considered a seat filled and part of a sellout, whether or not the person shows up to the game or not.

I know Carolina has had a few games this past year where there were obviously open sections of empty seats, but we still called it a sellout.

This. IDK how many of these are resellers who arent really STM fans or people not going. I mean If I'm paid, I am probably going even if the team is batting 500. When I was an STM before the fall and dark ages (partial package) I never left games on the table.

It seems there are often empty seats in the low bowl on TV. Im guessing these are resellers not "fans" just not showing up.

Last few times we made the drive we got destroyed by TB, (like 2-8) and LA (jwilly night) and lost to Dallas. IN face the last 4 times I've gone we lost, and a few of them have been in a bad way. We were going to plan to go around the holidays, but the team decided to start shitting themselves mid november and I am kinda tired of driving 3.5 hours and paying 400 plus bucks for room, tix, concessions, and parking to lose. I think the last game we were at was the home game vs Dallas last year. We went to Jwilly night (beat by kings) and A game vs tampa where we lost like 2-8. I think we were supposed to go to the FLA game this year at home where we got smashed up too, and I had to end up working or something. Usually I'd have gone to say probably 2 by now, but the random garbage and the last 4 losses I went to kinda left me not into it.

Its not like I can just drive over and back in an hour and a half like I used to.

 

[bleedgreen]

If the ticket is sold, it's considered a seat filled and part of a sellout, whether or not the person shows up to the game or not.

I know Carolina has had a few games this past year where there were obviously open sections of empty seats, but we still called it a sellout.

I know this, it’s my point. How do you judge the quality of a market as a group of fans criticizing another market when this is the concept in the first place? Our corporations buy more bulk than yours?

 

[A Star is Burns]

Is this my new bat signal?!? I’m the resident wet blanket.

I’ll defend myself to this point….how do you take a list seriously that has 103% on it….

Well, the over 100% seems pretty obvious. Standing room only is not part of an arena's officially listed capacity.

And it's long been known that it's not butts in seats. Your points are all valid but it is a bit yelly at cloud.

 

[Joe McGrath]

I’m not trying to argue, I’m curious to how real a list this is. Winni at 92% is actually pretty damn good in my book but that’s my problem with whole list. We’re talking about small differences in numbers because almost the whole league is crushing it, which doesn’t seem to be the case when you watch the games. Florida always has a lot of empty seats in general and they’re at 98% here. I don’t believe that, and over a ten year period I would never believe that for attendance. People don’t go to regular season games there even when they’re good. They buy tickets….sure.

This kind of list has always had some….creativity to it. The Avs had a huge sellout record back in their real heyday and I was working on game nights back then. It was a total crock. Every listed sellout half the upper bowl was empty and everyone would just move down and fill the first handful of rows.

I just don’t trust it enough to talk smack about it and especially when someone is being slammed for being 95.2 vs 97.8 or whatever. If you’re over 90% you’re doing very well imo….if those numbers are accurate. Actual attendance vs tickets sold when corporations buy the tickets in bulk, then can’t find anyone to give them away to. It’s just a very inaccurate science to me. Not at all reflective of how many fans you’ve actually got showing up or how strong your market really is.

This is just for this season so I’m not sure why you don’t think Florida is averaging 95%. Its like 20 home games in and they just won the cup. The game i went to this year seemed full. I went on a Tuesday vs Edmonton last year (no invading fans) and it was pretty damn full.

The year before I could get $50 seats in the 200s easily. Now? Not so much. Things have changed, unsurprisingly due to their recent success.

 

[bleedgreen]

Well, the over 100% seems pretty obvious. Standing room only is not part of an arena's officially listed capacity.

And it's long been known that it's not butts in seats. Your points are all valid but it is a bit yelly at cloud.

Sro is still a defined number, they still sell a planned amount of a tickets to it. Fire codes say they can put x amount of people in these areas, they make their team policy presumably a bit less but it’s a finite number which they dictate. Maybe they only sell them in certain occasions but their inclusion when factoring capacity would seem to be obvious. That’s your actual capacity and if you aren’t selling all those out you aren’t at “100%”.

When factoring your ticket sales you shouldn’t be able to say “ours go to 11…”

 

[A Star is Burns]

Sro is still a defined number, they still sell a planned about of a tickets to it. Fire codes say they can put x amount of people in these areas, they make their team policy presumably a bit less but it’s a finite number which they dictate. Maybe they only sell them in certain occasions but their inclusion when factoring capacity would seem to be obvious. That’s your actual capacity and if you aren’t selling all those out you aren’t at “100%”.

When factoring your ticket sales you shouldn’t be able to say “ours go to 11…”

The official capacity is 18,700. They have games this year with attendance above that (yes, with the caveat that not every person was physically in the building). While I do think there are some teams and stadiums/arenas that might have a permanent amount of SRO factored in, I think most teams do not. I don't think the Canes offer it unless a game is selling super well or it's a big game/playoffs. This year, the first two games I saw them go over capacity with a quick look were opening night and against the Caps.

 

[hblueridgegal]

There was a discussion on BlueSky this week about the technical sellouts. Mostly about how some season ticket holders are taking a bath on resale and how they feel that the market has hit its ceiling for now re: lower bowl seating. They have been sharing their feelings with their ticket reps. A few folks said they won’t renew at that level or at all as it makes more sense now to buy as they go from a financial and convenience perspective.

There was some discussion re: loss of revenue for concessions and merch sales when no one is actually filling the seats like before.

 

[Svechhammer]

There was a discussion on BlueSky this week about the technical sellouts. Mostly about how some season ticket holders are taking a bath on resale and how they feel that the market has hit its ceiling for now re: lower bowl seating. They have been sharing their feelings with their ticket reps. A few folks said they won’t renew at that level or at all as it makes more sense now to buy as they go from a financial and convenience perspective.

There was some discussion re: loss of revenue for concessions and merch sales when no one is actually filling the seats like before.

I went to buy tickets for the 12th and the cheapest tickets I could find was $70 per in the upper bowl. Lower bowl, good luck finding anything under $200 per

Crazy shit

 

[To Be Determined]

I went to buy tickets for the 12th and the cheapest tickets I could find was $70 per in the upper bowl. Lower bowl, good luck finding anything under $200 per

Crazy shit

I mean, that specific game has a bit of an added demand factor, what with it being a number retirement. No argument prices are still high on the regular, but that one isn't a great example due to the special event aspect.

 

[Svechhammer]

I mean, that specific game has a bit of an added demand factor, what with it being a number retirement. No argument prices are still high on the regular, but that one isn't a great example due to the special event aspect.

I mean fair, but at the same time, it's not much better on other nights.

You're still talking about $60 tickets being sold by the Canes (not resale) for the last 2 rows of the upper deck.

 

[bleedgreen]

The official capacity is 18,700. They have games this year with attendance above that (yes, with the caveat that not every person was physically in the building). While I do think there are some teams and stadiums/arenas that might have a permanent amount of SRO factored in, I think most teams do not. I don't think the Canes offer it unless a game is selling super well or it's a big game/playoffs. This year, the first two games I saw them go over capacity with a quick look were opening night and against the Caps.

Not factoring a set amount of SRO is nonsensical though, is it not? You know exactly how many people you are legally allowed to bring inside for an event.

I don’t actually care at all. This becomes a fun discussion when we get into debates about a list like this where some people attribute actual value to it and then use it in market quality conversations. There’s no actual value in these numbers if they don’t count SRO that they have available on some occasions when they feel the need. There can’t actually be a value of 103% in a legitimate conversation about market quality. Is there a governing body checking the accuracy of these numbers? It’s a crappy way to view the market anyways as companies buy the tickets as perks for clients and employees and so many don’t get used in every market. It’s a sign of support by the business community of course.

I think if you’re going to judge the quality of the market the way we want to as fans it should be purely based on fannies actually in the building.

 

[hblueridgegal]

I mean fair, but at the same time, it's not much better on other nights.

You're still talking about $60 tickets being sold by the Canes (not resale) for the last 2 rows of the upper deck.

I have received text offers a few times over the past few months for much less from them for the college night series games spread across the season and some random mid-week ones in Nov and Dec. Once it was $20 for uppers.