seafoam
Let It Happen
- May 17, 2011
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Jesse Graham and Doyle Somerby take me back! But seriously, these guys need a job? What a stupid question.
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It's really odd, but there was a time where it was considered normal to criticize public figures (athletes or otherwise) for making professional choices given a context of significant conflict. It's actually stupid to deligitimize the point of view a person in a Baltic country that is actually threatened just because you don't share that perspective. And by 'stupid', I mean myopic, ignorant, lacking imagination, empathy, etc. You don't have to agree with Irbe, but it really is stupid not to appreciate that he has reasons even if you don't share them.
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Richie Daggers Crime
Boosted 9 times double masked they/them
If by stupid, you meant something else, why didn't you just say the something else?
Idk, is it surprising there are multiple ways or facets one could display a certain quality? For example, does it puzzle you that dictionaries don't define words in the following way?
stupid (adj) df: in the manner of being or showing stupidity.
Islanders4Cups
Registered User
Besides that fact we are in a serious conflict with Russia right now (make no mistake we are) I think the US players are crazy to play in Russia considering the example being made of the women’s basketball star there.
One slip-up and you are likely to become famous in the wrong place to be famous as an American. It Is pretty likely you will be tested on your point of view and you best respond according to what is acceptable. Your life may depend on it.
One slip-up and you are likely to become famous in the wrong place to be famous as an American. It Is pretty likely you will be tested on your point of view and you best respond according to what is acceptable. Your life may depend on it.
Richie Daggers Crime
Boosted 9 times double masked they/them
It seems like you chose to do it a certain way.
Tbh I'm not surprised stuff like that might not occur to the rest of them (especially for the rapist), but I'm pretty surprised that the Black, Jewish guy whose Mom's family fled Russia is going there given the context. I mean, you could call their history there... pogromatic.
danteipp
Registered User
- Aug 3, 2005
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That was my thought as well, especially for the players going to Russia for the first time, who might not fully understand the culture.
You have to be very careful with respect to the law but also keep your head down and your opinions to your self.
Given all of the uncertainty and potential downside, personally I would rather take a little less money and play in the AHL or another International league.
It feels like the risk outweighs the reward right now.
doublechili
For all intensive purposes, your nuts
- Apr 11, 2006
- 19,159
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What are the odds that the tweet was typed using a device produced by (to some extent) underpaid, exploited and/or underage workers? Ditto for the sneakers he was wearing while typing. You have to be careful pointing the finger at other people.
Richie Daggers Crime
Boosted 9 times double masked they/them
The thing is, as astutely as another poster put it, you have to have empathy for these individuals. They're doing the best they can in life, with a limited time window of opportunity, and are making the decision that suits them and their family.
They're not worried.
Even if such an unfortunate happenstance takes place, they know their current government will just broker off some captured spy or won over rocket scientist to get their US-born athlete back in the fold.
Ain't no thang.
Or could other identity politics factors play a role in making them less interesting for their government?
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Well, technically, they can get good paying jobs in a variety of leagues around Europe without sacrificing their image in the process. Particularly Graham had a huge season in the DEL last year and was heavily sought after by teams in i.e. the SHL and Swiss NL. There's some good money there.
But it's naturally their choice to go to the highest bidder, scruples be damned. I think Szemberg is trying to shed light on this so as to get the hockey media landscape to paint them as piecess of s§$% for basically selling out to dictator government that is currently holding the world in check as an aggressive force. Sure, a lot of people aren't gonna think that's all that cool of him.
Hopefully these players' agents informed them that pay delays and even the inability to pay whatsoever is not uncommon throughout the KHL. Could be a real bitch be actively damaging your own image and then not even get paid in the processso.
And are these guys even allowed to take that money out of Russia? Isn't there like an absolute freeze on money movement from Russian banks and the like?
Heck, I can't even PayPal a Russian email address...
The Bout for Griner + Whelan deal hasn't happened yet. And the US doesn't have any high-value chips interesting from the Russian pov once Bout is gone.
Identity politics was precisely why she was made an example of by Russia. Let's be clear, if Reid Boucher solicits a minor in Russia, he's probably not going to a prison camp for 10 years. Putin is leveraging a Black woman in order to exploit pre-eixsting political divisions in the United States. And putting that way is euphemistic. You are, no doubt, aware by Putin's cultivation of, on the one hand Schroder, and on the other the AfD just how this works. It's just a little more complicated in Germany, because some of the German ethno fascists have relationshps with Ukranian ethno fascisits. But that complciation does not exist in the US.
The risk isn't really there for these hockey players. There ought to be a risk to their reputations, but it helps to have people over here white knighting for them.
seafoam
Let It Happen
- May 17, 2011
- 61,481
- 11,009
Of course, but we don't know what these players were getting offered outside of the KHL. My point was they are clearly doing what they think is the best for them and their families, even if it seems like a mistake from a myriad of angles. You have to respect that to some degree...
Regarding payment, I have no clue. My guess would be they are getting paid through an offshore account in the Cayman Islands or something like that.
Yep, this is something I'd love to find out about in light of the current situtation.
No, it hasn't yet. Will it even?
But every single US athlete who heads to Russia is susceptable to becoming a tool to some end for Putin's government. And the payment they'll be receiving from their respective KHL teams is all coming from the government-dominated system of oligarchs Putin himself established. Not an entity currently capable of outpaying the other competition in Europe has money independent of the government warchest to spend.
Yes, absolutely. And Putin will continue to do so.
And it's not just Russia.
China, Iran, North Korea, heck, even the Turkeys of the world very well see the divide within western society, particularly in North America, surely viewing and making use of it as a form of weakness, hoping that predominantly North America and Europe will implode and then crumble under continual exterior pressures such as the waves of refugees that these other nations happily help co-create and pass along.
These are tools and maneuvers of a cold war.
This all said, yes, my point was that these predominantly caucasian ice hockey players would be less interesting in the cat and mouse hostage games or as pawns to some other extent.
But they gotta know that their passport in this day and age places them in Russia with a target on their back. You're never untouchable, much less in such a state of propaganda and manipulation.
It is interesting and a reason why I'm almost as dumbfounded as Szemberg when it comes to the relative silence in the ice hockey media landscape in North America. For those who really follow at, say, Twitter, you cannot say that there is any lack of SJWs among the many well-known hockey voices out there. And they happily voice their opinions on any and every socio-political topic that pops up. As if it's their duty.
But mum seems to be the word on this front. Thus far.
It's not, for example, in Sweden. Their big hockey journalists have been very vocal and critical about Swedish players still taking a paycheck in Russia.
JKP
Registered User
On Chiclits once Whit mentioned he was paid in cash and had to bring like a suitcase of it home or something.
The Lighthouse
Registered User
- Aug 1, 2011
- 2,869
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Obviously if they're going to Russia to play, they've calculated it is within their best interests at this time. What doesn't follow is that making a decision in your personal best interest means that the decision is shielded from any scrutiny, with merit or without, and you're entitled to any particular respect for it.
gordie43
Registered User
- Nov 21, 2008
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Britney Grenier broke the law, she is being used as a pawn by both US government and Russian government for their own benefit. To think that Grenier’s punishment is too much means you have not done a simple google search of others who have received sharp punishment for drug offenses in Russia.
One of my favorite segments on Chiclets is players telling their stories on how they got paid. I think there was a Snow story of him stuffing money in his pads and heading back to the USA.
The Real JT
The crowd called out for more
I wish only a positive outcome for Griner but I have clear misgivings about trading her freedom for a convicted arms dealer indirectly responsible for murder and mayhem around the world.
While this rule is not absolute it is appropriate here: Don’t negotiate with terrorists.
I guess that’s OT. Sorry.
While this rule is not absolute it is appropriate here: Don’t negotiate with terrorists.
I guess that’s OT. Sorry.
eoin92
Registered User
- Jun 14, 2013
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Agreed. if you’re going to travel to a foreign country, especially one that is hostile towards Americans, don’t break the law.
Mike C
Registered User
The Real JT
The crowd called out for more
Even better, don’t go.
It’s not out of the realm of possibility for a law abiding US citizen to be framed and jailed to advance the negotiating power of a ruthless foreign regime.
JKP
Registered User
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