Post-Game Talk: New York Rangers at Vegas Golden Knights - January 8

[Machinehead]

What about this defense is playing to the strengths of the roster and the system? This defense, especially with McDonagh looking like a shell of himself still lacks skating ability as well as talent. I dont think thats the case at all TBH.

How do we know they lack skating ability? They're not allowed to skate.

 

[Rangers in 7]

Like I said..I missed whatever caused the turnover but what I did see was #22 letting the GWG go right past him and take it to the net completely uncontested..

Wait were we watching the same game? I saw a blown coverage by 3 forwards and 1 dmen who wasn’t wearing 22....

 

[aufheben]

What about this defense is playing to the strengths of the roster and the system? This defense, especially with McDonagh looking like a shell of himself still lacks skating ability as well as talent. I dont think thats the case at all TBH.

It just seems like it’s not important with this team. I just can’t imagine AV being an idiot. The team is obviously terrible defensively.

 

[Machinehead]

It just seems like it’s not important with this team. I just can’t imagine AV being an idiot. The team is obviously terrible defensively.

He's not an idiot.

He's just nuts and has a serious god complex.

 

[Machinehead]

Matter of fact, I would prefer an idiot. Torts was an idiot. At least an idiot adheres to the simple tenets of the game.

 

[Rangers in 7]

Shattenkirk is literally the only Rangers skater in this clip NOT completely ****ing up.


Watch him do it anyway.

This is an excellent post

 

[Rangers in 7]

Shattenkirk skated with him keeping him to the outside until he made his pass. Nieves and Skjei were both at the top of the near circle leaving Karlsson wide open on the far side.

Here's a screenshot:


Here's a Gif:



The only reason Karlsson is so wide open and the pass is able to even be made and get to him is because Skjei and Nieves aren't where they're supposed to be. How you can watch that and say it's on Shattenkirk completely boggles my mind.

If I could love this post I would

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

Edit: Yep, this got really, really long. I have a tendency to write walls of text (sorry).

A few things:

- A fast transition team seems to have been our identity for the past few years now, but I really feel like we've just lost that touch. If you go back to watching the Hawks game or even points of today, you would see the opponent quickly transition out from defense to offense, and score off a rush. Whereas with us, us trying to get the puck out feels so labored these days. We make passes side to side, try for a stretch pass into the neutral zone, of which many times it gets stopped. It's pretty frustrating and I wish I knew why this was the case. The only thing I've come to is that we don't have the best defensive system in place and/or we could really use a guy like Charlie McAvoy or Dougie Hamilton. (And I don't mean them specifically, as those aren't players you just come by. But I guess to give you an idea of what I'm thinking of).

- On that last note, do you guys think we "over bit" on the puck moving/skating defensemen? Are we so hell bent on having good offense that we basically said "**** it" to any kind of traditional D? I'm genuinely asking, by the way. I guess it's because when I think about how we brought in Lindy Ruff (who coached an absolutely disgusting-but-in-a-good-way offensive Dallas team), the type of defensemen we've tried to bring in, and the type of style AV likes (I guess fast transition, speed, cycle, opportunistic?), it just screams a **** ton of offense. But I wonder if it's been at the sacrifice of our D. It certainly feels like day in and day out, our only defensemen is the goalie.

- However, what I find weird is how well we seemed to play last season. I wish I could go back and watch old games because I do feel like we were a lot better last season when Beuk was behind the bench. I know our forwards would often go back and help the D and maybe that helped our game a bit more? What I also find interesting is how our D just seem so damn handcuffed these days. Last season it seemed like they were at least able to skate around more, score, etc. Whereas now...man, I'm not even sure what they're even doing except pinching in a lot/contribute to cycling. I wonder if this is a style that Ruff has them playing.

- To further add to this, I've also mentioned this elsewhere, but I really feel like the mindset of this team has changed a lot. They used to "****IN DEFEND!!!" as Torts would so eloquently put, but I think since AV came in, it's been very offensively-minded. I think a lot of us can agree with this, and it's certainly why it has made the team a lot of fun to watch (well, when it works). But there have been a few instances that have stuck out for me this season. I remember there was a game where we were being pressured in our own zone. When we finally got the puck, someone at the blue line started skating out, passed our blue line, thinking the puck would make it through to them. Unfortunately, the pass slowed down (maybe a tip/block/poor shot, whatever) and this allowed the opponent to bum in our zone for longer, and eventually get a good SOG/goal. To me, that just seems very telling the team is adamant on being opportunistic/scoring. Whereas if they had just waited a bit, got the puck, then **** like that wouldn't have happened.

- To further add to this, it seems like our forecheck is completely non-existent at times. There are periods where you see the guys just turtle, and I think what they are waiting for is the opponent to shoot a few pucks, allow Hank (or Pavs) to make a save/rebound, before they go out and carry the puck out. And I think because they are being pressured in the zone, sometimes the opponent's D will pinch in. We have a few fast enough skaters so if they can just get an extra step/catch the opponent flat footed, sometimes they can get opportunities going. This isn't necessarily a bad thing but I do feel like it's dangerous to sit back too much, especially if you're up against offensive/aggressive teams (eg. like Leafs, Hawks, and apparently Knights, too!). I mention this point because I do think it ties in a little bit with the idea of "waiting for the team to screw up before you get going".

- I will say, maybe the lack of good offensive opportunities can be tied with us trying to play better defensively (which I think we did today). I've noticed it a lot with the team where, when they do defend well, it seems to be at the sacrifice of the offense (and the inverse could be said as well). I also think this has led to some of the inconsistencies with the team -- we can get very polarizing play where it's just pure offense or pure defense. I hope we can find a balance.

- I will say though, it certainly didn't help to have Hayes out, Kreider out, Zucc sick, and Zib slowly coming back into the lineup. I also think McD is off and on hurt. I think Pavs did a fantastic job and wish he would get more starts - I think he deserves it! I also like what I am seeing from Vinny Lettieri. Maybe he doesn't have the most accurate kind of shot but I love his speed and willingness to just drive to the net. With Kreider out of the lineup, it's something I think we still need. If there's anything that's been interesting about this season, is seeing how good our prospect depth might be. I've been pleasantly surprised by Boo Nieves and I hope I can feel the same way about Lettieri.

Any ways, I didn't mean to make this so long or pessimistic. I think some of it has been building up lately! I don't think we necessarily have a bad team, by the way. Rather, I think my frustration with the coaching is growing and I don't know what to do. I feel like a lot of our issues is a systems thing and when that is the problem, it just casts a huge shadow over this team. Ah well. Regardless of how we end up down this second half or so of the season, I hope we can at least maximize as much as we can. I don't just mean in terms of making the Playoffs or whatever, but I want to see the kids get a fair shot at the ice, to properly develop. Whether we win or lose games, I want it to be because we played a good game and not just hanging on by the seat of our pants, y'know?

I read your whole post.

The answer is roster progression and regression is sigmoidal.

This is a transition time. The team has limited identity. I just hope they don’t double down again or we will be f***ed for years.

Enjoy the ride for a bit fellas.

 

[Samuel Culper III]

The team, to me, is just too much of the same thing. Obviously some of these guys are bigger or more physical than the rest and some are much faster than the others, or better defensively than others but, to me:

Miller, Kreider, Hayes, Vesey, Nash, Fast, Grabner, Nieves, Carey, McDonagh, Skjei, Staal, Holden, Smith

Are all damn near the same player. None of them can really pass. None of them really has hands. Miller and Vesey will make some nice moves in tight sometimes. Some of them have some wheels. Some are much better defensively than the rest. But overall we just have one flavor on this team.

Buch, Zucc, Ziba and Shattenkirk are the only ones who bring a different game. And honestly, Ziba and Shatty’s games aren’t that unique from the rest, they just have a bit more skill. And going a step further, even Buch and Zucc, who have the most actual stand out skill, end up playing like the rest of the guys so that they end up being less unique.

I don’t know if that’s a system thing or not. I certainly don’t like the system but I also do think it’s a personnel issue. Now, I think a lot of the players we have are good players. I think the issue isn’t with player quality but with sameness. So how do you make decisions of which of these very similar players to move on from and which to keep? What we need is a greater variety in our players skill sets that has some cohesion. All this sameness isn’t necessarily cohesive. It’s just bland. I have no suggestions on how to fix it. A guy like Chytil panning out would be big.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

Sure..He should've just held the guys hand, walked him to the net and put the puck in for him.
You see the plays he's made earlier in the game where just allows opposing fwds just wander where ever they want?
Is your man love really clouding your judgment to the point where you can't recognize what a disaster he is in his own end?
Dude stop lol

Man love? What the hell are you talking about? If you're asking for my personal opinion on Shattenkirk it's that he's not great in his own zone but what he brings in other aspects of his game makes up for it.

On this particular play, he's not at fault. My judgement isn't clouded by anything, I'm just looking at what happened. It's pretty clear that if you're putting that goal is Shattenkirk's fault then you're the one with clouded judgement.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

It just seems like it’s not important with this team. I just can’t imagine AV being an idiot. The team is obviously terrible defensively.

If the team brought in a coach to intentionally build the perfect system for this roster, the overall results would be the same.

They do not have the horses right now.

I mean that’s doesn’t mean AV should be here in the long term plans, which I don’t think he is, but I see people overestimating the potential of a lot of players on the team [at least in regard to potential for this year ].

 

[Kaapo Kakko]

I don't care what Vegas record is. We lost to an expansion team, in the middle of a heated playoff race, and I'm peeved.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I love Skjei but the guy could egg Mike Richter's house and no one would bat an eye.

I agree and I mentioned this last season and got a ton of flack for it, but with all the problems this team has, I don't think Skjei is anywhere near worth mentioning on the list of problems with this team. Its so far down the list.

He's a top 4 D who looks better defensively this season. Some claimed he'd be better than McDonagh, and I think its clear he will not be that. He doesn't have much offensive ability, although he doesn't have none. He's really not even worth mentioning, unless he does something really well. He gets the ice time he deserves, he's one of our better defensemen, ELC. Good, effective hockey player. I know his corsi stats suck, but don't we have like 1 player with a higher corsi than 50% this season? We get shelled in possession, I don't think Skjei is a main culprit for that.

 

[culex]

I read your whole post.

The answer is roster progression and regression is sigmoidal.

This is a transition time. The team has limited identity. I just hope they don’t double down again or we will be ****ed for years.

Enjoy the ride for a bit fellas.

This is something I have also wondered about. I knew last year was a progression/transition type of year. I went into this season treating it as such as well, however, I think I am a lot more depressed about it given the fact that I have begun questioning the coaching. And when that becomes the case, I can't help but wonder if this will put us back a few seasons. Then with Hank in the back of my mind, it sorta adds that bit of anxiety! But you're right, maybe this is the actual effect of retooling.

Thanks for your reply, though. In a way, it's kind of reassuring. But as you also said, I do think this season could be a bigger break/make point for the team; more than what it's being given credit for.

The other thing is I started following the team when they were on the upswing so maybe it's about time I experience a team going through some major changes (!!). Cheers.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

I don't care what Vegas record is. We lost to an expansion team, in the middle of a heated playoff race, and I'm peeved.

Everyone else in the league in their barn too.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

This is something I have also wondered about. I knew last year was a progression/transition type of year. I went into this season treating it as such as well, however, I think I am a lot more depressed about it given the fact that I have begun questioning the coaching. And when that becomes the case, I can't help but wonder if this will put us back a few seasons. Then with Hank in the back of my mind, it sorta adds that bit of anxiety! But you're right, maybe this is the actual effect of retooling.

Thanks for your reply, though. In a way, it's kind of reassuring. But as you also said, I do think this season could be a bigger break/make point for the team; more than what it's being given credit for.

The other thing is I started following the team when they were on the upswing so maybe it's about time I experience a team going through some major changes (!!). Cheers.

Sather should have looked himself in the mirror and started the transition earlier in 2014-2015 instead of that f***ing Yandle trade, but I digress.

 

[culex]

Sather should have looked himself in the mirror and started the transition earlier in 2014-2015 instead of that ****ing Yandle trade, but I digress.

Hm, I actually thought that was our last good year. If our D hadn't been skating on broken legs, Zucc wasn't out, I think we had a genuinely very, very good chance at winning it all.

If there's anything I'm upset about, it's probably the 2015-16 year; (i) trading for Eric Staal (and not even utilizing him well) and (ii) not trading Yandle at the deadline. With the latter, Dallas was willing to give up a conditional first for Kris Russell. Now imagine what we could have gotten for Yandle! I'm not sure what about that team the management thought would be good enough to be a buyer/go all in...but they did it any ways.

Ah well. I guess the past is the past. I just hope good decisions will be made down the road this time.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Seems like I missed a good one

 

[TheTakedown]

Like I said..I missed whatever caused the turnover but what I did see was #22 letting the GWG go right past him and take it to the net completely uncontested..

Dead f***ing wrong. Shattenkirk played his man all the way down the ice.

Skjei on the other hand completely blew coverage on karlsson

 

[DanielBrassard]

Hm, I actually thought that was our last good year. If our D hadn't been skating on broken legs, Zucc wasn't out, I think we had a genuinely very, very good chance at winning it all.

If there's anything I'm upset about, it's probably the 2015-16 year; (i) trading for Eric Staal (and not even utilizing him well) and (ii) not trading Yandle at the deadline. With the latter, Dallas was willing to give up a conditional first for Kris Russell. Now imagine what we could have gotten for Yandle! I'm not sure what about that team the management thought would be good enough to be a buyer/go all in...but they did it any ways.

Ah well. I guess the past is the past. I just hope good decisions will be made down the road this time.

Couldn't agree more Culex. I wanted us to sell off pieces at the 15-16 deadline, that team was absolute trash. As of this point, this team isn't much better, maybe worse, and hopefully the FO does the right thing.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Here's the quotes from the coach that I was talking about.

 

[Mike in Houston]

"I just felt it was the right thing to do."

 

[Kaapo Cabana]

Lettieri should stay in the lineup though.

Its Carey I would take out.

 

[East Coast Bias]

I don't care what Vegas record is. We lost to an expansion team, in the middle of a heated playoff race, and I'm peeved.

This was respectable compared to the last week or so. Smoked by CHI, lost to DET and needed OT to beat awful Arizona and Buffalo teams.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

Lettieri should stay in the lineup though.

Its Carey I would take out.

DD out.
Center depth should be
Mika
Hayes
Miller
Boo