New World Championships attendance record

[Urbanskog]

What I'm saying even if the tickets were given free, its not fake or bad thing at all. Every country could give free tickets if they cared so much about the atmosphere. It's free choise. I get that most countries wont do that but it doesn't mean we should criticize Belarus about it. This is not only business for every one. I found it actually funny if people see giving free tickets to make the atmosphere better as some sort of bad thing or wrong. Aguess you can go too far (in my opinion) with capitalist thinking, too. With countries like Belarus, and perhaps Russia, its some times just good to let them do things their way. If in Soviet Russia the ticket buys you, then its like that

This. People seem to view it as a bad thing that not all the seats were empty.

 

[Namejs]

This. People seem to view it as a bad thing that not all the seats were empty.

It's one thing discussing whether it's a good or a bad practice, but it's an entirely different thing to say that it didn't take place and that actually Belarusians simply really love their hockey.

 

[Domenica]

Nice strawman there, Ms. Wurst.

The argument can be boiled down to: the attendance record in Minsk can't be compared with the attendance rates in Europe, because no other country to my knowledge has handed out tickets for free to such large groups of people.

Just because they have the attendance record (all props to them for that), it doesn't mean that there are necessarily any lessons to take home for the organizers of the next IWHC events in Europe.

Nor does it mean that hockey is getting more popular or that IHWC is highly popular in Europe (as some posters from NA suggested earlier). The attendance rate in Minsk has nothing to do with that.

In a free-market situation the attendance rate in Belarus would be MUCH lower. Essentially, the IIHF made profits from the ticket sales through government sponsorship, which can only happen in Belarus (or other authoritarian regimes, potentially).

So unless you suggest that we should copy the way the Belarusians organized the event, I don't quite understand what point exactly are you trying to make here.

Who is putting words in whose mouth now?

I didn't talk about any lessons other countries should learn or that hockey is getting more popular.

Initially I was responding to another poster who seemed to think that people were hired to cheer for the wrong team (in this case a Belarusian with a Finnish jersey).

You complained about the Belarus fans chanting "Belarus" in games where Belarus wasn't playing (see here for an explanation btw). What's the purpose of that statement if not to put down Belarusian fans? Or is that your proof that tickets were handed out to the unassuming public?

Feel free to show me any news articles, twitter posts or statistics that show that most of the tickets were given out for free.

 

[svartgul]

This record isn't real when the fans aren't real paying costumers. They are getting free tickets/paid by the government to fill the arena and cheer for everything and everyone.

Not meant to be political but where are the liberals screaming about holding a tournament in Belarus-a govt controlled by a self proclaimed Dictator and country has some of worse human rights in europe-Please explain

There's definitely been discussions about this issue in the Swedish press regarding this tournament. However I wonder why this is an only liberal issue, I gather you're an american since all your politics are always geared toward faulting the other team without any reasoned debate whatsoever.

 

[Namejs]

Initially I was responding to another poster who seemed to think that people were hired to cheer for the wrong team (in this case a Belarusian with a Finnish jersey).

Yup, that is true, and their reward was a ticket to the game.

What's the purpose of that statement if not to put down Belarusian fans? Or is that your proof that tickets were handed out to the unassuming public?

It's obviously proof that they would rather be watching the Belarus game.

Feel free to show me any news articles, twitter posts or statistics that show that most of the tickets were given out for free.

You mean news articles from Belarus? From the Belarus state media? Twitter posts? From whom? A 60 year old Belarusian guy who has never been online? You obviously don't know much about the political situation in Belarus and the way things are organized in authoritarian regimes.

But fortunately there are some articles and blog posts about the issue. They're almost exclusively in Russian, though. Here's a good one: http://rumol.org/2014/05/23/kak-minsk-pobil-rekord-poseshhaemosti-po-xokkeyu-ili-kak-popast-na-match-besplatno/

In short: pretty much anyone could watch the games after the 1st period, if the seats were empty.

 

[xxxx]

It's one thing discussing whether it's a good or a bad practice, but it's an entirely different thing to say that it didn't take place and that actually Belarusians simply really love their hockey.

Who really cares. It's good for hockey.

 

[Cruor]

Who really cares. It's good for hockey.

There's plenty of reasons to care, like there were reasons to boycott the 1936 Olympics or the World Cup in Argentina in 1978. We don't need fake crowds ushered in by a dictatorship to boost the sport. It's sad some fans fall for it.

 

[QnebO]

There's plenty of reasons to care, like there were reasons to boycott the 1936 Olympics or the World Cup in Argentina in 1978. We don't need fake crowds ushered in by a dictatorship to boost the sport. It's sad some fans fall for it.

We are IIHF and the hockey fans, not world police. We cannot affect inside politics of any country. If there is something good about soviet style governments, lets enjoy it, like sponsored tickets and good atmosphere. We must keep in mind they are not fake crowds. They are people who are watching free hockey on their free will. There is no reason to think they were forced to make that atmosphere with a gun pointed at them, its just stupid, unless there is some evidence.

We are spreading happiness and good sides that hockey brings for Belarussians, that otherwise miserably live under the dictatorships, we assume.

 

[xxxx]

There's plenty of reasons to care, like there were reasons to boycott the 1936 Olympics or the World Cup in Argentina in 1978. We don't need fake crowds ushered in by a dictatorship to boost the sport. It's sad some fans fall for it.

Just because some tickets (maybe) were for free, it doesn't make the crowd a fake.

 

[Cruor]

Just because some tickets (maybe) were for free, it doesn't make the crowd a fake.

Fake as in artificially boosted numbers? Absolutely it does. And in the context of discussing some type of record here it does matter. The vast majority? Probably not. The arenas have had an influx of some 3000 people in the first power break thus far.

 

[QnebO]

Fake as in artificially boosted numbers? Absolutely it does. And in the context of discussing some type of record here it does matter. The vast majority? Probably not. The arenas have had an influx of some 3000 people in the first power break.

If numbers say "tickets sold" its fake, if they say "spectators amount: " they're not fake.

There is not even evidence that any tickets are given free in first place. Games have usually been full from the puck drop.

Who says tickets have to be sold to make the record? And why shouldn't tickets be given free? Remember youre hockey fans, not little Kalervo Kummola versions, I hope.

You can say "yeah they gave away free" and even if its true, what is the point? They gave it free, they got most spectators. Where is the conspiracy?

 

[Cruor]

Talk about moving the goal posts here Stockholm last year could have had full house if it used reasonable ticket prices, let alone let people watch for free. It didn't. You made a post bragging about how reasonable ticket prices boosts the interest; it does, to some degree. Then you have to factor in the seat fillers and that Belarus hosts the tourney for the first time ever.

And yes, there absolutely is evidence of it. Maybe you just chose to disregard it?

 

[QnebO]

Talk about moving the goal posts here Stockholm last year could have had full house if it used reasonable ticket prices, let alone let people watch for free. It didn't. You made a post bragging about how reasonable ticket prices boosts the interest; it does, to some degree. Then you have to factor in the seat fillers and that Belarus hosts the tourney for the first time ever.

And yes, there absolutely is evidence of it. Maybe you just chose to disregard it?

Yet no one will provide any of it in the era of internet. The proving duty is on the one who makes a claim..

And who is moving the goal posts? You're trying to say that crowd that is in the building is fake crowd and fake atmosphere, because they didin't pay money to get in.

 

[Cruor]

You already have one source on this very page, in Russian. Do you want me to post TV4 clips where they discuss the same thing in Swedish to oblige you?

 

[Namejs]

There is not even evidence that any tickets are given free in first place. Games have usually been full from the puck drop.

There's evidence everywhere. Everyone knows it. They even mentioned it in some of the broadcasts on Russian state TV.

It's just that there are some people here who for some reason have decided to reject the reality probably because of some personal agenda of theirs (political views, possibly?).

 

[QnebO]

There's evidence everywhere. Everyone knows it. They even mentioned it in some of the broadcasts on Russian state TV.

It's just that there are some people here who for some reason have decided to reject the reality probably because of some personal agenda of theirs (political views, possibly?).

Not political views.

Just sick and tired of some people trying to turn into negative that we have so great atmosphere in Belarus, probably that must be on some personal and political agenda actually. I don't really care if they are really giveaway tickets, because it doesnt take anything away from the records of attadance (thats not tickets sold) and the atmosphere itself, which is the most important. I haven't noticed, maybe its because I couldnt be less intrested did the crowds pay their tickets.

 

[LSnow]

Giving away tickets or selling them cheap to get full house is good, not like Sweden where there where no-one watching.

 

[Namejs]

And to those saying that it doesn't matter - IT DOES.

A part of the revenue from tickets goes to the IIHF. How ethical is it that an authoritarian regime finances IIHF, and who knows what sort of influence does it carry with it?

 

[QnebO]

And to those saying that it doesn't matter - IT DOES.

A part of the revenue from tickets goes to the IIHF. How ethical is it that an authoritarian regime finances IIHF, and who knows what sort of influence does it carry with it?

Fasel and Kummola wouldn't accept it that way, if the tickets are given away, some one is paying them for IIHF. They wouldnt just say "we dont care, lets do it all free this time". They must be sponsoring it if the tickets are given, thats pretty obvious. Also, do you acutally think that all tickets are given free?

Swedish WC for example wasnt even profitable according to Finnish news. How ethical is that for IIHF with your logic. Also how much it helps the credibility of this tournament to play for empty crowds? D

 

[Cruor]

Can you understand the difference between 1. A democratic country doing this and 2. An authoritarian regime doing this to boost the perception of the leadership?

No/Yes/Maybe?

 

[QnebO]

Can you understand the difference between 1. A democratic country doing this and 2. An authoritarian regime doing this to boost the perception of the leadership?

No/Yes/Maybe?

Yes.

How ever, this country would always do its business this way, because it's dictatorship. These hockey tournaments are not political, we can go to countries like Russia or Belarus to play hockey, I don't agree on sports boycotts. Well, at least without bigger reasons. I wouldn't have played on nazzi germany or current north korea, but quarantining countries like this from international sports event and tourism does not help, actually it does the opposite.

 

[Namejs]

Fasel and Kummola wouldn't accept it that way, if the tickets are given away, some one is paying them for IIHF. They wouldnt just say "we dont care, lets do it all free this time". They must be sponsoring it if the tickets are given, thats pretty obvious. Also, do you acutally think that all tickets are given free?

Swedish WC for example wasnt even profitable according to Finnish news. How ethical is that for IIHF with your logic. Also how much it helps the credibility of this tournament to play for empty crowds? D

Not all of them, but a lot of them.

The prices should be set according to market demand. It's as simple as that.

You can't hand out free tickets and have a profitable tournament at the same time either.

 

[xxxx]

If some tickets are free, what's wrong with it? As 'QnebO' said, it's a positive thing that they are able at least make the house full of people. Ten times better than what was seen in Finland and Sweden. Those tournaments was two of the worst I've ever seen in terms of hockey attendance.

 

[Jussi]

If some tickets are free, what's wrong with it? As 'QnebO' said, it's a positive thing that they are able at least make the house full of people. Ten times better than what was seen in Finland and Sweden. Those tournaments was two of the worst I've ever seen in terms of hockey attendance.

Well it comes down to whether one accepts the mere image of a "sold out" arena as a true sign of genuine atmosphere. I have doubts Belarus hockey fed will make an 8 million euro profit from this tournament like the Finnish one made in 2012. I also doubt they'll make as big a loss as the Swedish fed make last year. I think next year in Prague there will be "true fans" and the attendances will be great because the prices should be reasonable(unlike in 2012 and 2013) and the location is very tourist friendly.

There have indeed been reports of "fake fans" in the arenas and a friend of a friend came back earlier this week from Belarus and said he's never seen so many people wearing Team Finland jerseys unable to speak a word of Finnish.

 

[MMANumminen]

If the arenas are full because of Lukashenko, he should be given a medal