OT: New OT Bread

[Static]

I worry there's no amount of organizing that will actually fix things. just feels like this country is rotten to the core.

Honestly, the only way things have ever changed in the entire history of the world is through violence or economic pressure. The 1960s civil rights movement worked only after people protested so often that entire city economies effectively broke. How do we do that now? I don't know. But I know if we do nothing more and more rights will be taken.

 

[GreatBear]

Yes, but it's also important to understand why it's happening in those states. There is an endless cycle of poverty and lack of education that pushes people to radicalism and these decisions. For us who live in different environments and/or are lucky enough to have access to education and financial security we cannot simply turn away. These things are coming for us as well.

It is impossible to address the psychology and political structure of the anti-abortion states in a simple way on a message board. There is a significant intertwining of religious beliefs with the anti-abortion movement, which you would think violates the 1st Amendment. But the Supreme Court chooses to ignore religious issues when it desires to do so, while giving religion absolute protection in other cases.

The current decision is based upon a very narrow reading of only a part of history, and not even doing a complete job at that. Some of the current decision is based upon a 17th century judge who also created the spousal rape exception (a husband can never rape a wife), wanted to prosecute and convict witches, and favored capital punishment for children 14 or older.

Do not think for a second that this decision is limited just to abortion. Justice Thomas wrote a concurring opinion seeking to overturn the constitutional right to contraception, gay sex (well really any form of sodomy, which includes the common practice of oral sex between married couples), and or course, gay marriage. Can we trust the justices on these matters, particularly the three who stated in their confirmation hearings within the last five years that abortion rights were settled law and they respected the precedent of those rights. I think this decision and those statements during their confirmations brings the children's phrase "Liar, liar, pants on fire" to mind.

Interesting statistics on abortions from a NY Times article from December, 2021: Who Gets Abortions in America?

1. 60% of women getting an abortion already had at least one child.
2. 49% of women getting an abortion were married or cohabitating.
3. 32% of women getting an abortion voted for Trump in 2020.
4. 49% of women getting an abortion lived below the poverty line.

Abortions are not going away. There were many illegal abortions prior to the now-defunct Supreme Court decision legalizing abortions. However, some of these were botched and resulted in the death of the mother. Oh well, that, like school children mowed down by automatic rifles, is just the cost of living in the current United States.

Realistically, those women who are well enough off will simply travel to where abortions are legal. States may pass laws trying to prohibit that, but it is going to be very tough to prove with at home pregnancy kits. I suspect that the number of sterilizations of married people with children will increase somewhat, to avoid the oops baby. I also suspect that women will switch to long term birth control methods, that tend to be more effective at preventing pregnancy. Plus the male birth control pill is just starting to undergo testing, and perhaps that will be another method of preventing pregnancy in the future.

The key vulnerable group are the poor women, as evidenced by the 49% below the poverty line group. They don't have the money to travel, and even if some states such as California are willing to pay for travel for them, they may not have the means or knowledge to access those alternatives. This is also the group with the highest maternal death rates from birth, so we should expect an uptick in the mortality rates for mothers, particularly Black mothers, giving birth.

This is also the group where the children tend to be trapped in the poverty cycle, and thus the children will tend to grow up poor and live in poverty as adults. The more cynical of us might believe that this is considered a beneficial feature by some of the conservative anti-abortion activists, as it creates a perpetual servant class, something that in the South used to be provided by actual slaves. But as I started this post, that issue is far more complex than can be addressed on a message board.

 

[Exit Dose]

This is lowest I've felt since Charlottesville.

 

[Bender66]

Sharia law is okay i guess as long as it's your own religion and not some icky brown people's religion

 

[Smirnov2Chistov]

Yet another reason not to live in the South or the Midwest.

it’s a hell of a lot better than living in the Northeast

 

[GreatBear]

it’s a hell of a lot better than living in the Northeast

I would much rather live in the Northeast than the South or Midwest. I can put up with the cold and snow a lot better than I can the attitudes of a good portion of society in the South and Midwest. I guess I just have values that are way too liberal for those areas.

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

I would much rather live in the Northeast than the South or Midwest. I can put up with the cold and snow a lot better than I can the attitudes of a good portion of society in the South and Midwest. I guess I just have values that are way too liberal for those areas.

It's also cold as hell in most of the midwest during the winter. Source: me, praying that my car would start before a law school midterm on a -45F windchill morning. I've lived on both coasts and in the midwest and in terms of weather, the midwest sucks shit. The worst of everything.

But you see the same politics in a midwestern city that you would in any purple state. The urban/rural divide is stark. Just don't go live in Methshack, OK, and you'll be fine.

 

[Deuce22]

It's also cold as hell in most of the midwest during the winter. Source: me, praying that my car would start before a law school midterm on a -45F windchill morning. I've lived on both coasts and in the midwest and in terms of weather, the midwest sucks shit. The worst of everything.

But you see the same politics in a midwestern city that you would in any purple state. The urban/rural divide is stark. Just don't go live in Methshack, OK, and you'll be fine.

The idea that a state is uninhabitable because 55% of the population's politics is different than yours is crazy to me. You are right on about the urban/rural divide being more pronounced than red vs. blue states.

 

[Static]

The idea that a state is uninhabitable because 55% of the population's politics is different than yours is crazy to me. You are right on about the urban/rural divide being more pronounced than red vs. blue states.

If you live in said state and are anything other than a straight white male those are considerations you have to make.

 

[Deuce22]

If you live in said state and are anything other than a straight white male those are considerations you have to make.

Of course. There are considerations to all of our decisions in life. Living in a state in which the majority doesn't align with your political views isn't optimal, I guess. In this country you can protest, try to change the politicians in your state, move to a different state, or move to a country that provides more equality.

 

[GreatBear]

Of course. There are considerations to all of our decisions in life. Living in a state in which the majority doesn't align with your political views isn't optimal, I guess. In this country you can protest, try to change the politicians in your state, move to a different state, or move to a country that provides more equality.

It is more than just the balance of political parties. There are a lot of life choices that go with certain politics, and they are alien to me. I used to play a mental game when I was in the South of how many blocks could I go without seeing a Baptist church. I was in Knoxville one time and the discussion amongst the people I was visiting was what church you went to, and how that affected your social standing in town. In Birmingham I flatly refused to go to a dining area in a private club that was restricted to men only, no women. I was shocked that such a place even existed in this day and age. I could go on and on with far more examples of why I don't fit in the South. Although I will say that I am sad that I never stopped at the gun range in Panama City, Florida before it blew away in a hurricane. I always wanted to try their machine gun rentals but never got around to it.

And that is before we get to the heat and humidity down South in the summer, and the freezing storms I went through in the winter. When it is 15 degrees with a 30 mph wind in Little Rock the term Sunny South does not apply, it is just really really cold. Perhaps not as cold as when I landed in northern Wisconsin one winter's night, and the pilot informed us that it was minus 26 outside, but still mighty cold. And speaking of the upper Midwest, my favorite quote is from a friend of mine who said that he moved to California when he realized that it was 80 degrees warmer in his refrigerator than it was outside.

 

[Deuce22]

It is more than just the balance of political parties. There are a lot of life choices that go with certain politics, and they are alien to me. I used to play a mental game when I was in the South of how many blocks could I go without seeing a Baptist church. I was in Knoxville one time and the discussion amongst the people I was visiting was what church you went to, and how that affected your social standing in town. In Birmingham I flatly refused to go to a dining area in a private club that was restricted to men only, no women. I was shocked that such a place even existed in this day and age. I could go on and on with far more examples of why I don't fit in the South. Although I will say that I am sad that I never stopped at the gun range in Panama City, Florida before it blew away in a hurricane. I always wanted to try their machine gun rentals but never got around to it.

And that is before we get to the heat and humidity down South in the summer, and the freezing storms I went through in the winter. When it is 15 degrees with a 30 mph wind in Little Rock the term Sunny South does not apply, it is just really really cold. Perhaps not as cold as when I landed in northern Wisconsin one winter's night, and the pilot informed us that it was minus 26 outside, but still mighty cold. And speaking of the upper Midwest, my favorite quote is from a friend of mine who said that he moved to California when he realized that it was 80 degrees warmer in his refrigerator than it was outside.

Have never lived in the South, but have visited. It is a different place culturally, not to mention all the other differences. I have lived in Southern California all my life so am spoiled by the weather and the lifestyle choices. The tension between having 50 different locales trying to function as one is fascinating, as well as frustrating.

 

[Sojourn]

I wish it were just 50 different locales. The unfortunate part is some places are living in different times. Some states live in 2022, and some live in 1861.

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

Textualism is I think the dumbest possible way to interpret laws, but 6 members of the Supreme Court are enraptured with it to some extent. It's like statutes for dummies.

 

[Exit Dose]

 

[Kalv]

I like Metallica anyway, and listen to them often but after the Stranger Things 4 finale, Master of Puppets hits different

 

[Bender66]

Textualism is I think the dumbest possible way to interpret laws, but 6 members of the Supreme Court are enraptured with it to some extent. It's like statutes for dummies.

I mean, it's hard to have a high bar when one of the most recent nominees spent half his confirmation hearing talking about how he enjoys beer. Not exactly what I would call enlightened minds ...

 

[Deuce22]

I mean, it's hard to have a high bar when one of the most recent nominees spent half his confirmation hearing talking about how he enjoys beer. Not exactly what I would call enlightened minds ...

Political appointees, not the most qualified.

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

I mean, it's hard to have a high bar when one of the most recent nominees spent half his confirmation hearing talking about how he enjoys beer. Not exactly what I would call enlightened minds ...

To be sort of fair, he answered the questions he was asked, it's just that he answered them like a weird entitled jackass. And wouldn't you know, his writing is mediocre and his jurisprudence poorly researched and externally inconsistent. Great! Maybe we should set a higher bar for the 9 people who are among history's most powerful human beings.

 

[Static]

To be sort of fair, he answered the questions he was asked, it's just that he answered them like a weird entitled jackass. And wouldn't you know, his writing is mediocre and his jurisprudence poorly researched and externally inconsistent. Great! Maybe we should set a higher bar for the 9 people who are among history's most powerful human beings.

Is the road to that bench largely political? I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around a supreme court justice being incompetent.

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

Is the road to that bench largely political? I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around a supreme court justice being incompetent.

I don't know if it's political, but getting a nomination is definitely a who-you-know-not-what-you-know proposition. And I wouldn't call Kavanaugh incompetent but he's just nothing special and to my eyes he's laboring to cover up a pretty obvious bias. Like, Thomas is a kook and Alito is a malevolent asshole but they're intelligent men. Kavanaugh is dad boner in a robe. A silver-spoon asshole derping his way through a blessed life all the while congratulating himself for his hard work.

 

[dracom]

To be sort of fair, he answered the questions he was asked, it's just that he answered them like a weird entitled jackass. And wouldn't you know, his writing is mediocre and his jurisprudence poorly researched and externally inconsistent. Great! Maybe we should set a higher bar for the 9 people who are among history's most powerful human beings.

or maybe at the very least let those people be elected by the people and not chosen by presidents who don't get the popular vote.

 

[Static]

or maybe at the very least let those people be elected by the people and not chosen by presidents who don't get the popular vote.

The problem is the general public would have less of an idea of the qualifications needed for that type of position. I certainly wouldn't want a lot of my neighbors voting for such a thing. Nowadays it doesn't seem to matter, my dog could put better equipped people up there.

 

[dracom]

The problem is the general public would have less of an idea of the qualifications needed for that type of position. I certainly wouldn't want a lot of my neighbors voting for such a thing. Nowadays it doesn't seem to matter, my dog could put better equipped people up there.

like you said, at this point it really doesn't matter. i just hate the notion that 9 people that no one voted for has such control over the entire country; and these people are appointed for life.

 

[ohcomeonref]

I like Metallica anyway, and listen to them often but after the Stranger Things 4 finale, Master of Puppets hits different

Gahhhhhh spoiler alert dude.