NEW: Massive Mailbag! Sharks' Trade Deadline Talk, Celebrini's Next Contract, Deal Eklund?

[Original22]

Sheng and Keegan reminding me why I listen to podcasts at 1.5x speed

 

[Sharksfan66]

Love the 4 hour episode. That was a lot to crank out!

Maybe the most interesting thing to me was the Pettersson trade idea. I think they might have said it, but this has the potential to be the Jumbo trade all over again. And I think it would take a lot of pressure off Smith to not have to be the 2nd beset forward on this team longterm.

Eklund + Granny seems a little light, even with all the drama, but what do you all think of Eklund + Granny + Ferraro? Who says no?

 

[coooldude]

Love the 4 hour episode. That was a lot to crank out!

Maybe the most interesting thing to me was the Pettersson trade idea. I think they might have said it, but this has the potential to be the Jumbo trade all over again. And I think it would take a lot of pressure off Smith to not have to be the 2nd beset forward on this team longterm.

Eklund + Granny seems a little light, even with all the drama, but what do you all think of Eklund + Granny + Ferraro? Who says no?

I think Vancouver says no. Petey would get more of a haul. I'm also not sure I want Petey to be the next core guy we try to establish. He's got all the skill, but Grier says he wants high skilled compete, pains in the ass to play against, and Petey strikes me as a little bit of a lightweight in that regard.

 

[gaucholoco3]

I think Vancouver says no. Petey would get more of a haul. I'm also not sure I want Petey to be the next core guy we try to establish. He's got all the skill, but Grier says he wants high skilled compete, pains in the ass to play against, and Petey strikes me as a little bit of a lightweight in that regard.

You sound like JT Miller.

I think Pettersson makes sense if the Sharks wanted to speed up the rebuild which would lead me to want to use Smith instead of Eklund. While Celebrini and Askarov would be strong reasons to speed up the rebuild it won’t be successful unless the D can have a major overhaul as well.

I think an offseason trade could be more realistic but only if it comes with multiple legit top 4 D joining the organization.

 

[Sharksfan66]

I think Vancouver says no. Petey would get more of a haul. I'm also not sure I want Petey to be the next core guy we try to establish. He's got all the skill, but Grier says he wants high skilled compete, pains in the ass to play against, and Petey strikes me as a little bit of a lightweight in that regard.

What kind of haul do you think he'll get? A trade seems inevitable at this point, and seeing the Rangers offered Zibanejad for Miller straight up, it seems like teams know they have them over a barrel.

In terms of fit, I wonder the same thing to a degree but I also think the difference in play style between him and Celebrini would give teams fits trying to plan to shut the Sharks down in the playoffs. But I guess that gets back to the issues with him and Miller. Are they too different to play nice together? It really is an odd situation to me. So I guess all that said, you may be right and that's why I wouldn't mind missing out. But I would sure how Grier is at least doing the due diligence to poke around and find out what's going on up there.

 

[Sharksfan66]

You sound like JT Miller.

I think Pettersson makes sense if the Sharks wanted to speed up the rebuild which would lead me to want to use Smith instead of Eklund. While Celebrini and Askarov would be strong reasons to speed up the rebuild it won’t be successful unless the D can have a major overhaul as well.

I think an offseason trade could be more realistic but only if it comes with multiple legit top 4 D joining the organization.

I thought about Smith but I figured Eklund would actually have more value to a team like the Canucks than a guy like Smith. Maybe I'm too down on his slow start, but it seems like we're still a ways away from him becoming an impact player at this level, meanwhile the Canucks should be competing for a cup this year.

 

[gaucholoco3]

I thought about Smith but I figured Eklund would actually have more value to a team like the Canucks than a guy like Smith. Maybe I'm too down on his slow start, but it seems like we're still a ways away from him becoming an impact player at this level, meanwhile the Canucks should be competing for a cup this year.

This is an issue for the Sharks to acquire these potential young long term fits is because the teams that have these players want to compete now so they want players that can help immediately but not rentals.

That’s why these trades are a lot easier for the Sharks to make in the offseason.

 

[karltonian]

Nevermind

 

[Star Platinum]

@Sheng Peng doesn't love the trade, @Kcoyote3 thinks it's smart GM'ing. Still working my way through it.

 

[tiburon12]

@Sheng Peng doesn't love the trade, @Kcoyote3 thinks it's smart GM'ing. Still working my way through it.

Ultimately the arguing was them trying to find common ground between an qualitative vs quantitative approach to the trade, for which there cant be any.

I also don't buy that Grandlund wanted to stay. Maybe he didn't ask to leave, but that doesn't mean he wanted to stay.

 

[Star Platinum]

Ultimately the arguing was them trying to find common ground between an qualitative vs quantitative approach to the trade, for which there cant be any.

I also don't buy that Grandlund wanted to stay. Maybe he didn't ask to leave, but that doesn't mean he wanted to stay.

Yeah, that was the giant weakness in @Sheng Peng's position. You know what you do when you want to stay? You sign an extension like Blackwood did after he arrived in Colorado.

Now, you might be willing to stay for the right price, but when you wait until free agency to determine what your next contract will be, you're inherently saying that you want to see what is the highest price the market will offer you for your services and which teams are actively interested in you so you can pick the combination of team plus contract that is most appealing to you. And a team in the Sharks' position, with one of the worst records in the league and likely a lottery team for the next two seasons at minimum while their prospect pool matures can't function on hopium that just because you're a good guy with a good work ethic and a good locker room guy that you're gonna want to come back to a losing situation. If you actually are willing to do a short contract for a workable number that the Sharks are willing to pay, you had every opportunity to talk to the team and try to work out that deal. I'm sure the Sharks have had preliminary discussions of that nature with every single UFA that they would be willing to have come back next year.

What @Sheng Peng thinks he knows about Granlund's willingness to come back really doesn't matter. The Sharks can't afford to take those kinds of chances when pretty much any player with options is gonna pick a better winning situation if the money is comparable. At least with the picks in hand, you have some capital you can use to trade for guys who have to show up if you can't convince any free agents to come.

 

[tiburon12]

Yeah, that was the giant weakness in @Sheng Peng's position. You know what you do when you want to stay? You sign an extension like Blackwood did after he arrived in Colorado.

Now, you might be willing to stay for the right price, but when you wait until free agency to determine what your next contract will be, you're inherently saying that you want to see what is the highest price the market will offer you for your services and which teams are actively interested in you so you can pick the combination of team plus contract that is most appealing to you. And a team in the Sharks' position, with one of the worst records in the league and likely a lottery team for the next two seasons at minimum while their prospect pool matures can't function on hopium that just because you're a good guy with a good work ethic and a good locker room guy that you're gonna want to come back to a losing situation. If you actually are willing to do a short contract for a workable number that the Sharks are willing to pay, you had every opportunity to talk to the team and try to work out that deal. I'm sure the Sharks have had preliminary discussions of that nature with every single UFA that they would be willing to have come back next year.

What @Sheng Peng thinks he knows about Granlund's willingness to come back really doesn't matter. The Sharks can't afford to take those kinds of chances when pretty much any player with options is gonna pick a better winning situation if the money is comparable. At least with the picks in hand, you have some capital you can use to trade for guys who have to show up if you can't convince any free agents to come.

I do get his point that the risks from losing both veteran presences could cause serious harm to development or locker room chemistry, but I also don't think that outweighs making a shrewd business play. Good GMing is a balance of both, and so far we haven't seen anything from Grier that makes me worry about his ability to balance that.

All that said, I do feel like even Sheng was wishy-washy about his take. He usually is quite confident in his delivery and assertion of facts, and seemed to speak with some trepidation when laying out his argument. In contrast, he sharply countered some of Keegan's claims with said confidence. (caveat - i listen at 1.5x speed so i could be missing this entirely)

Maybe he was struggling with the heart vs head of this trade

 

[coooldude]

I don't think it was Granlund waiting to start extension talks, it seems pretty clearly like it was Grier. So putting any of this on Granlund feels unfair to him.

I heard and read Sheng as pretty definitive that he thinks the locker room mentorship is more valuable than an at-par-value trade for assets given where we are in the rebuild, and I think that argument is sound and has merit. I don't necessarily agree or disagree, I'm still on the fence until I see what we do with that 1st. But it's pretty clearly a market value trade, rather than an overpayment by DAL, and given the impact on the young kids and the lineup in the last 28 games / next 2 years Sheng believes we shouldn't have settled for anything but an overpayment. Fair take.

It's going to be a long 28 games. I don't think it's likely but I hope we break 60 points. EDIT: 24 points in 28 games for a 0.429 points % in that time. Highly unrealistic.

Revised prediction assuming a roughly 0.350 points% to the end of the season: 56 points. 9 points / 4.5 wins better than 2024.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I don’t put the lack of extension talks on either side. The Sharks have limited opportunities to snag 1st round pick level assets off other teams and need to leverage those chances when it makes sense. Granlund should be looking for, and likely will get, an opportunity elsewhere to get paid well on his last major contract and compete. Both sides benefit from moving on even with Granlund being a tremendous acquisition.

As for Ceci, it sounds like his departure opens a spot for Thrun to see if he can handle the top pairing. He probably won’t but between him and at least one of Mukhamadullin or Thompson getting experience on the 3rd pairing is good for moving the rebuild forward.

 

[Hodge]

Ultimately we won't know whether keeping Granlund on the 9Mx3 extension Sheng hints at would have been preferable to the 1st and 9Mx3 in cap space until we see how the Sharks use those assets.

 

[gaucholoco3]

While it is hard to quantify the value Granlund provides as a mentor there is a clear value to the 1st round pick. Maybe Grier wanted to be in on Jiricek but didn’t have the right combination of picks. Now he has the ability to pounce on a trade for a young player (Nemec). It’s not hard to envision a deal similar to the Jireck deal.

Dallas 1st + Avs 2nd (2026) + Dallas conditional 3rd/4th + 4th + Thompson.

NJ really can’t take on much salary but has limited depth but Rutta, Sturm, or Kunin could also be included. I don’t know who they would want to include as a cap dump but the Sharks can take on a player if it helps make the deal work.

 

[The411]

Sheng is completely wrong about this trade. The Sharks have the worst record in the league despite Granlund having a strong year. Signing him to a ridiculous 3x9 wasn’t going to help the Sharks move forward.

Not to mention that Granlund is due for decline in his game given that contract would be from ages 33-35.

The team needs as many assets as they can get to draft and trade to build the core.

 

[Star Platinum]

I don't think it was Granlund waiting to start extension talks, it seems pretty clearly like it was Grier. So putting any of this on Granlund feels unfair to him.

I heard and read Sheng as pretty definitive that he thinks the locker room mentorship is more valuable than an at-par-value trade for assets given where we are in the rebuild, and I think that argument is sound and has merit. I don't necessarily agree or disagree, I'm still on the fence until I see what we do with that 1st. But it's pretty clearly a market value trade, rather than an overpayment by DAL, and given the impact on the young kids and the lineup in the last 28 games / next 2 years Sheng believes we shouldn't have settled for anything but an overpayment. Fair take.

It's going to be a long 28 games. I don't think it's likely but I hope we break 60 points. EDIT: 24 points in 28 games for a 0.429 points % in that time. Highly unrealistic.

Revised prediction assuming a roughly 0.350 points% to the end of the season: 56 points. 9 points / 4.5 wins better than 2024.

I'm sure that Grier and Granlund's agent had preliminary talks about whether Granlund had interest in coming back. To think that there's been zero discussion is silly. But discussion and actually putting pen to paper is different. Whether it's money or term or perhaps non-interest in having him return by either party, nothing ended up happening. Sharks took the sure thing in lieu of getting an extension done. There's really nothing more to discuss.

I don’t put the lack of extension talks on either side. The Sharks have limited opportunities to snag 1st round pick level assets off other teams and need to leverage those chances when it makes sense. Granlund should be looking for, and likely will get, an opportunity elsewhere to get paid well on his last major contract and compete. Both sides benefit from moving on even with Granlund being a tremendous acquisition.

As for Ceci, it sounds like his departure opens a spot for Thrun to see if he can handle the top pairing. He probably won’t but between him and at least one of Mukhamadullin or Thompson getting experience on the 3rd pairing is good for moving the rebuild forward.

I don't know whether they're gonna play someone on their off side or move Liljegren up to play with Walman, but whatever it is, it's not going to be pretty.

 

[Star Platinum]

Ultimately we won't know whether keeping Granlund on the 9Mx3 extension Sheng hints at would have been preferable to the 1st and 9Mx3 in cap space until we see how the Sharks use those assets.

$9Mx3 for a guy who's playing on Dallas' third line is way too much IMO. I don't think Granlund is going to get anything near that on the open market. His value was largely due to the fact that there weren't a lot of great trade options out there for centers in this year's market.