Player Discussion Neal Pionk

[Vinny DeAngelo]

He reminds me of Pre-2012 Stralman.. Not flashy and struggling defensively.

He has taking over the PP unit from Shattenkirk, because shatty can't skate anymore. Its horrible, he doesn't believe in his legs after the injury.

Do I think he'll be the future PPQB? No. He like mcdonagh will have his limitations on the PP

Overall, hes been solid. I wish he was better in his own zone. Skjei-Pionk could become a very solid 2nd pair

 

[Mac n Gs]

Guys I like Pionk too, but let’s not get carried away with those two primary assists yesterday.

I will give him some slack because Staal sucked ass through a straw last night, especially after Pionk’s nice intercept in the d-zone. That play led to Staal’s bad pinch and the flurry of shots against off an odd-man rush. Then there was the pass that went right through Staal’s legs leading to another odd-man rush and flurry of shots.

 

[lilphildub]

Any RHD playing the point on the top Ranger PP is going to get a lot of primary assists by simply passing the puck to Zibanejad for one-timers. Wouldn't really consider racking up primary assists there a skill thing. If you put McQuaid there I'd bet he gets a ton of power play assists as well. The same thing happened to John Carlson when he took over for Mike Green.

That said Shattenkirk has consistently been one of the absolute elite PP dmen in the league and he really should be on the top unit.

If Deangelo made the same hesitation move and pass on Zibby's PP goal, people would be praising him non stop this morning. But because its Pionk, "anyone could do it". This board is funny

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Guys I like Pionk too, but let’s not get carried away with those two primary assists yesterday.

I will give him some slack because Staal sucked ass through a straw last night, especially after Pionk’s nice intercept in the d-zone. That play led to Staal’s bad pinch and the flurry of shots against off an odd-man rush. Then there was the pass that went right through Staal’s legs leading to another odd-man rush and flurry of shots.

That was embarrassing Hahahahaha

 

[silverfish]

If Deangelo made the same hesitation move and pass on Zibby's PP goal, people would be praising him non stop this morning. But because its Pionk, "anyone could do it". This board is funny

Chiming in just to say how funny it is how two people can look at the same exact inputs and have totally different outputs. Because to me, Pionk is the guy that gets praised endlessly and ADA is the guy who gets endlessly shit on.

But. Two different strokes for two different folks. Humans are funny.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

His underlying numbers are extremely worrying to me, the good thing is that he has the Tools to be good, just need coaches to realize he's not good and work on those bad habits and issues. Right now he can't defend the blueline to save his life and his most used "zone exit" is to chip it up the boards to an opponent.

 

[JayMan82]

His underlying numbers are extremely worrying to me, the good thing is that he has the Tools to be good, just need coaches to realize he's not good and work on those bad habits and issues. Right now he can't defend the blueline to save his life and his most used "zone exit" is to chip it up the boards to an opponent.

Girardi made a 10+ year career of this, so Pionk should be fine .

Seriously though, he has produced since day 1 and although he isn't a analytics darling, it's sometimes not all about that. If he can continue to develop other parts of his game while continuing to chip in, he is a great asset (that we essentially attained for free). The things he needs to work on is teachable in my opinion. Defensemen ALWAYS take longer to develop, and we have the staff that makes me confident we will develop him into a reliable 2-way top 4 dman.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Has Pionk even set Zib up for a one-timer? Most of the time Zib has settled the puck down and fired a wrist shot short side.

 

[lilphildub]

Chiming in just to say how funny it is how two people can look at the same exact inputs and have totally different outputs. Because to me, Pionk is the guy that gets praised endlessly and ADA is the guy who gets endlessly **** on.

But. Two different strokes for two different folks. Humans are funny.

Maybe last year but this year, I don't see much hate for ADA. Maybe I have a decent amount of people on ignore? The only mentions of ADA I see are how mad everyone is that he's been scratched, he's played good/decent when he'd actually play and how him and Quinn are not getting along. Don't see hate but that could be me skipping certain "known" posters

Pionk on the other hand has been rightfully criticized for bleeding shots but praised for putting up points. I don't see it being one sided by any means. Again it could be that I have a lot of people on ignore or am skipping certain people's posts.

It just drives me crazy when I see posts saying "you could put anyone in his position and put up points". Some people refuse to give players praise

 

[QJL]

I’m concerned as well, but advanced metrics don’t show up on th scoreboard. Pionk has played at the pace of a 47 point defenseman to start his career. While puck possession has been an issue, he hasn’t been on the ice for more actual goals against in comparison to his peers. I don’t mind him flailing around in the defensive zone 60% of the time as long as the puck stays out of our net and goes in the other net. So far, that trend has continued. Until the poor underlying numbers result in actual game impact on the scoreboard, I’ll ride the Pionk wave.

 

[EdJovanovski]

I’d love to sell high on this useless bozo
Worst player on our team AINEC

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Any RHD playing the point on the top Ranger PP is going to get a lot of primary assists by simply passing the puck to Zibanejad for one-timers. Wouldn't really consider racking up primary assists there a skill thing. If you put McQuaid there I'd bet he gets a ton of power play assists as well. The same thing happened to John Carlson when he took over for Mike Green.

That said Shattenkirk has consistently been one of the absolute elite PP dmen in the league and he really should be on the top unit.

Yeah man, I'm sure AM54 could've led that rush and danced Barkov at the line.

 

[Levitate]

If Deangelo made the same hesitation move and pass on Zibby's PP goal, people would be praising him non stop this morning. But because its Pionk, "anyone could do it". This board is funny

That was indeed a nice little move by Pionk.

I just wish he could suppress shots worth a damn. Its not crazy to be concerned at the fact there's a large disparity in shots taken versus shots given up with him on the ice.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

25 minutes he's playing? I missed yesterdays game but that seems super high for a rookie player, but if he is handling it without "too" many problems then it's quite impressive.

 

[ThirdEye]

We don't have anyone better right now, so you guys that don't like him will have to just suck it up and "live" with him.

How many 23 year old d-men who've played half a seasons worth of games are sound in every respect? Especially on a bad team.

Can we please give him some type of blossom? He didn't cost us anything, so if he never fully adapts then we've lost nothing. Meanwhile if we get rid of him and he picks it up somewhere else we'll be smacking ourselves on the head once again.

 

[Levitate]

25 minutes he's playing? I missed yesterdays game but that seems super high for a rookie player, but if he is handling it without "too" many problems then it's quite impressive.

He doesn't make a ton of glaring mistakes but he is obviously having problems preventing shots against at least.

We don't have anyone better right now, so you guys that don't like him will have to just suck it up and "live" with him.

How many 23 year old d-men who've played half a seasons worth of games are sound in every respect? Especially on a bad team.

Can we please give him some type of blossom? He didn't cost us anything, so if he never fully adapts then we've lost nothing. Meanwhile if we get rid of him and he picks it up somewhere else we'll be smacking ourselves on the head once again.

I certainly hopes he improves defensively and grows as a player. I'm not ready to just give up on him as some are...guy has barely played half a NHL season and as you say is still very young for a defenseman. I think there are two issues though...

One is that management and the coaching staff don't seem to be concerned with him bleeding shots like crazy and overall not actually being good defensively. They seem to see him as a complete all around player that they're willing to run out there again and again despite his shortcomings that need to be addressed. It's a real concern that his problems never will be worked on and fixed if the coaches aren't being honest about his on ice abilities. That's not good for him or the team.

Two is that another young quality player in DeAngelo seems to be getting the reverse treatment for no discernible reason. I don't want to make it a DeAngelo versus Pionk thing, I'd be happy if both of them could develop into good players for the Rangers, but one guy bleeds shots like a stuck pig but is considered a promising all around defenseman and the other does nothing but put up quality shot stats and generate scoring chances but is considered a risky offensive defenseman who can't defend and is benched for any small mistakes.

It highlights what could be a real issue with how this teams management and coaching staff evaluates players. If you want to just shrug that away, I would make the argument that it's exactly this kind of evaluation and thinking that leads to teams giving guys like Girardi and Staal long term contracts and playing them in important minutes at all times even though they suck statistically.

 

[Ola]

He reminds me of Pre-2012 Stralman.. Not flashy and struggling defensively.

He has taking over the PP unit from Shattenkirk, because shatty can't skate anymore. Its horrible, he doesn't believe in his legs after the injury.

Do I think he'll be the future PPQB? No. He like mcdonagh will have his limitations on the PP

Overall, hes been solid. I wish he was better in his own zone. Skjei-Pionk could become a very solid 2nd pair

Shatty skated exactly like this in STL too. And Washington.

 

[Levitate]

Shatty skated exactly like this in STL too. And Washington.

eh, I dunno, he does seem to be lacking in some confidence. He's never been a great skater exactly but he also was never particularly hesitant about it either. Right now he looks like he's holding back and unsure

 

[Ola]

He doesn't make a ton of glaring mistakes but he is obviously having problems preventing shots against at least.

I certainly hopes he improves defensively and grows as a player. I'm not ready to just give up on him as some are...guy has barely played half a NHL season and as you say is still very young for a defenseman. I think there are two issues though...

One is that management and the coaching staff don't seem to be concerned with him bleeding shots like crazy and overall not actually being good defensively. They seem to see him as a complete all around player that they're willing to run out there again and again despite his shortcomings that need to be addressed. It's a real concern that his problems never will be worked on and fixed if the coaches aren't being honest about his on ice abilities. That's not good for him or the team.

Two is that another young quality player in DeAngelo seems to be getting the reverse treatment for no discernible reason. I don't want to make it a DeAngelo versus Pionk thing, I'd be happy if both of them could develop into good players for the Rangers, but one guy bleeds shots like a stuck pig but is considered a promising all around defenseman and the other does nothing but put up quality shot stats and generate scoring chances but is considered a risky offensive defenseman who can't defend and is benched for any small mistakes.

It highlights what could be a real issue with how this teams management and coaching staff evaluates players. If you want to just shrug that away, I would make the argument that it's exactly this kind of evaluation and thinking that leads to teams giving guys like Girardi and Staal long term contracts and playing them in important minutes at all times even though they suck statistically.

Take my word for it, we are reading way too much into the magnitude of the numbers.

Dan Girardis CF% in Tampa is 55.9% CF rel is +4.2.

Have he learnt to prevent shots all of a sudden?

Facts: Pionk is playing the hardest minutes on the team right now. We are rebuilding. When Pionk is changing partner, the tough minutes are coming with him.

Certain posters are only looking to confirm their view meaning that they want to be able to say look I was right and the numbers didn’t need to be interpreted at all, they always beat the eye-test period. Nobody is mentioning any of the very obvious factors having an impact on the numbers.

The numbers indicate that Pionk is extremely worthless defensively. AV used Pionk for the toughest defensive minutes and so does Quinn. There is a reason for that. With that said — I certainly believe that there is a reason for coaching crew to work hard with Pionk, like with all kids. It’s part of the process.

 

[SA16]

If Deangelo made the same hesitation move and pass on Zibby's PP goal, people would be praising him non stop this morning. But because its Pionk, "anyone could do it". This board is funny

Green did it for Ovy.
Then Niskanen did it for Ovy.
Then Carlson did it for Ovy.

The actual player in that spot for him has been entirely replaceable.

Zibanejad obviously isn't as good but he plays the same role, is good at is anyway, and they seem to be trying to model their PP the same.

Has Pionk even set Zib up for a one-timer? Most of the time Zib has settled the puck down and fired a wrist shot short side.

Same concept. Setting him up for a shot in the left circle.

 

[Levitate]

Facts: Pionk is playing the hardest minutes on the team right now. We are rebuilding. When Pionk is changing partner, the tough minutes are coming with him.

Certain posters are only looking to confirm their view meaning that they want to be able to say look I was right and the numbers didn’t need to be interpreted at all, they always beat the eye-test period. Nobody is mentioning any of the very obvious factors having an impact on the numbers.

Nah I'm pretty sure people take those things into account. Hell, advanced stats can take that into account by adjusting for quality of competition and quality of linemates and giving you information on based on those things. You claim it's people looking to confirm their viewing and it always beats the eye-test, but I feel like we get plenty of people saying their eye test is 100% accurate and any numbers to the contrary are BS.

Putting up poor numbers while playing hard minutes just means that you're not good enough to play hard minutes in an effective way. The top D's in the league can play hard minutes and put up good numbers, it's not some inevitability that if you go up against the other teams top players then you're always going to have poor numbers. Some guys can do it, most guys can't. Pionk is a guy who so far has shown that he can't. That by itself doesn't mean he sucks, just that he shouldn't be looked at as a top pair guy who can handle those minutes.

Mayyybe the coaches are hoping that by throwing him into the fire he'll progress better but I have my doubts.[/quote][/QUOTE]

 

[lilphildub]

Green did it for Ovy.
Then Niskanen did it for Ovy.
Then Carlson did it for Ovy.

The actual player in that spot for him has been entirely replaceable.

Zibanejad obviously isn't as good but he plays the same role, is good at is anyway, and they seem to be trying to model their PP the same.

Pionk has 5 PP assists. Only 2 on Zibby goals. And I'd argue Pionk did a good job setting him up on the one last night

Shattenkirk has 1 PP assist on the year and that was on a Kreider goal.

But lets not give Pionk any credit

Not saying its all Pionk. But discrediting him and saying "you can put anyone there" is not right

 

[bl02]

Wouldn't be surprising if by seasons end he has 10 plus more points than our next defenseman yet he will be called a horrible player. In his what his first full year?

 

[Rempe73]

At least I was alive to see the first two play on the power play together. That may be the best pair of defensemen on the PP that I have ever seen. If I was handpicking a pair from all the rosters in the NHL, it would be difficult to beat those 2.

Who?

 

[Rempe73]

We don't have anyone better right now, so you guys that don't like him will have to just suck it up and "live" with him.

How many 23 year old d-men who've played half a seasons worth of games are sound in every respect? Especially on a bad team.

Can we please give him some type of blossom? He didn't cost us anything, so if he never fully adapts then we've lost nothing. Meanwhile if we get rid of him and he picks it up somewhere else we'll be smacking ourselves on the head once again.

This is something that needs to be said again and again, because people don’t get it. Someone that no one drafted is an NHL player. A good one. And we got him. How good can he be? I don’t know, but that one shift last night gave me the chills. Wow. I want him and ADA playing on our first PP unit for years.