Player Discussion Neal Pionk

[Filthy Dangles]

I went back to watch some of the tape and this sequence caught my eye. Pionk's definitely had his individual struggles in the Dzone but it's hard to tell how much of his struggles and results are him indivually versus the system/scheme and team defense.

Firs thing you notice here is Skjei and Pionk are playing each other's side on this D zone start, which is a common setup. They want Skjei to pounce on face off win or loose puck so he can wheel the puck on his forehand and initiate the breakout to the weakside where there is obviously more room.

It's a scramble face off and somehow all 3 of Skjei Pionk and Howden wind up in the corner. No one covers the net front. Eller was originally Howden's guy, two centers. Usually you want the strong side D (Skjei) and the F1 (Howden) in the corner with D2 (Pionk) holding net front and covering Burakovsky.

After the puck switches sides you can see Eller gets an easy puck retrieval because all 3 of Skjei Pionk and howden were in the same corner and no one could attack the puck carrier quickly, things begin to break down at that point....

Skjei eventually retrieves the puck and it looks like Vesey had flown the zone instead of being an anchor option on the boards. hard to breakout when no one's open.

After Kempny rims the puck after Carlson's shot, Pionk, instead of attacking the puck carrier as the puck swtiches sides, he stays net front and has Skjei come over from the far side corner and go to the other corner. I don't get that either...he should have been the first defenseman to attack the puck carrier.

Then he battles on the boards and gets some support but doesn't really win any battle. Howden comes over in support and pokes it loose but it goes to the Caps player who gets a good chance.


Summary: The team defense and Defensive Zone coverage as a unit is pretty bad and frequently gets broken down and exploited. Pionk himself makes some questionable decisions on this sequence in the Dzone and in general.

 

[Rempe73]

IMHO this is backwards thinking,
stats, even ADVANCED stats, are just part of the whole picture, a reflection of some of the reality, but should never be an end unto themselves.
the widespread impulse to over-emphasize some stats is a trend that i hope will fade after a while, its a dis-service to the players and the game

i don't have a stats report in front of me,
but i bet if you reviewed any rankings,
there will be players of whom you would say he actually isn't as impactful as his numbers indicate,
and other guys who you'd say have more positive impact than the numbers would indicate

any stat is just one tool or metric among many

and besides Pionk is only 30 games into his career as an NHL D-man, his overall impact and contribution, by all measures, are likely to improve

I completely agree. First of all, what I meant to say was “I really wish he would improve some of his play, so that his advanced stats would improve and shut his critics up.” I’m more of an eye test person myself, but I admit advanced stats are definitely important. Of course they aren’t the end all be all, and of course Pionk is still a very inexperienced player, but there has to be something to that. Some guy mentioned that every defenseman has better stats without Pionk than with him. Maybe it’s because Pionk is a young defenseman who plays against the best players on the opposing team? Whatever the reason may be, I still really like him and hope he stays on the team for a long time.

 

[Rempe73]

Remember that he regularly gets the toughest minutes or among the toughest minutes. Many Ds on the verge to being NHLers would have a disasterous night if they played all night against AO.

He is his own biggest enemy to get love from the people that only look at stats. By being as good 1 on 1 as he is he gets a lot tougher assignments than many other Ds on the verge (like Gilmour and the likes).

But it’s not the whole story, I covered what he can do better above.

Many here would never even consider that AV, Quinn, Blashill or someone like that even knows 10% of what they do about hockey — but there is a reason for why these guys not only play Pionk but play him a ton.

With that said, Pionk got areas he can work on.

What’s AO? And thank you for answering my question. I assumed part of the reason was tough minutes against tough opponents. In any case, Pionk gets way too much hate for someone that has taken such big strides in his development.

 

[Ola]

I went back to watch some of the tape and this sequence caught my eye. Pionk's definitely had his individual struggles in the Dzone but it's hard to tell how much of his struggles and results are him indivually versus the system/scheme and team defense.

Firs thing you notice here is Skjei and Pionk are playing each other's side on this D zone start, which is a common setup. They want Skjei to pounce on face off win or loose puck so he can wheel the puck on his forehand and initiate the breakout to the weakside where there is obviously more room.

It's a scramble face off and somehow all 3 of Skjei Pionk and Howden wind up in the corner. No one covers the net front. Eller was originally Howden's guy, two centers. Usually you want the strong side D (Skjei) and the F1 (Howden) in the corner with D2 (Pionk) holding net front and covering Burakovsky.

After the puck switches sides you can see Eller gets an easy puck retrieval because all 3 of Skjei Pionk and howden were in the same corner and no one could attack the puck carrier quickly, things begin to break down at that point....

Skjei eventually retrieves the puck and it looks like Vesey had flown the zone instead of being an anchor option on the boards. hard to breakout when no one's open.

After Kempny rims the puck after Carlson's shot, Pionk, instead of attacking the puck carrier as the puck swtiches sides, he stays net front and has Skjei come over from the far side corner and go to the other corner. I don't get that either...he should have been the first defenseman to attack the puck carrier.

Then he battles on the boards and gets some support but doesn't really win any battle. Howden comes over in support and pokes it loose but it goes to the Caps player who gets a good chance.

Summary: The team defense and Defensive Zone coverage as a unit is pretty bad and frequently gets broken down and exploited. Pionk himself makes some questionable decisions on this sequence in the Dzone and in general.

My take on this sequence is that we as a group have good intentions and keep Washington on the outside. I don't really agree that we make any mistakes and I especially can't see Pionk making any. Our defense breaks down once, but that is the Howden poke at the lose puck that hits Pionk's skate and goes inside our pressure. Its what happens at times when you are pressured. I definitely can't see any coach having a problem with 3 defenders jumping on one forward in the corner, one guy takes the body, one guy takes the puck and the 3rd is back-up taking away the passing lane. At least as long as the guy in the corner isn't Gretzky.

Its a good shift by Washington and I don't think you would struggle to find Washington having shifts like this on a nightly basis.

What does stand out is that we pressure fairly hard and we are more aggressive in pursuing the puck than say 2/3 of the teams in this league would be.

For someone 6'0 190 lbs I think Pionk's play in his own end is good in general, I really do. That is also why he get the usage that he does. I don't think we can ask much more from him when he is spending time in his own end. They key for him is to spend less time in his own end.

 

[GAGLine]

After Kempny rims the puck after Carlson's shot, Pionk, instead of attacking the puck carrier as the puck swtiches sides, he stays net front and has Skjei come over from the far side corner and go to the other corner. I don't get that either...he should have been the first defenseman to attack the puck carrier.

It looked fine to me. If Connolly had gotten the puck behind the net, it would have been a different story, but the puck went through him to the other side. Skjei was better positioned to go after it and that is Skjei's side of the ice. If Pionk chases the puck there, then both he and Skjei would have been in the corner without anyone covering the front of the net. Pionk does end up on that side of the ice shortly after and maybe he shouldn't have been, IDK, but the Rangers had the situation under control barring an unlucky bounce off a skate that turned it into a good opportunity for the Caps.

 

[failure]

What’s AO?

 

[will1066]

Neal Pionk has not excited me for a young D since Thomas Pock.

 

[Leetch3]

Neal Pionk has not excited me for a young D since Thomas Pock.

is that meant as a good thing? lol

 

[will1066]

is that meant as a good thing? lol

Lol sort of a joke. I hope he becomes better than Pock. Pock had promise going in

 

[EXTRAS]

Could he become a consistent 35 point dman?

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

I'll settle for him not being a black hole 5v5, really hope he can improve because while he's getting Points he's a huge liability right now 5v5.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

 

[tradenashnow]

Pionk is getting better and better. I like him on the PP more than Shatterkirk already. He reminds me a lot of Stralman when he just started to figure out how to play well. Stralman showed flashes, had some poor moments but just kept getting better and better.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Pionk is still bad defensively, but you have to wonder if that's in part due to playing against superior opposition. Skjei and Pionk are both struggling because this team lacks a true top pairing.

 

[eco's bones]

Neal Pionk is getting results. For now he's supplanted Shattenkirk on the first power play unit and the power play's been pretty f***ing hot (5 for 12) the last three games and he's assisted on all 5 of those power play goals and I think they're all primary assists.

He's also a regular on the PK--so he's playing all situations and averaging over 20 minutes a night. Ideally IMO he's on your second and maybe even your third pairing but he's a real NHL defenseman and it looks to me like he knows how to run a power play.

 

[nyr2k2]

Here's my thing with Pionk. He was a free asset. All we invested was some amount of scouting and of course a season-plus of player development.

He shouldn't be playing 25 minutes per night but that's just where we're at right now. He has undeniable skill and tenacity. In a year or so, he could be on a third pair with someone like Ryan Lindgren, who can help clean up his messes, particularly around the crease.

And then Pionk can play 13 or whatever ES minutes per night, get PP time, and maybe even PK time if they really like him in that role (he's certainly willing, if not fully able). He can finish with 18 minutes or maybe a little more depending on how many PP chances we get, pick up his 25-30 points (optimistically) and be less of a defensive liability.

He's not perfect but he shouldn't be given how he arrived at where he is at. If he keeps progressing and is used more appropriately I think he can be an extremely useful part. And until then, we make the best of his current abilities and hope he can round out his game in his overexposed role.

I love the guy and am glad we snagged him. A+ acquisition in my book.

 

[Miamipuck]

At least I was alive to see the first two play on the power play together. That may be the best pair of defensemen on the PP that I have ever seen. If I was handpicking a pair from all the rosters in the NHL, it would be difficult to beat those 2.

 

[eco's bones]

Pionk is still bad defensively, but you have to wonder if that's in part due to playing against superior opposition. Skjei and Pionk are both struggling because this team lacks a true top pairing.

I think he needs to improve his defense but also size and strength are an issue. He gets outmuscled quite often. Some smaller D figure ways to negate or lessen the size/strength but he's still working on it. He is also thrown out against top lines and top players quite a lot. AV kind of threw him in at the deep end last year when he was called up. The same is going on this year. I think he's a good player. I'm also expecting that he's going to get better. But he shouldn't be a first pairing guy and that's kind of the ice time he's getting. That happens to teams that aren't that good. Players are put into roles that are above their job description. Pionk's got a motor though--lots of players there's a point where their play falls off--I get the sense from Pionk sometimes that he could play 2 or 3 full overtimes no problem. Carl Hagelin was that way.

For an undrafted college free agent signing he's a home run with men on base.

 

[NYR Viper]

He reminds me of Ryan Ellis A LOT.

 

[redwhiteandblue]

He reminds me of Ryan Ellis A LOT.

Ryan Ellis most certainly plays better D, unless you mean just before being a finished NHL product.

He always has reminded me a lot of Brian Rafalski. Not just style and watching him play but their path to the NHL. Even though I think Rafalski played briefly overseas after college before pro in NA.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

The shimmy at the blue line before passing to Zibanejad is the highlight of the season so far.

 

[TGWL]

He reminds me of Ryan Ellis A LOT.

In what way if you don't mind me asking?

 

[SA16]

Any RHD playing the point on the top Ranger PP is going to get a lot of primary assists by simply passing the puck to Zibanejad for one-timers. Wouldn't really consider racking up primary assists there a skill thing. If you put McQuaid there I'd bet he gets a ton of power play assists as well. The same thing happened to John Carlson when he took over for Mike Green.

That said Shattenkirk has consistently been one of the absolute elite PP dmen in the league and he really should be on the top unit.

 

[NYR Viper]

In what way if you don't mind me asking?

His ability to use leverage and win battles with quick feet in lieu of size. It took Ellis some time to understand how he needed to play at the NHL level. He was supposed to be more of an offensive defenseman when he was drafted. To me, that screams he's hockey smart. I get the same feel from Pionk.

I guess cerebral is the word some people use.

 

[nyr2k2]

Any RHD playing the point on the top Ranger PP is going to get a lot of primary assists by simply passing the puck to Zibanejad for one-timers. Wouldn't really consider racking up primary assists there a skill thing. If you put McQuaid there I'd bet he gets a ton of power play assists as well. The same thing happened to John Carlson when he took over for Mike Green.

That said Shattenkirk has consistently been one of the absolute elite PP dmen in the league and he really should be on the top unit.

This is certainly true if we consider last season to be the true representation of what Zibanejad can do on the PP, when he had 14 goals. His previous 3 seasons he had 4, 2, and 4 goals. Previous 3 seasons he averaged 2:41, 2:31, and 2:23 in PP time. He averaged 2:59 in PP time, an increase of between :18 and :36 seconds over past seasons. This year he's playing 3:30 on the PP and already has the 2 goals in 9 games. So, we'll see what he does this year.

As it pertains specifically to Pionk, there's something to be said for being able to consistently place the puck in a position for a guy to hit a crisp one-timer with some on-net accuracy. It's a "simple" pass but it's one that many guys can't make, reliably. So Pionk's ability to do so may not be special, it's still a skill and not one that just any defenseman can consistently execute.

One of the killer skills Ovechkin has, as I've seen countless times over the years, is the ability to tee-up a pass pretty much anywhere in his general vicinity for a cannon of a one-timer. Zibanejad's one-timer is great, but it's not Ovechkin caliber (of course). My point is Zib's still reliant on someone who can get him the puck where it needs to be. We haven't had that person for a while.