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Player Discussion Neal Pionk

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Pavel Buchnevich said:
And why would that be a bad thing? 31 points his best season, 28 one season, 29 another. I think thats actually more in line with what to expect from Pionk point wise than what we've seen so far. If Pionk can be prime Girardi, this team will be in business. That would be a first pair defenseman, and maybe a few seasons as a 1D. But I don't expect that, I think Pionk is a safe bet to be a top 4D, and maybe can maximize as deputizing on a first pair for a few years.

What I've liked most from Pionk so far is his defense. He looks to really understand how to defend at the NHL level like 20 games into his NHL career. He's by far the best defensively of all the young defensemen we've called up the last few months. He can also skate, pass the puck and put up some points, but he's a smart player who defends first. I don't think SSS corsi stats itself writes a player off. If it doesn't match the eye test, it might even be fair to write it off. Namestnikov has a good corsi recently, and he's been awful, so I think what matters more here is the defense, and the offensive plays he's attempting. He actually looks pretty good against these elite players. He's playing like a player who might be a good NHL'er than just an NHL'er.
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This 1st paragraph gave me PTSD
 
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Pavel Buchnevich said:
Find me one player who got first place Norris votes who was "bad" at that time of their career.
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Ryan Suter 2017, Shea Weber 2017, (yes, this past year) Shea Weber 2015, Niklas Kronwall 2015 (f***ing lol), Andrei Markov 2013, Francois Beauchemin 2013. Adrian Aucoin 2004 (he was never good), Adrian Aucoin 2002, Scott Stevens 2001, Phil Housley 1999 (still a solid player but he received three votes in total and one of them was first place)

Other players who weren't "bad" but nowhere near Norris quality who have received first place votes - Dayrl Sydor, Dustin Byfuglien, Bryan McCabe, Mathieu Schneider, Sheldon Souray, Philippe Boucher, Brian Rafalski.

Somebody somewhere thought all these guys should have won the Norris trophy. It's not like it's something that has never happened.

So no, two random guys thinking Girardi should have won the Norris doesn't sway my opinion. I could find you three somewhere in New York that think Pionk should win the Norris.
 
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Machinehead said:
Ryan Suter 2017, Shea Weber 2017, (yes, this past year) Shea Weber 2015, Niklas Kronwall 2015 (****ing lol), Andrei Markov 2013, Francois Beauchemin 2013. Adrian Aucoin 2004 (he was never good), Adrian Aucoin 2002, Scott Stevens 2001, Phil Housley 1999 (still a solid player but he received three votes in total and one of them was first place)

Other players who weren't "bad" but nowhere near Norris quality who have received first place votes - Dayrl Sydor, Dustin Byfuglien, Bryan McCabe, Mathieu Schneider, Sheldon Souray, Philippe Boucher, Brian Rafalski.

Somebody somewhere thought all these guys should have won the Norris trophy. It's not like it's something that has never happened.

So no, two random guys thinking Girardi should have won the Norris doesn't sway my opinion. I could find you three somewhere in New York that think Pionk should win the Norris.
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Saying Weber or Suter were bad last year is a strech, especially Suter
 
silverfish said:
I think you already found him
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You missed the point. Did he bribe the voters? How does an AHL'er get multiple 1st place Norris votes? The voters vote in a way they think is logical, which is why "bad" players don't get votes.

Even if you disagree with the opinions of the voters, Carp or Brooks or whoever won't be voting Gilmour or O'Gara for the Norris.
 
Pavel Buchnevich said:
You missed the point. Did he bribe the voters? How does an AHL'er get multiple 1st place Norris votes? The voters vote in a way they think is logical, which is why "bad" players don't get votes.

Even if you disagree with the opinions of the voters, Carp or Brooks or whoever won't be voting Gilmour or O'Gara for the Norris.
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I don't know, I tend to not confirm/deny my player evaluation opinions on the what the members of the PHWA believe.

Coincidentally, tho, that 11-12 season was one of two years that G actually finished with a + relCF%, so, he's got that going for him.
 
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Pavel Buchnevich said:
You missed the point. Did he bribe the voters? How does an AHL'er get multiple 1st place Norris votes? The voters vote in a way they think is logical, which is why "bad" players don't get votes.

Even if you disagree with the opinions of the voters, Carp or Brooks or whoever won't be voting Gilmour or O'Gara for the Norris.
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Brooks wanted us to sell at the deadline and rebuild in February 2014, less than four months before we were in the SCF.

Carp thinks Vesey is better than Buchnevich.
 
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Pavel Buchnevich said:
You missed the point. Did he bribe the voters? How does an AHL'er get multiple 1st place Norris votes? The voters vote in a way they think is logical, which is why "bad" players don't get votes.

Even if you disagree with the opinions of the voters, Carp or Brooks or whoever won't be voting Gilmour or O'Gara for the Norris.
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Appeal to authority.
 
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Can we not do the Girardi thing? At the time Girardi received Norris notes, teams didn't place such an emphasis on possession, or on zone exits, or things like that. The game has changed dramatically in terms of what abilities are valued and needed in a pretty short period of time. Some of the things Girardi did back then were seen as valuable, and now they're not. Maybe he would have been a different player is he broke into the NHL today. Who knows. Again, the game has changed. Get over the Girardi stuff.

NEAL PIONK

;)

 
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nyr2k2 said:
Can we not do the Girardi thing? At the time Girardi received Norris notes, teams didn't place such an emphasis on possession, or on zone exits, or things like that. The game has changed dramatically in terms of what abilities are valued and needed in a pretty short period of time. Some of the things Girardi did back then were seen as valuable, and now they're not. Maybe he would have been a different player is he broke into the NHL today. Who knows. Again, the game has changed. Get over the Girardi stuff.

NEAL PIONK

;)
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It's just that when people say Pionk will be another Girardi, and they mean it as a compliment, I wanna stick my head in a lawn mower.
 
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Machinehead said:
It's just that when people say Pionk will be another Girardi, and they mean it as a compliment, I wanna stick my head in a lawn mower.
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Ok, well I said it myself pages ago. I would be fine if Pionk was another Girardi, in terms of how Girardi was perceived at the time of his peak. Yes, we look back and see the awful Corsi and everything else, but his first half-decade in the league that's not what people were talking about. They were talking about the tough, warrior, shutdown D. Maybe he was never actually that, but that's how most people viewed him at the time.
 
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nyr2k2 said:
Ok, well I said it myself pages ago. I would be fine if Pionk was another Girardi, in terms of how Girardi was perceived at the time of his peak. Yes, we look back and see the awful Corsi and everything else, but his first half-decade in the league that's not what people were talking about. They were talking about the tough, warrior, shutdown D. Maybe he was never actually that, but that's how most people viewed him at the time.
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If Pionk if a #2/#3 D who can play with our top LHD and provide shutdown defense, as a mould, without all of the other drama, then sure. Sign me right up.
 
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Dumb play on the tying goal against, very basic concept to tie up the stick... Going to blame the coaching here as I saw Klein do the same repeatedly.

Same with Holden.

Theres a reason why this team gives up last minute goals so often.

Its the contrarian coaching tactics.
 
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It looked like he thought he needed to take away a cross crease pass headed for a guy on the other side of the net

He just plain kinda screwed it up
 
Neal got butt-checked right to the family jewels. Probably stunned him a bit, but that’s not an excuse when the game is on the line.

The only good thing is that his f*** up led to us only getting 1 point last night. Winning does this team no good right now.
 
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