Player Discussion Neal Pionk: Part II

[ReggieDunlop68]

How many times have I been told that +/- is the most bull****iest of all hockey stats.

It depends how on what hot garbage is flying out of a posters ass at that specific moment.

In this case, +/- was relevant to the poster.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

It's not Marc Staal.

Imagine, just for a moment, we have a proper LHD who can play top pair minutes. Playing with Pionk on the 2nd pair.

 

[The S5]

My biggest "actual" problem with his game (as if getting shelled isn't an actual problem?) is that I can't recall him executing a single zone exit this year that wasn't an aimless flip around the boards. Any opponent with an IQ above potato is waiting by the boards for their free interception.

He's not a tough defensive defenseman. He has the ability to do transition. He doesn't have to toss the puck around the boards to nowhere.

Easy on the hyperbole. If you haven't watched one executed breakout then you haven't watched any of the games.
Honest question, did you grow up playing the game?

 

[Machinehead]

Imagine, just for a moment, we have a proper LHD who can play top pair minutes. Playing with Pionk on the 2nd pair.

Pionk is clearly the drag on the pair. Putting it on Staal is disingenuous.

When you're paired with Staal, and you're the drag, that's pretty depressing.

 

[Machinehead]

Easy on the hyperbole. If you haven't watched one executed breakout then you haven't watched any of the games.
Honest question, did you grow up playing the game?

As usual, when there's no better argument, we fall back on watching and playing the game.

Frankly, I don't care. When the metrics are that bad, they tell me all I need to know. Nothing I can watch will change what the results are. The Rangers are barely an NHL team when Pionk is on the ice. I don't care how we got there. I don't need to watch it.

 

[FireGerardGallant]

As usual, when there's no better argument, we fall back on watching and playing the game.

Frankly, I don't care. When the metrics are that bad, they tell me all I need to know. Nothing I can watch will change what the results are. The Rangers are barely an NHL team when Pionk is on the ice. I don't care how we got there. I don't need to watch it.

The "did you even play the game" argument is probably the stupidest possible argument someone can make.

 

[Machinehead]

2013-14 Sabres (widely considered the worst team in the statistical era)

43% CF
36% GF
42% xGF

Neal Pionk 18-19

40.8% CF
37.5% GF
43.7% xGF

When Pionk is on the ice, the Rangers are comparable to one of the worst teams in NHL history.

We've reached the point where this performance can be judged without watching a minute of it.

If you wanna watch to know why, be my guest, but I'm not interested.

If you wanna watch to tell me something different, you're wrong.

 

[Machinehead]

The "did you even play the game" argument is probably the stupidest possible argument someone can make.

If I did, and I hurt my team this much, I would quit.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

We've reached the point where this performance can be judged without watching a minute of it.

If you wanna watch to know why, be my guest, but I'm not interested.

If you wanna watch to tell me something different, you're wrong.

good think rational people and ones in charge of Rangers and other hockey teams don't think like this.

you've taken a ton of L's on players over the years btw with only statwatching.....McIlrath, Wiercoch, Nakladl, Franson etc....

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

good think rational people and ones in charge of Rangers and other hockey teams don't think like this.

you've taken a ton of L's on players over the years btw with only statwatching.....McIlrath, Wiercoch, Nakladl, Franson etc....

I think these 2 are strictly SF, not MH.

Hes not completely wrong about Pionk though.

 

[Machinehead]

good think rational people and ones in charge of Rangers and other hockey teams don't think like this.

you've taken a ton of L's on players over the years btw with only statwatching.....McIlrath, Wiercoch, Nakladl, Franson etc....

What L's did I take on Wiercioch and Franson?

All I've said about them is that I'd rather have them being my #6 D than absolute garbage like Girardi, Orpik, Sbisa, etc.

 

[Machinehead]

I think these 2 are strictly SF, not MH.

Hes not completely wrong about Pionk though.

I've agreed with SF on Franson.

I know nothing about Nakladal, honestly.

Wiercioch was my fault.

 

[Machinehead]

Although I will say this, Girardi has been an NHL player this year lol

 

[eco's bones]

It depends how on what hor garbage is flying out of a posters ass at that specific moment.

In this case, +/- was relevant to the poster.

Have to keep in mind that this is the age of the armchair quarterback, the backseat driver, the statistician and the unelected technocrat and an absolute circus clown of a billionaire for a world leader. So it's important for the rest of us to know our place. I admit that following the Rangers since 71-72 and then playing in hockey leagues (shitty ones mind you) for 30 years or so (ending when my knee joints told me to cease and desist) even further discredits my knowledge vis-a-vis today's game. Now if I'd played in better leagues that would probably even further devalue anything I had to say on the subject.

What it really comes down to is I'm thoroughly f***ed up but I didn't really need anyone to tell me so because I recognized that as a fact a long long time ago.

 

[The S5]

As usual, when there's no better argument, we fall back on watching and playing the game.

Frankly, I don't care. When the metrics are that bad, they tell me all I need to know. Nothing I can watch will change what the results are. The Rangers are barely an NHL team when Pionk is on the ice. I don't care how we got there. I don't need to watch it.

Okay, so you have never played.
Thanks for the context.

 

[Machinehead]

Have to keep in mind that this is the age of the armchair quarterback, the backseat driver, the statistician and the unelected technocrat and an absolute circus clown of a billionaire for a world leader. So it's important for the rest of us to know our place. I admit that following the Rangers since 71-72 and then playing in hockey leagues (****ty ones mind you) for 30 years or so (ending when my knee joints told me to cease and desist) even further discredits my knowledge vis-a-vis today's game. Now if I'd played in better leagues that would probably even further devalue anything I had to say on the subject.

What it really comes down to is I'm thoroughly ****ed up but I didn't really need anyone to tell me so because I recognized that as a fact a long long time ago.

Nobody is devaluing your knowledge because you've watched a long time and played the game.

The point is that people with an intimate relationship to the game are missing things.

Somebody in this organization -somebody who's played, managed, and is paid to make decisions in this game- thinks Pionk is a top pairing defenseman. They're wrong. There's no other way to address it.

 

[Machinehead]

Ok, I do remember Pionk making one definitive controlled breakout.

It was that bullshit against Montreal.

I said that night that he would live off that goal for months. Lo and behold...

 

[eco's bones]

Nobody is devaluing your knowledge because you've watched a long time and played the game.

The point is that people with an intimate relationship to the game are missing things.

Somebody in this organization -somebody who's played, managed, and is paid to make decisions in this game- thinks Pionk is a top pairing defenseman. They're wrong. There's no other way to address it.

I was being a bit facetious Machinehead and please forgive me. It will happen this time of year--the wife having started the usual bingewatching of Hallmark channel x-mas shows which is going to go on for a good month and it's surely going to bring out the thornier side of my personality. Anyway you kind of walked right into the +/- debacle all on your own. Don't do it again.

 

[Machinehead]

I was being a bit facetious Machinehead and please forgive me. It will happen this time of year--the wife having started the usual bingewatching of Hallmark channel x-mas shows which is going to go on for a good month and it's surely going to bring out the thornier side of my personality. Anyway you kind of walked right into the +/- debacle all on your own. Don't do it again.

But it's different. In the future I'll just use GF%

 

[Machinehead]

The Devils woke up and finally stopped bombing Steve Santini with some of the hardest usage in the league, to which he was responding with corsi in the 30's. In fact, they went to the other extreme and sent him down.

I certainly think Pionk's offensive ability keeps him on the team, but I hope we wake up too.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

2013-14 Sabres (widely considered the worst team in the statistical era)

43% CF
36% GF
42% xGF

Neal Pionk 18-19

40.8% CF
37.5% GF
43.7% xGF

When Pionk is on the ice, the Rangers are comparable to one of the worst teams in NHL history.

We've reached the point where this performance can be judged without watching a minute of it.

If you wanna watch to know why, be my guest, but I'm not interested.

If you wanna watch to tell me something different, you're wrong.

Let me know when you return from the long journey of pulling that stat our of your you-kn0w-what and we can discuss. Must be uplifting to have a fun, young team to watch every night but a nagging penchant for murdering the right defensemen

 

[Machinehead]

Let me know when you return from the long journey of pulling that stat our of your you-kn0w-what and we can discuss. Must be uplifting to have a fun, young team to watch every night but a nagging penchant for murdering the right defensemen

I didn't pull it from anywhere. It's goals, shots, and chances. It all literally happened.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I didn't pull it from anywhere. It's goals, shots, and chances. It all literally happened.

Its a young, exciting player trying to find his way compared to an entire season's worth of the Buffalo Sabres. It's a cheap shot, and the work of a malcontent. Besides, shouldnt you be pissed at Quinn for this instead of the undrafted guy that has proven to be a hell of an offensive talent?

 

[The S5]

I didn't pull it from anywhere. It's goals, shots, and chances. It all literally happened.

What is really mind boggling is your absolute confidence that you know more than NHL coaches, scouts and GM's. I can't believe they aren't knocking down your virtual door and throwing money at you to fix their teams.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Easy on the hyperbole. If you haven't watched one executed breakout then you haven't watched any of the games.
Honest question, did you grow up playing the game?

Stop. I never played hockey but people still respect my opinion. Playing the game doesn’t make you an expert