Player Discussion Neal Pionk: Part II
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Machinehead
The Olli react should add points!
Drew Doughty has one of the best GF% in the league which speaks to how awful +/- is.
Doughty is -1 5v5 on a team that's -10 when he's off the ice. Pionk is -6 on a team that's +5 when he's off the ice.
Machinehead
The Olli react should add points!
What he's doing defensively is unprecedented in my lifetime and I watched Dan Girardi
Machinehead
The Olli react should add points!
effen
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Machinehead
The Olli react should add points!
We've acknowledged that he's good on the powerplay. Apparently that makes it ok to suck everywhere else.
Unless you're Kevin Shattenkirk. Then it's not ok.
effen
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Getting a workload unheard of for a guy with 50 NHL games, let alone a UDFA. You're grading him like a finished product instead of on a curve.
Shattenkirk has 550 NHL games and is a finished product.
Machinehead
The Olli react should add points!
PlamsUnlimited
Big Church Bells
effen
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This is what cutting your teeth looks like when the coach doesn't shelter you and probably hinders you by stapling Marc Staal to you.
Machinehead
The Olli react should add points!
I wanna hear actual criticisms and problems with his game. This is were analytics and advanced stats are useless. We know the team gets shelled when he's out there, and we know the conclusion that follows from getting shelled > is he can't play defense. I don't necessarily disagree.
Now here's where the discussion generally dies or ends. Since there are no metrics or convenient numbers to grab, and you basically have to go under the hood and watch the game tape, some people don't have time or access to that. Or if they did, they don't have scouting and hockey skills or knowledge to understand.
Then the noise of the back and forth between people who think this guy is good and the ones who think he's bad.
I've done little videos on the guy here and there but not the deep deep dive i've been wanting to do.
On a low level, I just don't think he's athletic and strong enough right now. He doesn't really win puck battles or separate guys from pucks. Ovi absolutely bullied him below the goal lines on the forecheck yesterday. Gets knocked off when protecting the puck along the boards. And he doesn't have the first step to separate from forecheckers. I've constantly criticized him for getting bottled up on the forecheck in puck retrieval situations.
His overall skating is overrated. He'll wow you with those rushes where he has time to get wound up and skate but he's not powerful, explosive or strong on his skates, doesn't have great edge work.
I can see why he was a UDFA. I think he's a longshot to be an impact or regular NHL D but I still see some glimmer of potential. He's a good kid and I hope he can figure some things out in his game and be more consistent with this team longer term.
Now here's where the discussion generally dies or ends. Since there are no metrics or convenient numbers to grab, and you basically have to go under the hood and watch the game tape, some people don't have time or access to that. Or if they did, they don't have scouting and hockey skills or knowledge to understand.
Then the noise of the back and forth between people who think this guy is good and the ones who think he's bad.
I've done little videos on the guy here and there but not the deep deep dive i've been wanting to do.
On a low level, I just don't think he's athletic and strong enough right now. He doesn't really win puck battles or separate guys from pucks. Ovi absolutely bullied him below the goal lines on the forecheck yesterday. Gets knocked off when protecting the puck along the boards. And he doesn't have the first step to separate from forecheckers. I've constantly criticized him for getting bottled up on the forecheck in puck retrieval situations.
His overall skating is overrated. He'll wow you with those rushes where he has time to get wound up and skate but he's not powerful, explosive or strong on his skates, doesn't have great edge work.
I can see why he was a UDFA. I think he's a longshot to be an impact or regular NHL D but I still see some glimmer of potential. He's a good kid and I hope he can figure some things out in his game and be more consistent with this team longer term.
Machinehead
The Olli react should add points!
My biggest "actual" problem with his game (as if getting shelled isn't an actual problem?) is that I can't recall him executing a single zone exit this year that wasn't an aimless flip around the boards. Any opponent with an IQ above potato is waiting by the boards for their free interception.
He's not a tough defensive defenseman. He has the ability to do transition. He doesn't have to toss the puck around the boards to nowhere.
I agree and even mentioned that in my post. Puck retrieval/zone exit/transition are an issue. Then you have to go deeper and ask why is that an issue...I mentioned the inability to separate/buy time from forecheckers. Then again you have to ask why can't he do that.
"Getting shelled" is a symptom as much as it is the illness itself. There's reasons why NYR continually get shelled when NP is out there but you have to diagnose why or you won't get anywhere.
effen
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Team doesn't have particularly good or even existent breakouts, that's a coaching issue. Pionk himself doesn't have the agility + acceleration combo ADA has to reliably skate the puck out himself.
He's a #5 physically + talent wise who thinks he can pull off #1 plays which is why he alternately looks so "good" and "bad".
DanielBrassard
It's all so tiresome
Have to agree. It's nice to know the numbers, but if we don't understand why they are the way they are then it doesn't help us (Rangers coaches) fix the problems. Or if it can even be fixed.
Well Pionk is a reason why. The inability to retrieve the puck and buy some time so he can use the right option leads to too many broken plays and guys having to vacate their position on the breakout and now go back to defensive zone coverage position.
Amazing Kreiderman
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Machinehead
The Olli react should add points!
I mean there's obviously no black and white answer and it's not just one or even three things. It's tedious work but you could learn a lot going back and watching a player without the emotions and distraction of hte game in real time.
DanielBrassard
It's all so tiresome
Sure. That's sort of what the all 3 zones project is, which would help us identify just how bad or good he is at transitioning the puck, defending the puck, contributing to shots in the offensive zone. That data isn't readily available though.
Are those the stats that track possessing/carrying the puck over the blue lines? I mean I think it might help a bit but I think it's gonna tell us what we already know. NP probably sucks at giving and gaining the line with the pill. Back to the video to see why.
DanielBrassard
It's all so tiresome
Pretty much, Zone exits for, entries for/against, shot assists and shots taken.
