Player Discussion Neal Pionk: Part II

[BobMarleyNYR]

ADA has had some rather adventurous moments in his own zone. I would rather he continue to build his confidence a bit more. Then begin to spoon feed him other settings to his environment and not thrust him into the fire.

The ADA = Americans with Disabilities Act, that law few people respect... TDA now!

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

I need to see that second goal again but it sure felt like pionk had zero help there and was in a pick your poison position where he picked wrong

I'll never understand why some folks try so hard to downplay a goal.

 

[gorangers0525]

Deangelos is significantly more impressive in his own zone, without the puck, than Pionk. I’d go as far as saying that is Pionk’s biggest weakness, guy continues to be an absolute disaster no matter his competition. His offensive flashes of skill can be incredible, but he seriously does not impresss me in any which way without the puck.

I agree that ADA should be slowly introduced into higher minutes, but the idea that Pionk deserves those minutes over literally anyone else on this team is hilarious. Both are skilled players with potential to get better, I believe ADA’s ceiling is much higher.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Deangelos is significantly more impressive in his own zone, without the puck, than Pionk. I’d go as far as saying that is Pionk’s biggest weakness, guy continues to be an absolute disaster no matter his competition. His offensive flashes of skill can be incredible, but he seriously does not impresss me in any which way without the puck.

I agree that ADA should be slowly introduced into higher minutes, but the idea that Pionk deserves those minutes over literally anyone else on this team is hilarious. Both are skilled players with potential to get better, I believe ADA’s ceiling is much higher.

Don't see this at all. I'd argue that ADA's greatest advantage over Pionk is his play with the puck in the defensive zone. Pionk can be overpowered and does make occasional mistakes, but he's usually in the right place and engaged with the offensive player; whereas I see ADA far more often being the guy who's standing alone not covering anyone when the puck goes in the net (though credit where credit's due – he's been better since returning).

Yes, he could have played the 2nd goal better last night, but let's not pretend like getting walked by AA down the wing while trying to defend a 3-on-2 is some mark of defensive ineptitude.

 

[Rockets17]

Don't see this at all. I'd argue that ADA's greatest advantage over Pionk is his play with the puck in the defensive zone. Pionk can be overpowered and does make occasional mistakes, but he's usually in the right place and engaged with the offensive player; whereas I see ADA far more often being the guy who's standing alone not covering anyone when the puck goes in the net (though credit where credit's due – he's been better since returning).

Yes, he could have played the 2nd goal better last night, but let's not pretend like getting walked by AA down the wing while trying to defend a 3-on-2 is some mark of defensive ineptitude.

Actually getting walked by AA down the wing is a mark of defensive ineptitude. Even on a 3 on 2 the d-mans job is to force the attacking player to shoot the puck or force him behind the net. Letting him get to the front of the net without even touching him is a bad play. Granted that even a fully healthy McDonough would have had his hands full with a player with as much speed as AA. Also, he's on the ice with Staal so I'm sure he's cheating towards the middle which ended up giving AA too much room. Pionk's a smart player and he will learn.

 

[NYR713]

I wasnt able to catch the game. Did they challenge the AA goal for off side? Because looking at the replay, he looks off side. While his back of his skate blade is on the line still, he was really moving and that puck had some space to cross that line.

 

[mrmovies779]

I wasnt able to catch the game. Did they challenge the AA goal for off side? Because looking at the replay, he looks off side. While his back of his skate blade is on the line still, he was really moving and that puck had some space to cross that line.

You can put yourself offside as long as you have control of the puck.Not sure if A.A was on the play though.I remember Quinn and staff checking it then telling the ref to go ahead with the faceoff.

 

[NYRFAN218]

They didn't challenge but the Rangers took a look at it because they showed Quinn pointing to center to tell the refs they can go ahead and drop the puck.

 

[eco's bones]

I wasnt able to catch the game. Did they challenge the AA goal for off side? Because looking at the replay, he looks off side. While his back of his skate blade is on the line still, he was really moving and that puck had some space to cross that line.

Neal does not have great position there. It also looks like the backcheck might have lost AA which isn't hard to do--he may be the fastest player in the league. So Pionk is not in good position but he's not getting any help either. 95% of NHL d-men would have a huge problem going one on one with AA when he's at full speed. I wondered about that play being offside and from the shot above it looks like it probably was and should have been challenged.

Every team is going to have moments like this throughout a given year. All of our RD have defensive issues so it's likely we're going to have more moments than most. To me a more egregious mistake was on Detroit's first goal.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Neal does not have great position there. It also looks like the backcheck might have lost AA which isn't hard to do--he may be the fastest player in the league. So Pionk is not in good position but he's not getting any help either. 95% of NHL d-men would have a huge problem going one on one with AA when he's at full speed. I wondered about that play being offside and from the shot above it looks like it probably was and should have been challenged.

Every team is going to have moments like this throughout a given year. All of our RD have defensive issues so it's likely we're going to have more moments than most. To me a more egregious mistake was on Detroit's first goal.

The Ranger staff checked the play out as fast as they could and relayed to Quinn it appeared onside. They werent going to risk a minor penalty and challenge it unless they were almost positive it was offside.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Actually getting walked by AA down the wing is a mark of defensive ineptitude. Even on a 3 on 2 the d-mans job is to force the attacking player to shoot the puck or force him behind the net. Letting him get to the front of the net without even touching him is a bad play. Granted that even a fully healthy McDonough would have had his hands full with a player with as much speed as AA. Also, he's on the ice with Staal so I'm sure he's cheating towards the middle which ended up giving AA too much room. Pionk's a smart player and he will learn.

I don't mean to be "that guy" who goes posting word definitions, but my exact point was that while he could have played it better, it wasn't a mark of ineptitude (i.e. without skill or aptitude for a particular task or assignment; maladroit; generally awkward or clumsy; haplessly incompetent).

When you say "even a fully healthy McDonagh would've had his hands full" with that play, you're making my case for me.

 

[Inferno]

I don't think pionk made a bad defensive play. I think he made the wrong defensive play. To me there's a huge difference. And I'm not a pionk Homer whatsoever.

 

[NYR713]

You can put yourself offside as long as you have control of the puck.Not sure if A.A was on the play though.I remember Quinn and staff checking it then telling the ref to go ahead with the faceoff.

Yeah I wasn't looking at Nielsen other than where the puck was. Even frame by frame, from what video I can get, it would be tough to tell because in that still frame, the back of his blade is still on the line. But he was moving pretty quick and that puck still has a foot and a half. Moot point now. I was just curious if it was looked at.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Don't see this at all. I'd argue that ADA's greatest advantage over Pionk is his play with the puck in the defensive zone. Pionk can be overpowered and does make occasional mistakes, but he's usually in the right place and engaged with the offensive player; whereas I see ADA far more often being the guy who's standing alone not covering anyone when the puck goes in the net (though credit where credit's due – he's been better since returning).

Yes, he could have played the 2nd goal better last night, but let's not pretend like getting walked by AA down the wing while trying to defend a 3-on-2 is some mark of defensive ineptitude.

I feel like this is kind of an old school way of looking at defense.

DeAngelo is way, way, way better against the rush and in the NZ, and I don't think hes great at either. He's also light years ahead at being calm with the puck under pressure. Those three things are way more important than the bolded, because if you don't f*** those things up, you're not going to spend too much time defending in your own end.

Pionk gets no favors in that regard playing with Staal, but he makes plenty of mistakes independent of Marc. DeAngelo has been pretty steady if not great when hes played where as Pionk has shifted between being the hero and the goat.

They should both continue to play ahead of the vets on the roster though, be that McQuaid or Shattenkirk.

 

[True Blue]

In order to move the puck, you need to get it back somehow... at least without a face-off at center ice.

Yeah, I made that point later. The premise that your puck moving skills is what makes defense work is faulty. You cannot puck move your way to obtaining the puck. Unless people are just not giving DeAngelo any responsibility for that and it becomes everyone else's job to get the puck and then move it to him.

 

[True Blue]

With Pionk the conversation always seems to drift to what he isn’t — as if he’s a 5 year veteran.

The real problem with Pionk is that he is not DeAngelo and is not a metric darling.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

The real problem with Pionk is that he is not DeAngelo and is not a metric darling.

There are actual problems with Pionk's game that go beyond the metrics. They've been discussed in here ad nauseum.

I don't know, I think its a discussion thats more than worth having with out going all "DUURRR ANALYTICS." Even if we leave them out of it, there is plenty to discuss about what he doesn't (and does) do well.

 

[TheGortonConspiracy]

There are actual problems with Pionk's game that go beyond the metrics. They've been discussed in here ad nauseum.

I don't know, I think its a discussion thats more than worth having with out going all "DUURRR ANALYTICS." Even if we leave them out of it, there is plenty to discuss about what he doesn't (and does) do well.

Pionk is by no means perfect but he seems seems to be trending in the right direction. Gotta remember he's still young, yet already less of a liability than Smith and Shattenkirk. I'm guessing you'd rather have Chytil, Andersson, Pionk, and maybe others all AHL-bound for the season. But I think Pionk is a great example of why there is great value in playing in the NHL.

Pionk NHL '17-18: 28GP, 14P (0.5 PPG)
Pionk AHL '17-18: 48GP, 17P (0.35 PPG)
Pionk NHL '18-19: 14GP, 9P (0.64 PPG)

The NHL and AHL are entirely different leagues, and while Pionk's point totals don't tell the full story, there are many examples of players being able to perform in one league and not the other when being bounced around. I personally would rather have the young guys focused on figuring it out at the NHL level rather than the AHL. We're in a unique opportunity where it's ok for us to have a "learning" season, and I think we should take advantage of it.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

No I'd rather have him and the others play minutes in the NHL until they show me a reason that they can't handle them. I've already said that he and DeAngelo should be getting top RHD minutes ahead of Shatty and McQuaid. I hope Quinn gives Andersson and Chytil more of an opportunity to do things rather than riding veterans to try to squeeze out loser points, but perhaps that will happen in time.

Pionk has been very productive from an offensive standpoint since stepping into the league, that hasn't been the issue.

He's been horrible from keeping the other team from doing things when hes out on the ice. It's a learning process and by no means is going to be how he performs forever (it may be, but it'd be silly to write him off already) but we should be honest in our assessments. He's been a surprisingly productive offensive player with some pretty glaring defensive issues.

 

[Edge]

There’s a tendency to group ADA and Pionk together, and I understand why they’re linked.

But we should take into consideration that ADA has played more than double the number of pro games as Pionk.

I also believe, and always have, that ADA’s ceiling is significantly higher than Pionk. So that’s already an uphill battle for Pionk.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Well, I’m one of his biggest proponents, but I’ll say it: that pass on the fourth goal was NOT good.

Yeah, someone should’ve come back to him, but I have no idea what Joe’s talking about there. He had no need to make that pass.

 

[Algernop Kreider]

Well, I’m one of his biggest proponents, but I’ll say it: that pass on the fourth goal was NOT good.

Yeah, someone should’ve come back to him, but I have no idea what Joe’s talking about there. He had no need to make that pass.

The coverage was also not good. I guess you can decide whether to blame Pionk or Buchnevich, but it looked like Buch was covering enough ground that the defenseman is supposed to cover the pass on the 2-0n-1.

 

[BroadwayStorm]

Both here and at work I still get so pissed seeing that people care more about winning meaningless games than letting these kids develop and help us get a lottery pick while we still can. It astounds me how many Ranger fans simply DON'T want to win a stanley cup and are content with killing these kids and not the trash veterans infesting this organization right now. Some of the "analysis" of Pionk's defensive ability on this thread are laughable.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

Both here and at work I still get so pissed seeing that people care more about winning meaningless games than letting these kids develop and help us get a lottery pick while we still can. It astounds me how many Ranger fans simply DON'T want to win a stanley cup and are content with killing these kids and not the trash veterans infesting this organization right now. Some of the "analysis" of Pionk's defensive ability on this thread are laughable.

But think of the bright side at least.

 

[egelband]

Nearly 26 mins for Pionk today. Wow.
Quinn needs to have a sit-down with some of the geniuses on this forum. They have some very telling stats for him.