Player Discussion Neal Pionk: Part II

[SA16]

All his production has been on the PP. His 5v5 point rate is 0.43 per 60 and he's been on the ice for 5 GF and 17 GA (and 20 more CA60 than CF60).

I dont want to be dismissive, but that pretty much lists every decent enough defenseman to have his first two seasons with this team. This team is the master of either drafting young guys who never make it, or bringing in a veteran to take the minutes away from a kid.

The one thing Pionk does that I love is he just gets a shot through. It's such a basic part of the game. There is not any reason to throw it up and down the wall and across the points all day. The puck has to go toward the net to score. The KISS approach is so good to see after years of shotless PPs.

He doesn't get his shot through any more than other Ranger dmen this year. In fact he has been below average. In all situations:

Staal 59%
DeAngelo 59%
Skjei 48%
Claesson 48%
Pionk 47% (downgrade from last year he was 51% then)
Shattenkirk 46%
Smith 41%
McQuaid 23% (lol)

On the PP he has 4 shots on 16 attempts (25%). Shattenkirk is 14 for 23 (61%).

If you look at all dmen with 10+ shot attempts on the PP his 25% is second worst in the league

 

[Lays]

 

[NYR Viper]

All his production has been on the PP. His 5v5 point rate is 0.43 per 60 and he's been on the ice for 5 GF and 17 GA (and 20 more CA60 than CF60).



He doesn't get his shot through any more than other Ranger dmen this year. In fact he has been below average. In all situations:

Staal 59%
DeAngelo 59%
Skjei 48%
Claesson 48%
Pionk 47% (downgrade from last year he was 51% then)
Shattenkirk 46%
Smith 41%
McQuaid 23% (lol)

On the PP he has 4 shots on 16 attempts (25%). Shattenkirk is 14 for 23 (61%).

If you look at all dmen with 10+ shot attempts on the PP his 25% is second worst in the league

What stat is this? What does this percentage entail? Shots that reach the goalie? Shots on net? What about a tipped shot, does that count?

 

[Kovalev27]

I’m positive if you give ADA or Shattenkirk those pp mins they’d be producing even more. The key to the pp is the Zibanejad/Kreider connection.

Shattenkirk not getting those mins is asinine. Prob a top 3 or 4 pp guy in the world.

 

[SA16]

What stat is this? What does this percentage entail? Shots that reach the goalie? Shots on net? What about a tipped shot, does that count?

Shots on goal per shot attempt.

It does not include tipped as that is not tracked by the NHL in any way.

 

[SA16]

He is now last on the team, among D, in 5v5 points/60 and has 1 primary 5v5 point on the year.

He has a point on 100% of the PPG scored while he was on the ice. The highest any dman has been since 2016 is Seth Jones at 80% (250+ mins). There are five players over 70% (Jones/Karlsson/Rielly/Barrie/Subban).

 

[aufheben]

Both here and at work I still get so pissed seeing that people care more about winning meaningless games than letting these kids develop and help us get a lottery pick while we still can. It astounds me how many Ranger fans simply DON'T want to win a stanley cup and are content with killing these kids and not the trash veterans infesting this organization right now. Some of the "analysis" of Pionk's defensive ability on this thread are laughable.

What are they, house plants?

 

[Filthy Dangles]

He is now last on the team, among D, in 5v5 points/60 and has 1 primary 5v5 point on the year.

He has a point on 100% of the PPG scored while he was on the ice. The highest any dman has been since 2016 is Seth Jones at 80% (250+ mins). There are five players over 70% (Jones/Karlsson/Rielly/Barrie/Subban).

And? Erik Karlsson has 2 primary 5v5 points on the year.

His rates are going to be lower becaue he plays the most minutes. You really haven't gleaned or told us much posting these numbers.

 

[SA16]

And? Erik Karlsson has 2 primary 5v5 points on the year.

His rates are going to be lower becaue he plays the most minutes. You really haven't gleaned or told us much posting these numbers.

This is not true. In general there is a trend that the more ice time a player gets the higher their scoring rate. This is because generally the players who get the most ice time are better than those who get the least. You don't think having 1 primary 5v5 point in 21 games is an issue?

And Erik Karlsson has a history of being an elite 5v5 scorer. Pionk does not.

 

[Unusual Suspect]

This is not true. In general there is a trend that the more ice time a player gets the higher their scoring rate. This is because generally the players who get the most ice time are better than those who get the least.

And Erik Karlsson has a history of being an elite 5v5 scorer. Pionk does not.

Very true. Pionk does not even HAVE a "history", for God's sake. This board would be screamingly funny if it didn't make me nauseous first. Pionk is coming along great, so are the other young players right now, and even Kreider seems to be showing up night-in, night-out. Is it time to stop trying to sound oracular and instead just enjoy what's happening yet? WTF....

Some of you geniuses are really going to ruin your family's Thanksgivings tomorrow, I suspect. It's the kind of thing you get off on.

 

[SA16]

I don't really know what is so negative about that? Any number you look at he has been absolutely terrible 5v5. His PP production has been great but if you're expecting to continue you're just setting yourself up to be disappointed because I'm reasonably sure he won't continue to be the greatest PP player in the history of the NHL. That's not to say he won't be adequate but the team also has the guy who has been the num 1 PP dmen in the league over the last five years so it's highly unlikely to suggest that he's actually better at it than Shattenkirk.

The Rangers PP hasn't actually been any better with him on the ice. They're just shooting 25%. For reference over the last 3 years the Sharks have shot 12.5% with Burns, the Caps 14.5% with Carlson, and the Pens 15% with Letang.

So again you can conclude either:
A. Pionk is the greatest PP dman the world has ever seen - by a lot
B. It's a fluke.

 

[bobbop]

For all intents and purposes, he is still a Goddamn rookie!

 

[Levitate]

Pionk has good physical tools but his positioning and ability to read plays in the defensive/neutral zone are highly questionable.

IMO they’re things that can be ironed out with proper coaching. Even if he improves to mediocre defensively, I think he’ll be a valuable guy, especially if he’s going to put up 40+.

Also, think Staal is probably the worst possible partner for him.

I think he's actually perhaps getting a bit better at neutral zone and defensive zone reads (off the rush anyways) but if his underlying stats don't improve then he ultimately looks like a guy with tools but is playing minutes that are too tough for him

 

[EdJovanovski]

What do you guys think of us having Zibby at the right point on the PP? I don’t get why they took him away from the Ovi spot
Edit: thought this was GDT lol

 

[Matz03]

I’m positive if you give ADA or Shattenkirk those pp mins they’d be producing even more. The key to the pp is the Zibanejad/Kreider connection.

Shattenkirk not getting those mins is asinine. Prob a top 3 or 4 pp guy in the world.

Yes but they both got their shots earlier, especially Shatty, didn't produce and the coach is sticking with what's been working. So not surprisingly they're on pp2. When Pionk cools off they'll be given a shot again on pp1.

 

[Matz03]

I don't really know what is so negative about that? Any number you look at he has been absolutely terrible 5v5. His PP production has been great but if you're expecting to continue you're just setting yourself up to be disappointed because I'm reasonably sure he won't continue to be the greatest PP player in the history of the NHL. That's not to say he won't be adequate but the team also has the guy who has been the num 1 PP dmen in the league over the last five years so it's highly unlikely to suggest that he's actually better at it than Shattenkirk.

The Rangers PP hasn't actually been any better with him on the ice. They're just shooting 25%. For reference over the last 3 years the Sharks have shot 12.5% with Burns, the Caps 14.5% with Carlson, and the Pens 15% with Letang.

So again you can conclude either:
A. Pionk is the greatest PP dman the world has ever seen - by a lot
B. It's a fluke.

It's a fluke, it's a streak, whatever you want to call it. Time will come when pp1 will slow down and he'll try one of the other D again there. There isn't a coach in the league that will change a PP unit while it's scoring regardless of high shooting %.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

For all intents and purposes, he is still a Goddamn rookie!

Technically, he isn't because he played more than 26 games last season

 

[darko]

I don't really know what is so negative about that? Any number you look at he has been absolutely terrible 5v5. His PP production has been great but if you're expecting to continue you're just setting yourself up to be disappointed because I'm reasonably sure he won't continue to be the greatest PP player in the history of the NHL. That's not to say he won't be adequate but the team also has the guy who has been the num 1 PP dmen in the league over the last five years so it's highly unlikely to suggest that he's actually better at it than Shattenkirk.

The Rangers PP hasn't actually been any better with him on the ice. They're just shooting 25%. For reference over the last 3 years the Sharks have shot 12.5% with Burns, the Caps 14.5% with Carlson, and the Pens 15% with Letang.

So again you can conclude either:
A. Pionk is the greatest PP dman the world has ever seen - by a lot
B. It's a fluke.

Clearly the greatest PP d-man the world has ever seen.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

 

[haohmaru]

Man, it's really something to see all this negativity about a young guy that we basically got for free who has been thrust into a 1D role with, of all people, Marc Staal and figuring it out while excelling on the Power Play.

Never change, HFB.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

Man, it's really something to see all this negativity about a young guy that we basically got for free who has been thrust into a 1D role with, of all people, Marc Staal and figuring it out while excelling on the Power Play.

Never change, HFB.

As if regardless of how things play out, there is some odd narrative behind the scenes at all times...

 

[Harbour Dog]

Man, it's really something to see all this negativity about a young guy that we basically got for free who has been thrust into a 1D role with, of all people, Marc Staal and figuring it out while excelling on the Power Play.

Never change, HFB.

I think we're all happy we signed him. He's ahead of where most of us would of expected him to be at this point.

The 'negativity' is literally just guys pointing out how unsustainable his point totals are. Even his Corsi doesn't get harped on too much, because like you said; he's a kid who is playing big minutes with a sloth.

I'm fine with keeping him in the deep end all year and letting him figure it out, but I also want to be able to realistically look at the state of his game. And right now, he is still over his head for how he is getting used. It isn't an indictment on him as not being NHL material; it's just a fact.

 

[SA16]

Is it negative to say that William Karlsson wasn't going to score 43 goals again? It's the same thing. His 5v5 production has been bad. There's really no way to debate that. He's not scoring 5v5 and they've been getting shelled with him on the ice. His PP production has been great. His PP production has been 2-3x better than any dman has done over the last several years and surely is not going to continue.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

He's on pace for almost 60 points, obviously he likely not going to hit that, but his offensive numbers to start the season are fantastic. Yes his defense is lacking a bit but it's still passable, especially for a rookie. Right now hes playing as a very good top 4 dman, he improves his defense and he could turn into a very good #3 dman. I don't think he will be able to improve it enough to be a top pair dman however.

With him, ADA, Miller, Hajek, our defense could be SCARY good in a couple years.

 

[SA16]

If he remains on PP1 all year and gets 3:00/game and scores at a reasonable rate of 4 pts/60 mins that would be 12 more points on the PP.

Then if we take his career 5v5 point rate (0.71 points/60) and say he continues getting the same ice time (16:27/game) that's another 12 points.

So doing all that would get him to 38 points on the season...maybe call it 40 by throwing in some 4v4/3v3 time.