Player Discussion: Neal Pionk Part 2

[voyageur]

Agreed. The take that Pionk only plays well in contract years seems a little simplistic to me. I think the style of playing partner probably has a big impact on his play. He seems to have found a really nice groove with Samberg and just maybe this is just the start of many years of a strong 2nd pair for the Jets. 2 guys who skate well. One pushes offense, one more stay home. Also 2 guys that grew up in the same area and have known each other long before they were professional hockey players. Also agreed, Pionk's next contract will get more and more expensive if this current play continues.

It's easy to forget I guess that he led the Jets defense in scoring the first 2 years here post Buff. One of those wasn't a contract year. He's been a - defenseman one year here, and I believe that's the year he broke his foot according to Chevy.

Right now he's in line for a big payout, but I'm hoping he's the kind of guy that would leave money on the table so that his d partner gets rewarded too.

Still early but it's a lot less hostile in this thread than previous couple of years.

 

[Bob E]

If Pionk puts up career numbers, what would he be worth? $8M+ aav on a long term deal? I wouldn’t be comfortable giving him that deal with his inconsistency, slow feet and Salomonsson waiting in the wings.

And or if he doesn’t sign before the deadline do you move him? And what could you get in trade for him?

Will be an interesting few months with Ehlers, Pionk and Appleton needing new deals.

 

[Huffer]

I care less about Pionk putting up a ton of points, and more about him not being a total tire fire and liability in his own zone, which he has been more often than not in past years, and was also extremely poor in the playoffs.
He's been much better to start this season in that regard.

 

[Jet]

I care less about Pionk putting up a ton of points, and more about him not being a total tire fire and liability in his own zone, which he has been more often than not in past years, and was also extremely poor in the playoffs.
He's been much better to start this season in that regard.

Extremely poor in the playoffs? He nearly single-handedly neutralized the best player in the world in a 4 game series.

When Pionk has sucked the WHOLE TEAM has sucked. Thats coaching. Either they systems, the motivation, something is off with this team in the playoffs, and we can hope that Arniel and his associates can solve that this post season.

 

[Huffer]

Extremely poor in the playoffs? He nearly single-handedly neutralized the best player in the world in a 4 game series.

When Pionk has sucked the WHOLE TEAM has sucked. Thats coaching. Either they systems, the motivation, something is off with this team in the playoffs, and we can hope that Arniel and his associates can solve that this post season.

He was good in the Edmonton series, but has not been in the last 2 series IMO.

That shortened season was his high water mark (besides this season).

 

[Wpgpage]

I think the market has been pretty well set in this space on the low end you have Matt Roy at 5.75 and on the high end you have Theodore who just signed at 7.425. Pionk would be somewhere in-between those numbers. The dead center of that spread is 6.59 which feels very close to what the final number is going to be.

Neal's value is insanely hard to gauge you have 2 really bad seasons coming on the heels of two pretty good ones. Clearly he is capable of being a solid 3/4 guy the question is obviously consistency. The team is going to have a much better idea then the public about how much that foot Injury affected him last year so they will at least go in with that knowledge.

If they come out and sign him to 6 year deal at around 6.5 then we'll all know that they believe that he's the guy we saw earlier on in his time here and this season and that the injury played a large part in his poor performance. I wouldn't hate that deal but I also wouldn't be terribly upset if they let him walk.

 

[KingBogo]

I think the market has been pretty well set in this space on the low end you have Matt Roy at 5.75 and on the high end you have Theodore who just signed at 7.425. Pionk would be somewhere in-between those numbers. The dead center of that spread is 6.59 which feels very close to what the final number is going to be.

Neal's value is insanely hard to gauge you have 2 really bad seasons coming on the heels of two pretty good ones. Clearly he is capable of being a solid 3/4 guy the question is obviously consistency. The team is going to have a much better idea then the public about how much that foot Injury affected him last year so they will at least go in with that knowledge.

If they come out and sign him to 6 year deal at around 6.5 then we'll all know that they believe that he's the guy we saw earlier on in his time here and this season and that the injury played a large part in his poor performance. I wouldn't hate that deal but I also wouldn't be terribly upset if they let him walk.

This is a good analysis. I've been hoping for something slightly more team friendly based on some uneven play. Maybe 5 X $6M. A slight raise with decent term to the player the organization has stood by through good and bad.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Its an injury free year, not just a contract year. His foot was broken last year and off ice considerations were difficult. He's playing great.

He certainly is.
But it wasn't just last year. He has been underperforming to varying degrees every season since his last contract year. That may just be coincidental but it looks bad.

I just hope he doesn't regress too far after he gets his contract.

 

[Jet]

He certainly is.
But it wasn't just last year. He has been underperforming to varying degrees every season since his last contract year. That may just be coincidental but it looks bad.

I just hope he doesn't regress too far after he gets his contract.

This narrative just keeps getting stronger and stronger despite it being somewhat of a fallacy.

Pionk is a 2nd pair defenseman who gets almost non existent pp time with the way the Jets have deployed their pps under Maurice and Bowness.

Still he has managed 189 points over 386 games as a Jet - pretty respectable numbers for his role.

People expecting him to be a defensive stalwart is like expecting a civic to perform like a Ferrari.

But, that's the story about Pionk that's been written here and reinforced over and over so it's become hf Jets fact.

Id love for Neal and Snerg to continue to build chemistry to allow Neal to play to his strengths and have Snerg puck up the defensive slack.

 

[Jet]

I'm a fan.....the guy is hugely underappreciated here. But the " contract year" performance leaves a bit of a sour taste for me. Regardless, with 5 or 6 significant deals expiring, someone has to go and I'm guessing it's him.

Could it just be coincidental, though? Being hurt physically and emotionally last year, then healing over the offseason and coming with purpose to be better for the Jets and to win - like others like Connor have done, isn't that possible?

From what I've heard Pionk is intensely competitive and wants to win badly. It might actually hurt him defensively as he can end up being too aggressive and overplaying his hand so to speak, drawing him out of position.

I think this kind of thing can be solved by coaching. I'm not comparing him to Buff at all, but Byfuglien showed that you can change your game with the right guidance.

 

[Adam da bomb]

This narrative just keeps getting stronger and stronger despite it being somewhat of a fallacy.

Pionk is a 2nd pair defenseman who gets almost non existent pp time with the way the Jets have deployed their pps under Maurice and Bowness.

Still he has managed 189 points over 386 games as a Jet - pretty respectable numbers for his role.

People expecting him to be a defensive stalwart is like expecting a civic to perform like a Ferrari.

But, that's the story about Pionk that's been written here and reinforced over and over so it's become hf Jets fact.

Id love for Neal and Snerg to continue to build chemistry to allow Neal to play to his strengths and have Snerg puck up the defensive slack.

Hard not to have expectations a defenseman will be good in his own end. I mean a lot of other guys are putting in the effort to get there like kc.

 

[Wpgpage]

It's not like he just had one amazing year in his contract year and the rest have been terrible his first year here after the trade was actually his best year followed by another good not great year in his contract year in 20-21. Out of 5 years he's had two terrible years two good ones and one meh. This year is TBC.

I really think Snerg compliments him well and I think alot of Neal's resurgence can be attributed to having a partner who has a skill set that compliments his own. Dillion was a great soldier for this team but I don't think his skill set worked nearly as well as Snergs does.

 

[Jet]

Hard not to have expectations a defenseman will be good in his own end. I mean a lot of other guys are putting in the effort to get there like kc.

Yes because pionk is the first offensive defenseman to struggle in his own end. Just because he's weak there doesn't mean he isn't a good player that deserves positive accolades.

Also, you don't think Pionk is putting in an effort? I dint think effort or passion has ever been a Pionk problem.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

This narrative just keeps getting stronger and stronger despite it being somewhat of a fallacy.

Pionk is a 2nd pair defenseman who gets almost non existent pp time with the way the Jets have deployed their pps under Maurice and Bowness.

Still he has managed 189 points over 386 games as a Jet - pretty respectable numbers for his role.

People expecting him to be a defensive stalwart is like expecting a civic to perform like a Ferrari.

But, that's the story about Pionk that's been written here and reinforced over and over so it's become hf Jets fact.

Id love for Neal and Snerg to continue to build chemistry to allow Neal to play to his strengths and have Snerg puck up the defensive slack.

His offense has been decent, even in his worst years. But it hasn't been near enough to offset his defensive weakness in all but his best years. His scoring rate dropped off right after he signed his current contract and stayed there until this season. That is a fact.

Whether or not that was poor chemistry with his D partner is conjecture. I hope that turns out to be the case and he keeps up his good play for several years. But I am skeptical because of the contract year performance. We won't know until next year. Meantime I'm going to enjoy contract year Pionk. I'll even have to stop looking for trade destinations for him. For now.

 

[Adam da bomb]

His offense has been decent, even in his worst years. But it hasn't been near enough to offset his defensive weakness in all but his best years. His scoring rate dropped off right after he signed his current contract and stayed there until this season. That is a fact.

Whether or not that was poor chemistry with his D partner is conjecture. I hope that turns out to be the case and he keeps up his good play for several years. But I am skeptical because of the contract year performance. We won't know until next year. Meantime I'm going to enjoy contract year Pionk. I'll even have to stop looking for trade destinations for him. For now.

Although not al players pick up their players because of contract time. Ehlers is Ehlers and is pretty consistent and has been the same as last year. I am not sure if Apples is better he seems to be scoring more, but, eye test says he is the same.

 

[jetsfan15]

If Pionk puts up career numbers, what would he be worth? $8M+ aav on a long term deal? I wouldn’t be comfortable giving him that deal with his inconsistency, slow feet and Salomonsson waiting in the wings.

And or if he doesn’t sign before the deadline do you move him? And what could you get in trade for him?

Will be an interesting few months with Ehlers, Pionk and Appleton needing new deals.

If he keeps producing and the team is winning at the deadline, I don’t see why a team in “buy mode” would want to sell an asset producing like this regardless of whether he hasn’t signed an extension. If we trade him, then we’d need to fill that hole by giving up something similar to what we received for a different rental - and there is always uncertainty with a rental re: the fit (see Toffoli last year as an example), whereas you would already know how well he fits already with Samberg with proven fairly large sample size by the time March comes around. I don’t know if the jets plan to keep him beyond this year, that’ll depend on the dollars I guess, but for this season I don’t see much reason to trade him at the deadline unless the jets are suddenly on the outside looking in playoffs wise (which seems unlikely given the 9-1 start…).

I have similar thoughts regarding Ehlers. I don’t know what the plan is beyond this year. We have a fairly deep forward prospects group (I think it’s a better pool than most think, and certainly better than our D prospect pool). But if those younger players in the AHL and/or juniors aren’t ready this year (but for maybe lambert, they aren’t), and you’re a winning team at the deadline: you keep Ehlers this year. I think you also keep Appleton if you’re winning, but he likely walks in free agency because cheaper younger players are likely available in our prospect pool that can play NHL minutes next year to fill the void.

 

[WolfHouse]

Jets overpaid pionk based on his last contract season and i think they overpay again... aside from rhd and his offence i think theres a strong motivator to show we didnt lose the trouba trade - hopefully he keeps up his play

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Although not al players pick up their players because of contract time. Ehlers is Ehlers and is pretty consistent and has been the same as last year. I am not sure if Apples is better he seems to be scoring more, but, eye test says he is the same.

Its common enough in the NHL to have become a part of the lore. Of course that doesn't make it real. It just happens often enough to be perceived as real.

 

[Buffdog]

Its common enough in the NHL to have become a part of the lore. Of course that doesn't make it real. It just happens often enough to be perceived as real.

The weird part with Pionk is that when I watch him and he's not playing well, it isn't an effort thing. He just seems to make bad, bonehead reads both with and without the puck that end catastrophically. I don't think he's trying any harder this season vs last, but he's just playing better

So I'm not sure if a player can just say "I'm just going to be better this year since it's a contract year" like they can say "I'm going to try harder because it's a contract year"

Anything is possible though

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

The weird part with Pionk is that when I watch him and he's not playing well, it isn't an effort thing. He just seems to make bad, bonehead reads both with and without the puck that end catastrophically. I don't think he's trying any harder this season vs last, but he's just playing better

So I'm not sure if a player can just say "I'm just going to be better this year since it's a contract year" like they can say "I'm going to try harder because it's a contract year"

Anything is possible though

For many years I resisted the (would it be a meme? a trope?) idea that players stepped up in their contract years. After all, shouldn't they be extremely highly motivated without that? But acceptance of the idea crept in slowly as I witnessed more and more career seasons in contract years. I'm still not fully behind the idea but it happens pretty often.

I suspect it isn't even a conscious decision. It is just that the extra motivation exists.

 

[Buffdog]

For many years I resisted the (would it be a meme? a trope?) idea that players stepped up in their contract years. After all, shouldn't they be extremely highly motivated without that? But acceptance of the idea crept in slowly as I witnessed more and more career seasons in contract years. I'm still not fully behind the idea but it happens pretty often.

I suspect it isn't even a conscious decision. It is just that the extra motivation exists.

Some guys are definitely more driven by money. I was told a story by a guy who witnessed it first hand where Alexi Semin asked the locker room how much more money they got if they won the cup and when he was told, he said something along the lines of "well that doesn't seem like it's worth it for that amount"

Edit: sorry it was 2nd hand, but reliable source

 

[KingBogo]

The weird part with Pionk is that when I watch him and he's not playing well, it isn't an effort thing. He just seems to make bad, bonehead reads both with and without the puck that end catastrophically. I don't think he's trying any harder this season vs last, but he's just playing better

So I'm not sure if a player can just say "I'm just going to be better this year since it's a contract year" like they can say "I'm going to try harder because it's a contract year"

Anything is possible though

Agreed about the contract year thing. Way too much goes into being a professional athlete and maintaining that every day to think it comes down to contract status.

 

[KingBogo]

For many years I resisted the (would it be a meme? a trope?) idea that players stepped up in their contract years. After all, shouldn't they be extremely highly motivated without that? But acceptance of the idea crept in slowly as I witnessed more and more career seasons in contract years. I'm still not fully behind the idea but it happens pretty often.

I suspect it isn't even a conscious decision. It is just that the extra motivation exists.

But until actually proven this much more likely can be attributed to selective attention bias than actual fact.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Its common enough in the NHL to have become a part of the lore. Of course that doesn't make it real. It just happens often enough to be perceived as real.

I think there is something to it. I mean you can’t be on all the time, but, contract years family life and commitments takes a step back to watch more video to play better.
No one can do it all the time or they’d burn out or upset the missis, but, once every 3/4 years.

Some guys are definitely more driven by money. I was told a story by a guy who witnessed it first hand where Alexi Semin asked the locker room how much more money they got if they won the cup and when he was told, he said something along the lines of "well that doesn't seem like it's worth it for that amount"

Edit: sorry it was 2nd hand, but reliable source

I also heard the story how oilers were losing and the owner offered Gretzky a car if they came back so he got 5 in the third.