NCAA Hockey Expansion Thread

[sigx15]

I played hockey there when I was in Junior High and High School...that place isn't ready for prime time D1 Hockey.

Of course not but neither was Waltham for Bentley or Oceanside for ASU or St Thomas Arena or Olympia for AIC. Teams have played in a lot of crappy rinks when they make the jump to D1, it happens all the time. Most programs don't start like Penn State did. It's already been said an alum will make a big donation to fund a rink if Stonehill can get in a league. I don't get why people seem concerned about this

 

[mk80]

In the NCAA DIII world, the Massachusetts College of Liberal Arts men's program is returning in 23-24, and adding a women's team to go with it.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

In the NCAA DIII world, the Massachusetts College of Liberal Arts men's program is returning in 23-24, and adding a women's team to go with it.

This was rumored to be in the making for a while. Like many schools, declining enrollment saw MCLA build their student base back up around athletics. It was a huge turnaround after they were considering cutting athletics altogether due to a liberal arts school not needing athletics in addition to academic experiences. Fortunately new personnel came together and put an end to that.

MCLA had a fairly program in the 90s before increasing costs had the athletic department cut the team in the early 2000s. Funnily enough it remains the most successful program in the history their athletics department by a embarrassingly significant margin, not just because they cut it but the margin is still huge despite not having existed for close to 20 years. MCLA is a member of the MASCAC, so they have a conference to play in automatically. This addition leaves only Bridgewater State and Mass Maritime as the sole MASCAC members without varsity hockey.

I can't imagine they would play anywhere but in town at the Vietnam Veteran's Rink 5 minutes away. It is one of the dozens of cookie cutter DCR rinks that is small but serviceable. I know of Anna Maria and UMass-Dartmouth that play in those cookie cutter rinks as well. They also will need to put in a lot of money because those have four small locker rooms and that is it, will likely need to add extensions to the building.

 

[JMCx4]

... I can't imagine they would play anywhere but in town at the Vietnam Veteran's Rink 5 minutes away. It is one of the dozens of cookie cutter DCR rinks that is small but serviceable. I know of Anna Maria and UMass-Dartmouth that play in those cookie cutter rinks as well. They also will need to put in a lot of money because those have four small locker rooms and that is it, will likely need to add extensions to the building.

OR ... A couple of prefab structures alongside the arena, with ice skate-friendly paths to & from the main building. If it was good enough for Mystery, Alaska, it should be good enough for MCLA DIII.

 

[Slowe]

UAH reminding everyone they’re on life support but not dead yet.

Alabama Huntsville 'locked and loaded' to return but needs a conference

 

[JMCx4]

UAH reminding everyone they’re on life support but not dead yet.

Alabama Huntsville 'locked and loaded' to return but needs a conference

"It's all we need, a conference," Sheldon Wolitski said. "We're funded. We're locked and loaded, ready to go. If a new conference forms, we'll be submitting our application to get reinstated."

Sounds like a kid whose parents bought him new skates & a jersey & a puck & a stick, and he's standing on the banks of a pond @ 5 o'clock on a foggy April morning waiting for a game to break out.

 

[mk80]

Looks like it's not in the cards officially for Illinois

Illinois Athletics Discontinues Exploration of Men’s Ice Hockey - University of Illinois Athletics

The University of Illinois Division of Intercollegiate Athletics has concluded its exploration of Division I men's ice hockey and, barring an unforeseen change,

fightingillini.com

 

[S E P H]

Yeah the arena costs is probably the main sticking point and I don't blame them.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Yeah, what a load.

 

[JMCx4]

Yeah the arena costs is probably the main sticking point and I don't blame them.

And why do you think that?

 

[S E P H]

And why do you think that?

IMHO, every Big Ten school is rich enough to fund a hockey team at a scholarship standpoint.

 

[JMCx4]

IMHO, every Big Ten school is rich enough to fund a hockey team at a scholarship standpoint.

Refer to the DA's "incredibly fluid, dynamic environment" comment. It's not just one dominant condition that led to the decision.

 

[S E P H]

Refer to the DA's "incredibly fluid, dynamic environment" comment. It's not just one dominant condition that led to the decision.

There's always multiple reasons not to build a skyscraper ranging from shear costs to construction to manual labour to safety relegations to bureaucracy to follow and everything else in-between, but sometimes companies do.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

IMHO, every Big Ten school is rich enough to fund a hockey team at a scholarship standpoint.

That is stating the obvious. The average Big 10 spend on scholarships is $600k-$850k. But you also state exactly nothing since there is millions of dollars per year in financial requirements outside of scholarships. And that is before one takes into account Title IX requirements. And that is if you don't plan to play in any kind of an arena.

 

[mk80]

Essentially the AD's comments do leave open the possibility of if Illinois was to receive a single huge donation like Penn State, or ASU did from an alumnus, or a group of alumni and/or business leaders with cash to burn. But the statement makes clear the athletic department and school will not foot the bill for startup costs. I guess in this case there's maybe an outside chance if the city of Champaign ever builds a suitable arena on their own thus negating a huge portion of startup costs for the school, since the statement specifically talks about the inflated arena cost projections.

Edit: Although now that I think more about my thought on an arena being dropped in their lap, a school with the stature of Illinois could likely be allowed to use their current on campus facility with some slight upgrades in the program's infancy similar to ASU playing out of Oceanside until this coming season. So for the Illini I would bet it hinges less on the arena issue and more on the program startup costs overall.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

I love the Pond, but it’s not remotely suitable for a varsity program or with the intention of making as much money as possible no matter what they do with it. And there’s zero chance either Champaign or Urbana foot the bill for an arena, so it’s obvious that they‘re waiting for Jimmy John or some other alumnus to fork over a hundred million bucks or slightly less. I also don’t remotely buy that Covid killed their chances, as there’s zero chance that they went from the finish line back to the starting line financially.

 

[SemireliableSource]

IMHO, every Big Ten school is rich enough to fund a hockey team at a scholarship standpoint.

Theoretically, yeah. However, Rutgers is still playing catchup financially as they still aren't receiving the full payout from the league's media contracts. Also, their athletic department is super messy. It's not just about having money.

 

[psavitt]

Augustana joining the CCHA when they start their men's hockey program in 2023

CCHA grants membership to Augustana University

CCHA grants membership to Augustana University

ccha.com

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Only logical fit, and only chance for them to have been economically viable.

 

[mk80]

Augustana provides another close conference opponent for Bemidji, MNSU, and St. Thomas.

 

[S E P H]

With Growing Number of Independents, New Conference Talks Heat Up

But it's a tangled web, full of hope and frustration.

www.collegehockeynews.com

Some tidbits in there about potential moves...

- All the soon-to-be DI schools have listed the help of retiring Atlantic Hockey commissioner Bob DeGregorio to find them a conference.

- Lindenwood is not getting any good signs from CCHA about potentially joining them as they already agreed with Augustana.

- St. Anselm will only go DI if they're able to find a conference to join. They are currently in the same conference with Stonehill, but with Stonehill leaving and going DI, they too are also looking for a conference.

- Utica is awaiting word from Atlantic Hockey and so far the coaches don't really want them, but they're hoping for a change of heart from the presidents and others. Hockey is their major sport, but have no desire of it going DII due to no conference, in which the rest of their athletics are upgrading towards.

- There's talk that all these secondary schools want to join Atlantic Hockey, that it might just split in two.

- Arizona State still looking at Big 10 and NCHC for a conference since they now have a brand new beautiful arena.

 

[mk80]

If/When St. Anselm makes a move, there's a conversation to be had about what happens to the last remaining "DII" programs. Stonehill and St. Anslem gone, would leave 5 remaining teams in the Northeast 10.

 

[misterchainsaw]

With Growing Number of Independents, New Conference Talks Heat Up

But it's a tangled web, full of hope and frustration.

www.collegehockeynews.com

Some tidbits in there about potential moves...

- All the soon-to-be DI schools have listed the help of retiring Atlantic Hockey commissioner Bob DeGregorio to find them a conference.

- Lindenwood is not getting any good signs from CCHA about potentially joining them as they already agreed with Augustana.

- St. Anselm will only go DI if they're able to find a conference to join. They are currently in the same conference with Stonehill, but with Stonehill leaving and going DI, they too are also looking for a conference.

- Utica is awaiting word from Atlantic Hockey and so far the coaches don't really want them, but they're hoping for a change of heart from the presidents and others. Hockey is their major sport, but have no desire of it going DII due to no conference, in which the rest of their athletics are upgrading towards.

- There's talk that all these secondary schools want to join Atlantic Hockey, that it might just split in two.

- Arizona State still looking at Big 10 and NCHC for a conference since they now have a brand new beautiful arena.

I wonder if Atlantic Hockey is just playing hard to get until Robert Morris comes back in the 2023-24 season - I have to think coaches would prefer 12 teams to 11, but maybe I'm wrong

At some point though, if you're talking about more than 1 school, it's gonna have to split. It makes no sense to have a 14 or 16 team league when you can go to 2 leagues of 7 or 8 and get an extra NCAA birth for those teams. And it feels like something like Utica, RIT, Niagara, Canisius, Army, Air Force, Mercyhurst, and Robert Morris would be a pretty decent fit as an 8 team league (well, Air Force doesn't really fit in anywhere, but sticking with the other service academy is why they're in the AHA to begin with). The longest drive in that group is 6 hours (Army to the PA schools and Utica to RoMo) and you could pretty easily split road weekends among MH, RIT, and the Buffalo schools

 

[S E P H]

I wonder if Atlantic Hockey is just playing hard to get until Robert Morris comes back in the 2023-24 season - I have to think coaches would prefer 12 teams to 11, but maybe I'm wrong

At some point though, if you're talking about more than 1 school, it's gonna have to split. It makes no sense to have a 14 or 16 team league when you can go to 2 leagues of 7 or 8 and get an extra NCAA birth for those teams.

Yeah, if all these colleges want to join but will only join if they have a conference, it's getting to the point that there will be enough teams to actually start a damn new conference. Alabama-Huntsville, Lindenwood, Utica, St. Anselm, Stonehill, and LIU right there already makes six. Now I highly doubt that Utica will want to be in the same conference as Alabama and Lindenwood, but the latter four teams can absolutely start one themselves in the Northeast and require just three to four more other schools to eventually join in the future.

 

[misterchainsaw]

Yeah, if all these colleges want to join but will only join if they have a conference, it's getting to the point that there will be enough teams to actually start a damn new conference. Alabama-Huntsville, Lindenwood, Utica, St. Anselm, Stonehill, and LIU right there already makes six. Now I highly doubt that Utica will want to be in the same conference as Alabama and Lindenwood, but the latter four teams can absolutely start one themselves in the Northeast and require just three to four more other schools to eventually join in the future.

Honestly, LIU, Stonehill, and St. Anselm fit pretty well with the other half of the AHA too. It'd be a New England (plus Long Island) league: Those three, AIC, Sacred Heart, Bentley, and Holy Cross create a pretty contained "other half" of the old AHA.

I feel like the NCAA community would balk at giving an automatic bid to a brand new conference that's just 4 expansion teams - there's already so few at large teams getting in. The two conferences of 7-8 seems much more feasible...but obviously the AHA has to be willing to change for that to happen.

It's definitely hard to find a place for Lindenwood and UAH (and Arizona State, for that matter).

EDIT: It's also interesting that RIT, RoMo, and Mercyhurst share a conference with Lindenwood in women's hockey, so maybe you could stick Army/Air Force in the New England/Downstate NY half of the conference and add Lindenwood (and maybe even Huntsville?) into the the more Mid-Atlantic half and get 8 teams each. It's definitely going to be interesting to see how this all plays out.