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NCAA Hockey Expansion Thread

misterchainsaw said:
Honestly, LIU, Stonehill, and St. Anselm fit pretty well with the other half of the AHA too. It'd be a New England (plus Long Island) league: Those three, AIC, Sacred Heart, Bentley, and Holy Cross create a pretty contained "other half" of the old AHA.

I feel like the NCAA community would balk at giving an automatic bid to a brand new conference that's just 4 expansion teams - there's already so few at large teams getting in. The two conferences of 7-8 seems much more feasible...but obviously the AHA has to be willing to change for that to happen.

It's definitely hard to find a place for Lindenwood and UAH (and Arizona State, for that matter).
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I think ASU with their new rink will eventually find a spot somewhere, too big of a school to stay independent for that long.

It is also getting to the point that if all these schools are going to join, the tournament needs to be expanded. 16 teams in a field of 60 is crazy, but I don't think expanding it to 32 solves the problem. I would like to see the higher seeds get a bye week and introduce more "wildcard" games. You're right that Penn States/Duluth/St. Clouds' of college hockey would be absolutely furious if a new conference with all these new expansion secondary universities will be given another automatic bid to the tournament.
 
misterchainsaw said:
Honestly, LIU, Stonehill, and St. Anselm fit pretty well with the other half of the AHA too. It'd be a New England (plus Long Island) league: Those three, AIC, Sacred Heart, Bentley, and Holy Cross create a pretty contained "other half" of the old AHA.

I feel like the NCAA community would balk at giving an automatic bid to a brand new conference that's just 4 expansion teams - there's already so few at large teams getting in. The two conferences of 7-8 seems much more feasible...but obviously the AHA has to be willing to change for that to happen.

It's definitely hard to find a place for Lindenwood and UAH (and Arizona State, for that matter).

EDIT: It's also interesting that RIT, RoMo, and Mercyhurst share a conference with Lindenwood in women's hockey, so maybe you could stick Army/Air Force in the New England/Downstate NY half of the conference and add Lindenwood (and maybe even Huntsville?) into the the more Mid-Atlantic half and get 8 teams each. It's definitely going to be interesting to see how this all plays out.
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Agree re: a New England/LI conference from the eastern half of AHA.

The NCAA won't give an autobid to a conference with fewer than six teams. Period. End of story.

If schools want to add hockey and be successful, they need to think a little harder before just rubber stamping a program without having any kind of plan.
 
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Interestingly, AIC and Bentley are NE10 schools in other sports playing up... The NE10 should just sponsor DI men's hockey or NE10 schools create a DI men's conference kind of like Missouri Valley Conference has the Missouri Valley Football Conference: AIC and Bentley move from AHA to NE10 Hockey Conference + Stonehill and St. Anselm and that's already four of six needed for an auotbid. Utica joining D2 would be a good main NE10 conference fit so add them for 5 then either add another current NE10 school who decides to join the momentum like SNHU or add LIU as a hockey affiliate. Bentley and AIC leaving AHA would open spots for Lindenwood and Huntsville in AHA.
 
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S E P H said:
I think ASU with their new rink will eventually find a spot somewhere, too big of a school to stay independent for that long.

It is also getting to the point that if all these schools are going to join, the tournament needs to be expanded. 16 teams in a field of 60 is crazy, but I don't think expanding it to 32 solves the problem. I would like to see the higher seeds get a bye week and introduce more "wildcard" games. You're right that Penn States/Duluth/St. Clouds' of college hockey would be absolutely furious if a new conference with all these new expansion secondary universities will be given another automatic bid to the tournament.
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I wouldn't count on it. I believe the NCAA benchmark is 1 team for every 4 or 5 in a sport. Hockey actually puts more teams in the tournament on a percentage basis than almost any other team sport. Here's other team sports:

Basketball: 68 spots for 353 teams (19.2%)
M Lacrosse: 18 spots for 73 teams (24.6%)
W Lacrosse: 29 spots for 120 teams (24.1%)
M Volleyball: 7 spots for 48 teams (14.6%) (hard to find info on teams eligible for the D1 tourney here, since a lot of D2 schools play up)
W Volleyball: 64 spots for 334 teams (19.2%)
M Soccer: 48 spots for 205 teams (23.4%)
Softball: 64 spots for 333 teams (19.2%)

Hockey, of course was 16 of 60 last year (26.7%), so I'd think they'd have to get up to at least 70 schools before they'd move off of a round number like 16. I believe the new batch of schools only would make 65, which includes Utica and St. Anselem, neither of whom have confirmed yet AFAIK.
 
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misterchainsaw said:
I wouldn't count on it. I believe the NCAA benchmark is 1 team for every 4 or 5 in a sport. Hockey actually puts more teams in the tournament on a percentage basis than almost any other team sport. Here's other team sports:

Basketball: 68 spots for 353 teams (19.2%)
M Lacrosse: 18 spots for 73 teams (24.6%)
W Lacrosse: 29 spots for 120 teams (24.1%)
M Volleyball: 7 spots for 48 teams (14.6%) (hard to find info on teams eligible for the D1 tourney here, since a lot of D2 schools play up)
W Volleyball: 64 spots for 334 teams (19.2%)
M Soccer: 48 spots for 205 teams (23.4%)
Softball: 64 spots for 333 teams (19.2%)

Hockey, of course was 16 of 60 last year (26.7%), so I'd think they'd have to get up to at least 70 schools before they'd move off of a round number like 16. I believe the new batch of schools only would make 65, which includes Utica and St. Anselem, neither of whom have confirmed yet AFAIK.
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This is correct. It took the NCAA years to go from 12 to 16 teams in the Men's tournament, and when they expanded the tournament there were more Division I teams than there are now.

Right now, the NCAA Hockey Tournament doesn't make much money (if any) in the first two rounds. Look at the video from the past six or seven years - excluding covid, most region games are half-full or less. It's not until the Frozen Four that you start seeing big crowds.

The Polish WHL Scout thinks "that Penn States/Duluth/St. Clouds' of college hockey would be absolutely furious if a new conference with all these new expansion secondary universities will be given another automatic bid to the tournament." They're not. The bigger schools from the power conferences are far more likely to get at large bids to the tournament than the schools that don't get the autobid out of any new conference. Does it reduce the number of at large bids available? Yes. Does it help grow the game? Yes. Would traditional Division I powers be furious about it? Doubtful. And they're not "secondary universities," whatever the F that means. Keep looking down your nose at them from across the ocean - you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about when it comes to college sports and college hockey.
 
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Yeah, I'm not seeing an expansion to the playoff format any time soon, either. I think it'd take some seismic shift to make that happen, like a bunch of Pacific schools banding together to jump up to the varsity level all at once.

In other words, not likely.
 
The only playoff format change that has a possibility of happening in the next few years, would be moving away from neutral site regionals to campus sites for higher seeds. But an expansion of the number teams is out of the question for now.
 
mk80 said:
The only playoff format change that has a possibility of happening in the next few years, would be moving away from neutral site regionals to campus sites for higher seeds. But an expansion of the number teams is out of the question for now.
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Campus sites for higher seeds will be announced when the regional sites that have already been announced have been exhausted, or shortly before.
 
With recent reports that USC and UCLA might be joining the Big Ten....

I swear, I'll be mighty annoyed if either of them make varsity hockey programs before the Illini....
 
No Fun Shogun said:
With recent reports that USC and UCLA might be joining the Big Ten....

I swear, I'll be mighty annoyed if either of them make varsity hockey programs before the Illini....
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I think them beating Illinois to D1 hockey is safe for the foreseeable future, there has not been an indication of the schools adding hockey with their move to the Big Ten and I don't think they are prepared to do so in the coming years.
 
Making a separate post for this. I think we've reached another good point for a recap on the status of all the expansion candidates and recent discussion in the thread:

Most Likely/Imminent:
Utica: Moving to D2 for their athletics department, and subsequently play up in hockey for both men's and women's, looking for a conference. Sources Local Radio & CHN
St Anselm: NE-10 member looking to elevate it's hockey program to D1 upon finding a conference. Source

Possible/rumored:
Tennessee State: Nashville Predators sponsored a feasibility study for the school. Source
Navy: They were mentioned by CHN coming out of the pandemic as being close to adding a team but were set back by Covid. Who knows with government how they play out.
NE-10 Schools: Losing Stonehill and St. Anselm if they go, starts to question the viability of the only D2 hockey schools path forward. As is they mostly play against themselves and D3 schools, but would they get to a point where they declare themselves as D1 hockey schools like CHN suggests Here.
Alabama Huntsville: Technically the Chargers are still on hiatus, and thus a team that can return. Do they ever find a conference in all the shuffling going on to ice a team again as conditioned by the school?

Rumored/Not Likely/Confirmed Not Happening
Illinois: Officially discontinued it's efforts to add hockey in May. The AD's statement left an open door for the future, but likely out barring a massive donation from someone like what happened with ASU or Penn State. Athletics Department Statement
UNLV: I guess we can put UNLV here, the ACHA team talks a big game about going NCAA D1 and have scheduled exhibition games with Denver, and UAA this coming season. UNLV's athletic department has shut it down with statements and discussions with the team such as in this 2019 article

New/revived Teams for 2022-23 Season
Lindenwood: After much discussion, and a move to D1 for the athletic department the school put a rubber stamp on the addition of D1 hockey in March and they will play as an independent for now. Official Announcement
Alaska Anchorage: The Seawolves return to the ice after a fundraising campaign to save the program, the team was officially reinstated in the fall of 2021. They will play as an independent this year. Official Announcement
Stonehill: The Skyhawks have elevated their entire athletic department to D1 including hockey. They will play as an independent this season. Official Announcement

New/Returning in 23-24
Augustana: A gift from Denny Sanford led to the creation of the Vikings hockey program, and construction of an arena. Augustana will take the ice in fall of 2023 Men's Hockey
Robert Morris: After the abrupt cancelation of their hockey program in 2021, a subsequent campaign to save the program ensued, the university president exited stage left, and the hockey program returns to the ice in fall of 2023. Both the CHA and Atlantic Hockey have already accepted the returning Colonials into their former conferences. Men's Ice Hockey
 
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mk80 said:
Making a separate post for this. I think we've reached another good point for a recap on the status of all the expansion candidates and recent discussion in the thread:

Most Likely/Imminent:
Utica: Moving to D2 for their athletics department, and subsequently play up in hockey for both men's and women's, looking for a conference. Sources Local Radio & CHN
St Anselm: NE-10 member looking to elevate it's hockey program to D1 upon finding a conference. Source

Possible/rumored:
Tennessee State: Nashville Predators sponsored a feasibility study for the school. Source
Navy: They were mentioned by CHN coming out of the pandemic as being close to adding a team but were set back by Covid. Who knows with government how they play out.
NE-10 Schools: Losing Stonehill and St. Anselm if they go, starts to question the viability of the only D2 hockey schools path forward. As is they mostly play against themselves and D3 schools, but would they get to a point where they declare themselves as D1 hockey schools like CHN suggests Here.
Alabama Huntsville: Technically the Chargers are still on hiatus, and thus a team that can return. Do they ever find a conference in all the shuffling going on to ice a team again as conditioned by the school?

Rumored/Not Likely/Confirmed Not Happening
Illinois: Officially discontinued it's efforts to add hockey in May. The AD's statement left an open door for the future, but likely out barring a massive donation from someone like what happened with ASU or Penn State. Athletics Department Statement
UNLV: I guess we can put UNLV here, the ACHA team talks a big game about going NCAA D1 and have scheduled exhibition games with Denver, and UAA this coming season. UNLV's athletic department has shut it down with statements and discussions with the team such as in this 2019 article

New/revived Teams for 2022-23 Season
Lindenwood: After much discussion, and a move to D1 for the athletic department the school put a rubber stamp on the addition of D1 hockey in March and they will play as an independent for now. Official Announcement
Alaska Anchorage: The Seawolves return to the ice after a fundraising campaign to save the program, the team was officially reinstated in the fall of 2021. They will play as an independent this year. Official Announcement
Stonehill: The Skyhawks have elevated their entire athletic department to D1 including hockey. They will play as an independent this season. Official Announcement

New/Returning in 23-24
Augustana: A gift from Denny Sanford led to the creation of the Vikings hockey program, and construction of an arena. Augustana will take the ice in fall of 2023 Men's Hockey
Robert Morris: After the abrupt cancelation of their hockey program in 2021, a subsequently campaign to save the program ensued, the university president exited stage left, and the hockey program returns to the ice in fall of 2023. Both the CHA and Atlantic Hockey have already accepted the returning Colonials into their former conferences. Men's Ice Hockey
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Good post, but I think of your possible/rumored list, only the NE10 schools might actually happen, solely because they'll need opponents and be forced to decide between playing a D-III schedule or a D-I schedule. A D-I schedule is better for revenue and PR purposes, so the choice will be easy. Tennessee State's "exploration" is solely a PR move by the school, the Preds, and the NHL. The school doesn't have the money nor the donor base to support a program. If Navy wanted a hockey program, they'd have one. Alabama-Huntsville can't find a conference and the UofA system doesn't want the program. They've (yet again) found a way to make UAH hockey wither on the vine.
 
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CrazyEddie20 said:
Good post, but I think of your possible/rumored list, only the NE10 schools might actually happen, solely because they'll need opponents and be forced to decide between playing a D-III schedule or a D-I schedule. A D-I schedule is better for revenue and PR purposes, so the choice will be easy. Tennessee State's "exploration" is solely a PR move by the school, the Preds, and the NHL. The school doesn't have the money nor the donor base to support a program. If Navy wanted a hockey program, they'd have one. Alabama-Huntsville can't find a conference and the UofA system doesn't want the program. They've (yet again) found a way to make UAH hockey wither on the vine.
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I agree, I debated where to slot in those schools between the confirmed out/unlikely, and the possible. Ultimately, it just came down to the fact that they haven't confirmed nothing is happening so I decided to include them in the possible group. I fully agree the TSU exploration is PR based move, and that of the choices the NE10 declaring themselves as D1 would be the most likely scenario, especially as they continue to be picked off individually. Although Stonehill on the men's side at least this season will be D1 in name only, and play the same sort of schedule they've always played, so far I haven't seen them on any D1 schedule and there's not many left that haven't been released at this point. Even for their two recruits for this season, one is a D3 level guy, the other is a guy that wouldn't make the cut for any of the top ACHA teams.
 
mk80 said:
I agree, I debated where to slot in those schools between the confirmed out/unlikely, and the possible. Ultimately, it just came down to the fact that they haven't confirmed nothing is happening so I decided to include them in the possible group. I fully agree the TSU exploration is PR based move, and that of the choices the NE10 declaring themselves as D1 would be the most likely scenario, especially as they continue to be picked off individually. Although Stonehill on the men's side at least this season will be D1 in name only, and play the same sort of schedule they've always played, so far I haven't seen them on any D1 schedule and there's not many left that haven't been released at this point. Even for their two recruits for this season, one is a D3 level guy, the other is a guy that wouldn't make the cut for any of the top ACHA teams.
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Stonehill's men's and women's programs are making a wise move by having a true "transition" season rather than going all "Leroy Jenkins" into Division I. The Skyhawks women are playing several Division I opponents and I'd expect the men will too.
 
Binghamton University throwing their hat into the ring with "a study regarding the expansion of our athletics programs to include men’s ice hockey and women’s field hockey"
 
Well, that's a study, but it's a pretty vague statement. There's no campus rink, so you'd have to figure they'd be trying to book dates in the BCVMA, but at least for the time being, they'd be competing with the Fed team for dates and practice time. And they'd still need to secure funding for scholarships, salaries, etc.
 
CrazyEddie20 said:
Well, that's a study, but it's a pretty vague statement. There's no campus rink, so you'd have to figure they'd be trying to book dates in the BCVMA, but at least for the time being, they'd be competing with the Fed team for dates and practice time. And they'd still need to secure funding for scholarships, salaries, etc.
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LIU did it with minimal scholarships, salaries, facilities research, etc. They're doing just fine if you exclude their fairly poor record, high player turnover, losing to an ACHA team, attendance, and playing competitively against DII/DIII teams they are forced to schedule.

Why bother going into something prepared when you can just wing it?
 
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Barclay Donaldson said:
LIU did it with minimal scholarships, salaries, facilities research, etc. They're doing just fine if you exclude their fairly poor record, high player turnover, losing to an ACHA team, attendance, and playing competitively against DII/DIII teams they are forced to schedule.

Why bother going into something prepared when you can just wing it?
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I mean, that's what the expansionist fanboys always say, right after "the school has the money in the endowment!" and right before "we can build a team that will compete using the core of the ACHA team and getting Division I transfers!"
 
www.unionleader.com

Saint Anselm hockey eyes a higher level

CHANGES are likely coming for the Saint Anselm College men’s ice hockey program, but what those changes will look like is the subject of conversation and debate.
www.unionleader.com www.unionleader.com

Notable:

Earlier this year, DeGregorio researched the possible growth opportunities in D-I men’s ice hockey and reported his findings to 10 schools — Saint Anselm, Southern New Hampshire, Franklin Pierce, Saint Michael’s, Assumption, Post, Stonehill, Long Island University, Lindenwood and Utica.

“My recommendation to those 10 schools was, if you are serious about moving your programs forward, form a new (Division I) league and play for the next two years,” DeGregorio said. “That would be a very good thing, as far as I’m concerned, for the growth of Division I men’s ice hockey.”
 
CrazyEddie20 said:
Well, that's a study, but it's a pretty vague statement. There's no campus rink, so you'd have to figure they'd be trying to book dates in the BCVMA, but at least for the time being, they'd be competing with the Fed team for dates and practice time. And they'd still need to secure funding for scholarships, salaries, etc.
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I feel like when you have Title IX, College Hockey Director and NHL Player Development people are all in the same room with other various local officials, feels more than a study. As for booking dates, the fed lease ends with the 2023-2024 season, that gives the arena opportunity to decide who gets priority of ice in the next batch of leases. Practice would most likely be held at other rinks in the area, arena ice at this time is too pricey for non-game day practice. Fair number of folks I've chatted with about NCAA Hockey have said they'd go to that over the fed, time will tell, for now we get to hurry up and wait!
 
Regarding Binghamton, they are in the same conference as UMASS Lowell, and a handful other hockey schools. So to speculate for a moment, it could be that they see Lowell as a model for what they can do and essentially become the main hockey game in town since the AHL's departure.

Still a long way to go from a study to icing a team, but we can put them on the watchlist and see how things play out.

I have some doubts about DeGregorio's Northeast-10 plus 3 recommendation. For one I think Utica has a likely chance to be a candidate to become AHA's much discussed/rumored/speculated 12th team. And I'm not sure that all of the current Northeast-10 members have the budget/willingness to operate at the D1 level.
 
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