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OT: NBA Discussion Thread: Part IV

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All Might said:
None of those players are really exceptional talents. You can compare that with the cores of the Raptors, Suns, Celtics, Sixers, Bucks, etc and they still lag behind them considerably in pure talent.
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You really don’t know what level of talent they are though.

I feel like we’re about to enter the same “he’s not elite!” Shit that goes on the rangers board. They’ve only been doing this rebuild for like 5 mins though. They’ve sucked longer but they weren’t rebuilding.

See what we have and hope for the best in the lottery.
 
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BroadwayBlues said:
The Suns have 2 wins and the Raptors will be losing Kawhi during the summer.
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Suns have Booker and Ayton who are miles ahead of any of our youth talent not including Porzingis. Jackson is probably on par with Frank as well.

Raptors picked a guy in Anunoby who'd go top 5 in a re-draft most likely and he's way better than Frank for example. They have pretty much nailed it with quality picks in every draft the past 4 or so years. They have a much better front office than ours.

Can also add the Bulls, Markkanen is better than our U21 players that doesn't include LaVine, Dunn, etc...

East Coast Bias said:
You really don’t know what level of talent they are though.

I feel like we’re about to enter the same “he’s not elite!” **** that goes on the rangers board. They’ve only been doing this rebuild for like 5 mins though. They’ve sucked longer but they weren’t rebuilding.

See what we have and hope for the best in the lottery.
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Fair enough. I'm just gonna leave it off in that I think the fact that they gave THJ that contract in the state the roster was in should lower our expectations with this management team.
 
East Coast Bias said:
Maybe I'm grasping for straws here cause it's been the same bs for so long, but I disagree with this on young players.

Frank is a strange one. He's very up and down. But as we've discussed, his D is rock solid. He's still really young. If he can develop an outside shot and be a 3 & D guy, that'll be huge. No point in arguing the draft and selections there - it's over with.

I really like what I'm seeing in Trier. He's raw and his scoring abilities are way ahead of the rest of his game, but he's learning. he has no fear in going to the basket or taking a shot.

Mitch is a project. Some nights he looks lost, others he's confident. He's another that is so raw. This is expected.

Look at the ages of these guys -this team would be a college team years ago.

Frank - 20
Knox - 19
Mitch - 20
Trier - 22

Plus KP -23, Vonleh -23 (if he chooses to stay as a glue guy), Dotson - 24
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Even Hezonja has those nights where he reminds us that the “young Turkoglu” comp has positives as well as negatives. Could see either one of he or Vonleh earning a spot in the rotation by season’s end.
 
All Might said:
None of those players are really exceptional talents. You can compare that with the cores of the Raptors, Suns, Celtics, Sixers, Bucks, etc and they still lag behind them considerably in pure talent.
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I mean that list didn’t include KP, our lottery pick in this past draft, or our lottery pick in the up coming one...so I’d take our young core over the Suns & Raptors (unless Kawhi stays).

Frank’s D is pretty special, even if he doesn’t amount to much offensively he’s already got a great rep around the league. Mitch is a special athlete. Trier & Dot are looking like good rotation guys who can defend and chip in.

Frank | Trier
THJ | Dotson
FRP | Hezonja
Knox | Vonleh
KP | Robinson

With a 35% max slot is a pretty sweet foundation to build on unless KP’s recovery goes poorly.
 
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All Might said:
Suns have Booker and Ayton who are miles ahead of any of our youth talent not including Porzingis. Jackson is probably on par with Frank as well.

Raptors picked a guy in Anunoby who'd go top 5 in a re-draft most likely and he's way better than Frank for example. They have pretty much nailed it with quality picks in every draft the past 4 or so years. They have a much better front office than ours.

Can also add the Bulls, Markkanen is better than our U21 players that doesn't include LaVine, Dunn, etc...



Fair enough. I'm just gonna leave it off in that I think the fact that they gave THJ that contract in the state the roster was in should lower our expectations with this management team.
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That contract was signed before Perry came on board. That’s not this regime’s signing.
 
Anyone that would take Knicks group over Suns group right now is a giant homer.
 
darko said:
Anyone that would take Knicks group over Suns group right now is a giant homer.
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Or just someone who isn’t assuming KP’s injury has ruined him. Ayton & Booker are a great duo offensively; but KP can anchor an offense & a defense.

Plus our surrounding talent hasn’t been allowed to stagnate badly like most of that Phoenix youth has.
 
I'd be interested to see how Booker integrates into a more balanced offense moving forward. He's a good player, don't get me wrong - but he's basically been a volume scorer so far. He's been on terrible teams where he takes 20 shots a game. He's a career 42% shooter. Not to say he's not good but he's gonna have to make that jump from scorer on a bad team to good guard on a good team if they're going anywhere.
 
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cgf said:
Or just someone who isn’t assuming KP’s injury has ruined him. Ayton & Booker are a great duo offensively; but KP can anchor an offense & a defense.

Plus our surrounding talent hasn’t been allowed to stagnate badly like most of that Phoenix youth has.
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Most? Only 1. Josh Jackson. 2nd year blues. Porzingis will be fine but he's pretty much all they've got at the moment. Frank stagnated. Knox we haven't seen enough of. In a year or 2 I'll easily take Ayton over anything Knicks have. Phoenix needs a PG in the worst way.
 
cgf said:
No way LeBron wants KD outclassing him every night in the same uniform. If KD wants LA, he's gunna have to go to the clippers.
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KD will probably want to build his brand after his 3-peat this year.
 
darko said:
Most? Only 1. Josh Jackson. 2nd year blues. Porzingis will be fine but he's pretty much all they've got at the moment. Frank stagnated. Knox we haven't seen enough of. In a year or 2 I'll easily take Ayton over anything Knicks have. Phoenix needs a PG in the worst way.
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Only 1? Who other than Booker has progressed there before Kokoskov arrived?

Frank hasn't stagnated; he's just still not any good offensively...though he wouldn't be the first PG to struggle offensively until their mid 20's; GP, Lowry, Billups, Conley, Teague, Rozier, etc...but Frank's handle's better than it was last year, though still a work in progress; his shot is closer to dropping reliably, though on many nights it's not there for him like in his current slump; he's showing better control of the team, producing like plenty of his peers when he gets a pick to work with; and he's even better defensively than he was last year.

He's no sure thing, but he's an appealing (albeit still-developing) prospect...just like Knox / Robinson / Dotson / Trier and our FRP...who has a very strong rep around the league according to Zach Lowe, Nate Duncan, Woj, and a #s of rival execs at SL.

So yes, KP is the only sure thing we have...assuming his knee is recovering properly...but what a singular piece to build around he is and just because the other kids aren't locks doesn't mean they are locks to suck. Ayton could be a more efficient #1 option than KP some day, but if he can ever anchor a team on both ends of the court like Kristaps, I'll be surprised...and have to agree with you, but we're far from that atm :dunno:


I'm not saying our young core is lock to be great; just that KP is a great centerpiece to build around if his knee recovers, the 5 main Fiz-kids look interesting, our pick should help given how loaded this draft is with Wings, and Fiz is a coach with a great rep for development, who seems to be doing a good job of developing these kids this year.
All Might said:
KD will probably want to build his brand after his 3-peat this year.
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I prefer not to get my hopes up :sarcasm:
 
Healthy Porzingis is a better piece than Ayton.

Not sure if we'll see a healthy Porzingis though.
 
All Might said:
Healthy Porzingis is a better piece than Ayton.

Not sure if we'll see a healthy Porzingis though.
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True, but if Boogie is coming back from an achilles-f***ing-tear as good as before; then I dunno if there's any NBA-injury that modern medicine can't handle lol
 
Fizdale doesn't seem to have really installed an offense. Team is bad, gonna be bad, etc., but there's a huge lack of staggered screens, high pnr, pin downs, anything.

Also Hezjona is ridiculously terrible at everything.
 
effen said:
Fizdale doesn't seem to have really installed an offense. Team is bad, gonna be bad, etc., but there's a huge lack of staggered screens, high pnr, pin downs, anything.

Also Hezjona is ridiculously terrible at everything.
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Yeah he's clearly focused more on the defense and trying to get the kids settled in on that end before installing his full offense. I think there's some elements of what he wants to eventually do with KP in how much they're having Vonleh handling the ball on the perimeter, but in general the offense seems to have a lot less structure than the defense.

When we get Wario it's rough, but then he'll have one of those good-Turkoglu games where he's slashing to the hoop effectively, stretching the floor, and getting guys some wide open looks from 3. They're not common, but they didn't happen all that often for Hedo at that age either.
 
cgf said:
Yeah he's clearly focused more on the defense and trying to get the kids settled in on that end before installing his full offense. I think there's some elements of what he wants to eventually do with KP in how much they're having Vonleh handling the ball on the perimeter, but in general the offense seems to have a lot less structure than the defense.

When we get Wario it's rough, but then he'll have one of those good-Turkoglu games where he's slashing to the hoop effectively, stretching the floor, and getting guys some wide open looks from 3. They're not common, but they didn't happen all that often for Hedo at that age either.
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It's not doing them any favors to "focus" on D and have literally no idea how to get anyone open on like 1/3rd of posessions. Way too much of a burden on guys who clearly can't create their own shot, let alone create for others. At the very least Mudiay should be able to run a high spread PnR, it's a super basic set, but they never do. I don't get it.

Frustrating to watch ;) Help em out Fiz!
 
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