OT: NBA Discussion Thread: Part IV

[Mac n Gs]

I'd gladly keep Kanter if he were affordable moving forward. The dude is a double-double machine and absolutely loves being a New York Knick. I've liked Trier a lot too. I think he has a bit too much tunnel vision, but the tenacity and slash and dash skill has been a nice change of pace from a Knicks guard.

 

[East Coast Bias]

Rough game for Frank & Mitch but c’est la vie when starting babies. Funny, competitive, and secured the tanking win while some of the kids shined...Dot & Zo in particular.

Anyways, with Timmy’s hot start and the Wizards awful form, what would people think about adding our FRP or Knox to upgrade THJ to Beal? Could still open a max slot by moving Lee and would still have KP, Beal, Frank, Knox/FRP, Mitch, Dot, Trier, Vonleh & the room MLE as a supporting cast for any prospective big-fish FA.

Beal isn't enough of an upgrade for me. He can only score - doesn't do anything else well.

I'm not against trading THJ, but I just wouldn't want to add for an upgraded scorer.

 

[mrmovies779]

Shumpert was more promising his first two seasons (lockdown D on DWade). I don't really have hope for Frank at this point to develop a into a starter.

I see Frank being a defensive player coming off the bench soon enough myself.He doesnt do anything well enough on the offensive end to continue starting.With Trier and Dotson emerging,Frank is going to start losing minutes.Their simply isnt enough time to go around.I dont like him playing the point either-he's too careless with the ball and doesnt run the offense well enough for my liking.

 

[East Coast Bias]

Shumpert was more promising his first two seasons (lockdown D on DWade). I don't really have hope for Frank at this point to develop a into a starter.

Defensive metrics on Frank are elite. Bonkers good. I posted an article that went into depth about it a couple pages back.

His offensive needs to come along but his d is already there.

 

[cgf]

Beal isn't enough of an upgrade for me. He can only score - doesn't do anything else well.

I'm not against trading THJ, but I just wouldn't want to add for an upgraded scorer.

I really like him as a playmaker to, although he doesn’t get to utilize that part of his game as much with Wall on the court. That’s actually part of what makes the idea interesting to me, as you could share the primary ballhandling responsibilities.

The other big selling point for me being that Beal doesn’t need the ball to be effective as he’s really efficient coming off screens / catch-n-shooting. Which would make him an ideal 3rd guy if we do get lucky in FA. The spacing that we’d have with a KP, Beal & Durant / Middleton / Walker big 3 just makes my mouth water lol.

 

[cgf]

Defensive metrics on Frank are elite. Bonkers good. I posted an article that went into depth about it a couple pages back.

His offensive needs to come along but his d is already there.

Yup, Frank isn’t as showy an athlete but his intelligence and length make him more effective already than Shumpert ever was as a defender...even before Shump stopped giving a shit.

Frank’s coming off back to back bad games, but just before that we saw some of his best showings. His shot isn’t quite where it needs to be for teams to have to respect it, and that saps his confidence when he penetrates or posts a smaller guard. But the flashes of a quality offensive player are there and there’s clear progress from last year...which is all you really want from a position where countless guys struggled to shine before their 25th birthday; including a hall of famer like Chauncey Billups or one of the NBA’s current most under-rated, Mike Conley.

 

[BroadwayBlues]

They need a playmaking guard badly.

Let the tank continue.

 

[cgf]

Im not moving Knox or a 1st as part of any package to trade and upgrade Hardaway when chances are Knox will eventually be better than Hardaway and take his spot.Thats just terrible asset management,especially when that pick will be a top 10 pick.Rebuilding teams dont make moves like that-especially with their 1st round picks.I would rather trade/package Frank for an upgrade at point guard and keep our 1st.

I don’t follow. Do you mean that you think Knox will eventually surpass Beal?

Also we’re rebuilding this year, but next year we’re going to be a playoff team whether KP has to drag us there himself or if we get him some help. So we’re not your typical rebuilding team and Beal is still young enough to be part of the young core we are trying to build around Kristaps...which we would still have Frank, Knox/FRP, Mitch, Dot, Trier, a max FA-slot, and Vonleh / Hezonja (if they play well enough to bring back), with which to do so.


Also I don’t understand your asset management point, you wouldn’t want to use an asset to upgrade a sketchy contract that a month ago we were all praying could be dumped for cap space...but you would be open to using an asset to upgrade one of our premium assets; who happens to be the piece that other teams ask about being available most often?

 

[cgf]

They need a playmaking guard badly.

Let the tank continue.

But this draft is lousy for playmaking guards, and we won’t be able to tank again unless KP’s knee doesn’t recover. So we’re either going to need to trade for a playmaking guard, to sign one, or to make due with playmaking wings sharing responsibilities with our guards.

 

[BroadwayBlues]

But this draft is lousy for playmaking guards, and we won’t be able to tank again unless KP’s knee doesn’t recover. So we’re either going to need to trade for a playmaking guard, to sign one, or to make due with playmaking wings sharing responsibilities with our guards.

I was recently watching some video of Cam Reddish. Looks like he could pass/create for others. He was a PG in High School.

Too bad Greg Anthony's kid isn't coming out next year.

 

[mrmovies779]

I don’t follow. Do you mean that you think Knox will eventually surpass Beal?

Also we’re rebuilding this year, but next year we’re going to be a playoff team whether KP has to drag us there himself or if we get him some help. So we’re not your typical rebuilding team and Beal is still young enough to be part of the young core we are trying to build around Kristaps...which we would still have Frank, Knox/FRP, Mitch, Dot, Trier, a max FA-slot, and Vonleh / Hezonja (if they play well enough to bring back), with which to do so.


Also I don’t understand your asset management point, you wouldn’t want to use an asset to upgrade a sketchy contract that a month ago we were all praying could be dumped for cap space...but you would be open to using an asset to upgrade one of our premium assets; who happens to be the piece that other teams ask about being available most often?

I wouldnt package either Knox or Hardaway and a 1st for Beal.He isnt worth that much.Knox has a chance to be better than both in the future too.Thats poor asset management to me.Once Lee comes back he will be moved for cap relief.

 

[cgf]

I see Frank being a defensive player coming off the bench soon enough myself.He doesnt do anything well enough on the offensive end to continue starting.With Trier and Dotson emerging,Frank is going to start losing minutes.Their simply isnt enough time to go around.I dont like him playing the point either-he's too careless with the ball and doesnt run the offense well enough for my liking.

Frank's actually pretty damn effective when he has a screen to work with, that shot just needs to become reliable enough to force guys to try and fight over screens and for Frank's confidence to grow.

Give it time, Rozier, Conley, Billups, Gary Payton, the list of PGs who were offensive negatives their first few years before everything came together, is really long.

I was recently watching some video of Cam Reddish. Looks like he could pass/create for others. He was a PG in High School.

Too bad Greg Anthony's kid isn't coming out next year.

Oh I think all 3 duke wings are very under-rated playmakers, but they're all playmaking wings, not guards.

And yeah, I'm still shocked Cole Anthony didn't re-classify; he'd have been a lock to be the top guard and a top 5 pick.

 

[cgf]

I wouldnt package either Knox or Hardaway and a 1st for Beal.He isnt worth that much.Knox has a chance to be better than both in the future too.Thats poor asset management to me.Once Lee comes back he will be moved for cap relief.

I wasn't suggesting Knox / Hardaway + that pick, but Knox / that pick + Hardaway. Basically using one of those premium assets to turn THJ's contract into a premium asset.

 

[mrmovies779]

I wasn't suggesting Knox / Hardaway + that pick, but Knox / that pick + Hardaway. Basically using one of those premium assets to turn THJ's contract into a premium asset.

i still wouldnt do it.its overpaying on our part and Beal isnt that much of an improvement over Hardaway.

 

[cgf]

i still wouldnt do it.its overpaying on our part and Beal isnt that much of an improvement over Hardaway.

fair enough, guess we just don't view Beal the same. To me, he's a significant upgrade over Timmy & well worth adding a lottery pick or Knox to THJ to snag.

I think he'd really shine starting next to Frank & getting to initiate more of the offense than he does for the Wiz...and lord knows we could use more knockdown snipers given how many guys on our team other than KP, Lee & Dot are rhythm shooters.


PS Lee would get moved for cap space either way; whether to re-open a max slot following this proposed trade, or to give us some wiggle room on top of that max slot with which to bring some dudes back. Moving forward with something like:

Ntilikina | Trier
Beal | Dotson
Knox or FRP | Hezonja
Porzingis | Thomas
Robinson | Vonleh

+ max FA slot to push Mitch or Kev/FRP down to the 2nd unit

 

[Ratelleitlikeitis]

I have Kanter in fantasy. He absolutely beasted last night ( okay it was the Bulls). Why some guys don't like him, I'm not sure. Fiz apparently needs to keep him pissed off.

 

[cgf]

I have Kanter in fantasy. He absolutely beasted last night ( okay it was the Bulls). Why some guys don't like him, I'm not sure. Fiz apparently needs to keep him pissed off.

Same reason Burke annoys folks. Atrocious defense, takes away minutes/touches from younger players, and has an out-dated offensive game that doesn't really fit where Fiz wants to take this team. I don't complain since they're both perfectly fine tank commanders, but a big part of that is knowing they aren't for long on this team.

...granted, it's hard not to like Enes as a character, even if I don't think the player helps us much moving forward.

 

[East Coast Bias]

I like Kanter, but he's a better fantasy player than actual player. His rebounding is great, but he's not a good defender.

And if they move this team to spread out, he's not a fit. He's more of a 90s/early 2000s center than modern.

 

[GordonGecko]

The Rangers would playing Kanter 20 minutes a night and Quinn would be talking about building a winner.

but tell us how you really feel about Quinn

 

[Ratelleitlikeitis]

I like Kanter, but he's a better fantasy player than actual player. His rebounding is great, but he's not a good defender.

And if they move this team to spread out, he's not a fit. He's more of a 90s/early 2000s center than modern.

Interesting how the Raptors have made JV a fit. He is a solid FT shooter, has added a three point shot and is now coming from the bench...without complaint. Is he that much better than Kanter?

 

[cgf]

Interesting how the Raptors have made JV a fit. He is a solid FT shooter, has added a three point shot and is now coming from the bench...without complaint. Is he that much better than Kanter?

If that 3 was falling better and he was content coming off the bench, I think he could do work for a good team, but we're not a good team and Enes isn't meeting the first two conditions either.

 

[East Coast Bias]

Interesting how the Raptors have made JV a fit. He is a solid FT shooter, has added a three point shot and is now coming from the bench...without complaint. Is he that much better than Kanter?

Agreed with much of what cgf said.

I’m not saying you can’t win with Kanter at all. But he’s not gonna be your inside guy for 30+ mins. And i wouldn’t pay him a big contract next.

He’s fine against a lot of teams. But on teams that play smaller or have a big guy that can shoot and stretch the floor, he’s gotta come out.

 

[RangerBoy]

The Knicks coach has a better handle on rebuilding.

Who are the Rangers growing with when the team is made up of mostly veteran players? Some are younger vets but they aren’t kids either. A handful of these players will be around when the kids start coming into the NHL.

Every point they get takes them further away from getting a top player in the draft.

The Knicks schedule is brutal. They are 3-8. They could end 5-15 after 20 games.

That’s the best thing for their organization.

 

[JimmyG89]

The NBA is nothing like the NHL.

That team that was rebuilding was sporting this roster in 2016. 1 player under the age of 23 that season played a full year and is still on that roster. Morgan Rielly. Matthews was not drafted. Marner in the OHL. Nylander and Kapanen back and forth to the AHL. Same with Sparks.

Guess Babcock was clueless.

The NBA is a developmental league in itself. There is no other place to go. The G-League is in it's infancy. Europe can work, but US born players don't go there. NCAA is a one and done league for the upper echelon. Also, once you're drafted, you're playing in the NBA or the G-League (and the odd Euro holdover).

The NHL has the AHL, CHL, NCAA, Euro leagues, plus the KHL. All of the leagues have prospects in them. NCAA players in the NHL typically stay for 2-3 years. NHL drafted players don't jump into the league. Maybe 4-5 guys go to the NHL in their D+1 year. The NBA is basically EVERY player.

You don't develop players at the NHL level. You develop players at the NBA level for now.

 

[Machinehead]

The NBA is nothing like the NHL.

That team that was rebuilding was sporting this roster in 2016. 1 player under the age of 23 that season played a full year and is still on that roster. Morgan Rielly. Matthews was not drafted. Marner in the OHL. Nylander and Kapanen back and forth to the AHL. Same with Sparks.

Guess Babcock was clueless.

The NBA is a developmental league in itself. There is no other place to go. The G-League is in it's infancy. Europe can work, but US born players don't go there. NCAA is a one and done league for the upper echelon. Also, once you're drafted, you're playing in the NBA or the G-League (and the odd Euro holdover).

The NHL has the AHL, CHL, NCAA, Euro leagues, plus the KHL. All of the leagues have prospects in them. NCAA players in the NHL typically stay for 2-3 years. NHL drafted players don't jump into the league. Maybe 4-5 guys go to the NHL in their D+1 year. The NBA is basically EVERY player.

You don't develop players at the NHL level. You develop players at the NBA level for now.

Don't ruin his day, he's trying to enjoy watching his teams lose.