Nazem Kadri - Part 3

[Diatomic]

You're being a bit misleading here. Marleau entered the NHL full time as an 18 year old. By the time he was Kadri's age he was on his fourth 20+ goal season, with a 28g/57p stat line that year.

I think Kadri still has huge upside that he hasn't reached and that he's already our best center, but his development curve is a tier or two below Marleau's and I'm not sure he'll be the star 1C we've wanted since Sundin (I see him as a weak 1C or very strong 2C). But there have been teams that have won the cup without a star 1C, so I'm not too worried about it.

By the time he was kadri's age he had 300 games of NHL experience and had cemented himself as a top 6 forward, Kadri is still getting shuffled in the lineups to this day and people still insist on having him on a 3rd line center role.

Yes Marleau has 20g seasons but his overall production was not good. I'd rather take a 15g 40a 55point player than a 20g 20a 40 point player.

 

[mikebel111*]

Not only is Kadri criticised in a way that is completely divorced of logic.. they get upset when they see his spirit isn't broken and still carries his confidence around. I guess he's just too "uppity" for them.

If anyone has seen nazem, he plays his best when his confidence is high. He needs swagger which i dont mind.
I rather have someone who thinks they can be a great player, than someone who thinks they will fail

 

[Banic]

You can have swagger and think your great without talking about it. That's what separates the great All time Canadian athletes.

 

[mikebel111*]

You can have swagger and think your great without talking about it. That's what separates the great All time Canadian athletes.

When does kadri talk about it?

Its not like he said "i am amazing"

 

[Silver91]

Past 2 seasons in points.

He also hasn't been in the top 5 in goals for each of the past 6...Over the past 4 seasons cumulative he has scored the 8th most points in the league.

It was a comparison to show people that at the same age he is producing similar numbers...a very fair comparison as its intent is to show everyone that he is not a bust.

I would add that Kadri is ripped apart for his lack of production and everyone is like a school girl in love with JVR and his production yet he is only 6 pts better played two extra games with 55 total minutes more on the PP and yet Kadri is not producing.....it is laughable.

I'm not arguing that he's a bust, just that points overall doesn't tell the whole story about a player's offense. Even with less minutes, Kadri's minutes are a lot easier than Kessel and JVR's, and when he played with them all 3 of their numbers went down. Sure, Kadri can score, but comparing him to Kessel or other players who score at better paces with tougher minutes and complaining about it is skewing the numbers just as much as those who say he's a bust when he has failed to produce when given the bigger minutes.

 

[William Hylander]

Age 22

P.Kessel: 70gms, 30gls (8pp), 55pts (16pp), 19:33 (3:51pp) (82gms, 35gls (9pp), 64pts (19pp))
N.Kadri: 48gms, 18gls (5pp), 44pts (8pp), 16:03 (2:12pp) (82gms, 31gls (9pp), 75pts (14pp))

Age 23

P.Kessel: 82gms, 32gls (12pp), 64pts (23pp), 19:39 (3:45pp) (82gms, 32gls (12pp), 64pts (23pp))
N.Kadri: 51gms, 14gls (4pp), 35pts (12pp), 17:40 (2:27pp) (82gms, 23gls (6pp), 56pts (19pp))

Age 22-23

P.Kessel: 152gms, 62gls (20pp), 119pts (39pp), 19:36 (3:48pp) (82gms, 34gls (11pp), 64pts (21pp))
N.Kadri: 99gms, 32gls (9pp), 79pts (20pp), 16:53 (2:20pp) (82gms, 27gls (8pp), 65pts (17pp))



Very similar numbers, though Kessel got almost twice the PP time.

Only looking at the numbers, they are similar. However you have to remember that Kessel's premier linemate for some time was Joey Crabb.

Kadri has the luxury of playing on a better team. I think at the end of the day 60-70 pts is the most we should expect in Kadri's prime. Kessel also has a much larger sample to his name, Kadri shouldn't be expected to continue to score like kessel for 70 more games.

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

When does kadri talk about it?

Its not like he said "i am amazing"

He's never talked about it. The guy is a mix of humble and confident. Some people are just intimidated by confident individuals so they confuse them for people who are arrogant and cocky.

The whole "Kadri has personality issues" is some of the dumbest stuff I've read here.

 

[Mindrust]

The truth is for every Marleau that started "slow" and turned out well there is a Chad Kilger. Nazem has the skill level (as did Kilger) its whether he can put it all together and remain consistent with a good attitude. His speech after the game was anything but humble.

If he puts up points, he can be as cocky as he wants (I'm not saying that he is, but if he was). I play first person shooters and am usually one of the top players. I get cocky as hell when I win. The US Navy Seals are cocky because they're the GD best at what they do. There's nothing wrong with being cocky. Unless you're just jealous, but that's a different story altogether.

Kadri has great leadership and confidence. I don't think there are any issues, just a bunch of jealous whiners.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

As long as Kadri stays in Toronto as a centre I do not care if he 2nd or 3rd line C.
It actually would be interesting to make the second line and third line both equally tough to play against in 3 zones instead of the bonafide shutdown line. Kadri I feel would benefit as he did during the shortened season facing lower quality competition

 

[yubbers]

If he puts up points, he can be as cocky as he wants (I'm not saying that he is, but if he was). I play first person shooters and am usually one of the top players. I get cocky as hell when I win. The US Navy Seals are cocky because they're the GD best at what they do. There's nothing wrong with being cocky. Unless you're just jealous, but that's a different story altogether.

Kadri has great leadership and confidence. I don't think there are any issues, just a bunch of jealous whiners.

There's a limit though. And I find hockey has one of the lowest thresholds for this. There's a fine line between being cocky and a ******.

Really? It blocks out d to the ouche? lame

 

[tony135420]

As long as Kadri stays in Toronto as a centre I do not care if he 2nd or 3rd line C.
It actually would be interesting to make the second line and third line both equally tough to play against in 3 zones instead of the bonafide shutdown line. Kadri I feel would benefit as he did during the shortened season facing lower quality competition

This.

We almost have the personel to accomplish this in my opinion.

I do feel Lupes-Kadri-Kule line is solid, though. I don't know if this a coincidence or not, but ever since Kadri started playing with Kule, he seems less of a liability in the defensive and Neutral zone. Still makes some of those bonehead defensive zone passes, but when he gets in that offensive zone or in the transition, beauty to watch.

 

[Auzzie19]

He also hasn't been in the top 5 in goals for each of the past 6...Over the past 4 seasons cumulative he has scored the 8th most points in the league.



I'm not arguing that he's a bust, just that points overall doesn't tell the whole story about a player's offense. Even with less minutes, Kadri's minutes are a lot easier than Kessel and JVR's, and when he played with them all 3 of their numbers went down. Sure, Kadri can score, but comparing him to Kessel or other players who score at better paces with tougher minutes and complaining about it is skewing the numbers just as much as those who say he's a bust when he has failed to produce when given the bigger minutes.

What do you mean alot easier? Did you see who the opposing D men were that he plays against? Last game it was his line against the Fillpula line (shutdown line) and he was facing Hedman for most of the game.

Going back the last couple games we see he has faced the oppositions best/shutdown lines and D pairings.

 

[mikebel111*]

What do you mean alot easier? Did you see who the opposing D men were that he plays against? Last game it was his line against the Fillpula line (shutdown line) and he was facing Hedman for most of the game.

Going back the last couple games we see he has faced the oppositions best/shutdown lines and D pairings.

I think he means overall

 

[Banic]

You really think people who dislike his attitude are jealous of him? Because that makes sense... why be jealous of Kadri who has proven nothing and not Toews or Crosby. It's not just a couple fans that see his "confidence" as an issue. Coaches, analysts, media and fans have pointed it out, that doesn't make us blind, jealous or stupid. I personally don't see how he has great leadership. But I do see Kadri being laughed at on Leafs lunch (for example) for seeing "kuddo's to them". Would Toews, Crosby, Stamkos ever say that? No. How about Messier, Sakic, Yzerman ? Much more skilled and accomplished hockey players! They don't need to. True CONFIDENCE isn't about trying to convince everyone else. You don't need to, but Kadri apparently does.

 

[HockeyThoughts]

This.

We almost have the personel to accomplish this in my opinion.

I do feel Lupes-Kadri-Kule line is solid, though. I don't know if this a coincidence or not, but ever since Kadri started playing with Kule, he seems less of a liability in the defensive and Neutral zone. Still makes some of those bonehead defensive zone passes, but when he gets in that offensive zone or in the transition, beauty to watch.

No coincidence. Since Nikolai Kulemin has been on that line they have maintained way better possession than with Mason Raymond. Kulemin is a beast on the boards in both zones and does a lot of the heavy lifting defensively that aids Nazem Kadri.

 

[Quares27]

At the end of the day if he ends up as a 65-70 pt guy I will be very happy with that... there aren't a lot of players out there with his combination of skill and physicality/pest like abilities

 

[diceman934]

He's never talked about it. The guy is a mix of humble and confident. Some people are just intimidated by confident individuals so they confuse them for people who are arrogant and cocky.

The whole "Kadri has personality issues" is some of the dumbest stuff I've read here.

I agree......he gives all the stock answers and takes and accepts blame....imagine that! Yet still people think he is cocky etc. He has jumped through hoops here to be the player that people want him to be. He played wing when he is a natural center....no complaints. He has played with 4th line players and did not complain or whine...he has produce playing with different line mates every few games and plays against top players all the time and still people are not happy.

 

[Diatomic]

I've always thought it was funny when people say that Kadri has a bad attitude or that Kadri is out of shape. I love phil but if someone mentioned the word 'personality/attitude problems and out of shape' in the same sentence, Phil Kessel comes to mind regarding the leafs.

 

[diceman934]

You really think people who dislike his attitude are jealous of him? Because that makes sense... why be jealous of Kadri who has proven nothing and not Toews or Crosby. It's not just a couple fans that see his "confidence" as an issue. Coaches, analysts, media and fans have pointed it out, that doesn't make us blind, jealous or stupid. I personally don't see how he has great leadership. But I do see Kadri being laughed at on Leafs lunch (for example) for seeing "kuddo's to them". Would Toews, Crosby, Stamkos ever say that? No. How about Messier, Sakic, Yzerman ? Much more skilled and accomplished hockey players! They don't need to. True CONFIDENCE isn't about trying to convince everyone else. You don't need to, but Kadri apparently does.

How about Brett Hull, Jeremy Roenick etc.....so many examples of players that speak their minds etc. Kadri gives all the stock answer and takes blame for his faults....yet you think he boasts....How about Messier he spoke his mind, told everyone that the Ranger will win the cup in Game 7, and many other items....spoke out when he was left off team Canada....

Crosby is always whining about things....like when Ovi got a hat trick he complained to the refs about the amount of hats tossed on the ice....so when giving examples it may be best if you use ones who did not whine and boast when attacking Kadri for this when he has yet to do this.....

 

[Banic]

How about Brett Hull, Jeremy Roenick etc.....so many examples of players that speak their minds etc. Kadri gives all the stock answer and takes blame for his faults....yet you think he boasts....How about Messier he spoke his mind, told everyone that the Ranger will win the cup in Game 7, and many other items....spoke out when he was left off team Canada....

Crosby is always whining about things....like when Ovi got a hat trick he complained to the refs about the amount of hats tossed on the ice....so when giving examples it may be best if you use ones who did not whine and boast when attacking Kadri for this when he has yet to do this.....

Hull and Roenick are both "Americans" who people think are d bags. When we think of Great Canadian Hockey leaders you think of humble, modest teammates who don't gloat. That doesn't mean he's not a quality hockey players. As for Messier the man had already won numerous cups when he made that comment about New York, he had the right to gloat, what has Kadri done?

I am not saying he's not skilled, but I do not like his attitude.

 

[zeke]

Kadri finished 12th in all hockey in center scoring at age 22.

This year at age 23, during a "down" year and having missed 4gms, he's tied for 29th in centre scoring.

And you guys are arguing that he's a third line center? Are you crazy or just stupid?

 

[diceman934]

Hull and Roenick are both "Americans" who people think are d bags. When we think of Great Canadian Hockey leaders you think of humble, modest teammates who don't gloat. That doesn't mean he's not a quality hockey players. As for Messier the man had already won numerous cups when he made that comment about New York, he had the right to gloat, what has Kadri done?

I am not saying he's not skilled, but I do not like his attitude.

So you are saying now it is ok to boast etc.....when in your last post you said that the examples you gave let their play do the talking. I point out you were wrong and now you changed your tune.....Crosby does nothing but whine....and you hold him out to be humble and modest etc....what BS.

Brett Hull is a Canadian born in Belleville Ont....he chose to play for the USA when he did not get invited to play for team Canada at the world championships and the American team invited him as he had dual citizenship as his mother was an American. To call him A D bag lets me know all I need to know about your lack of ability to assess character.

Messier is considered by many to be the best Captain in the modern era and he was far from being modest or humble.....

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

I agree......he gives all the stock answers and takes and accepts blame....imagine that! Yet still people think he is cocky etc. He has jumped through hoops here to be the player that people want him to be. He played wing when he is a natural center....no complaints. He has played with 4th line players and did not complain or whine...he has produce playing with different line mates every few games and plays against top players all the time and still people are not happy.

If he were cocky or arrogant, like the people who blindly hate him claim, he would've asked to be traded years ago. Kadri had a looong road to the NHL, with many downs, but he used those downs to elevate his game. Thats what makes people like him so special, they don't break when things aren't going their way.

And yea, if you don't like his attitude thats a larger reflection of yourself than Kadri, because there isn't a problem with it.

 

[Banic]

So you are saying now it is ok to boast etc.....when in your last post you said that the examples you gave let their play do the talking. I point out you were wrong and now you changed your tune.....Crosby does nothing but whine....and you hold him out to be humble and modest etc....what BS.

Brett Hull is a Canadian born in Belleville Ont....he chose to play for the USA when he did not get invited to play for team Canada at the world championships and the American team invited him as he had dual citizenship as his mother was an American. To call him A D bag lets me know all I need to know about your lack of ability to assess character.

Messier is considered by many to be the best Captain in the modern era and he was far from being modest or humble.....

I didn't say it was okay at all. It is more acceptable as Messier has proven more, and his "gloating" isn't even comparable to what Kadri has done.

I am not a Crosby fan in the slightest but his whining doesn't make him less humble.. it makes him a whiner. He asked Toews before he accepted captaincy, Kadri would never consider another player.

As for Hull, that's why I put it in quotations. You can think less of my ability to assess character, I could care less. Your judgment of Kadri as quality character with leadership tells me all I need to know about you as well.

 

[Banic]

If he were cocky or arrogant, like the people who blindly hate him claim, he would've asked to be traded years ago. Kadri had a looong road to the NHL, with many downs, but he used those downs to elevate his game. Thats what makes people like him so special, they don't break when things aren't going their way.

And yea, if you don't like his attitude thats a larger reflection of yourself than Kadri, because there isn't a problem with it.

How is it a reflection of oneself for not liking a characteristic in someone else?? Surely there is something about someone you dislike, I guess that must be a problem you have as well by your logic.