Salary Cap: Nazem “Suspension” Kadri – Cap casualty?

[Nithoniniel]

2016-2017 he scored 32 goals
2017-2018 he scored 32 goals

ya I know, your surprised.

I'm not sure he'll have as prevalent spot on the team anymore though. He got a ton of goals on the PP, and he's gone from our primary finisher on that unit to the third option. I think he's going to produce closer to 20-50 going forward than 30-60.

 

[Gary Nylund]

2016-2017 he scored 32 goals
2017-2018 he scored 32 goals

ya I know, your surprised.

Recent performance has a lot more relevance than past performance, 14 goals was his most recent production and FYI Kadri's only hit 60 pts once in his career, and that was several seasons ago so talking about him as a 60 pt player is kind of ridiculous.

Way easier for Leafs to get a 3 C though trade, free agency or within the system then to find a capable RHD.

There is no reason a 3C needs to get 30 goals and 60 points (No clue where your list comes from).

The reason people are talking about trading Kadri is because he has a ton of value, not because they don't like him of think he is bad.

For sure. And TBH I felt Kadri's talents were kind of wasted last season anyway. If his role is going to stay at the reduced state it was in last season than trading him might make complete sense.

 

[ACC1224]

I'm OK with moving Kadri. But at what cost and for who?

for example, Leafs trade Kadri for Trouba. Great Leafs need to RHD. But now what happens to 3C?

Nylander becomes the full time 3 c.

 

[ULF_55]

Recent performance has a lot more relevance than past performance, 14 goals was his most recent production and FYI Kadri's only hit 60 pts once in his career, and that was several seasons ago so talking about him as a 60 pt player is kind of ridiculous.

For sure. And TBH I felt Kadri's talents were kind of wasted last season anyway. If his role is going to stay at the reduced state it was in last season than trading him might make complete sense.

Unless they move Kadri to left wing?

Kadri-Matthews-Nylander
Hyman-Tavares-Marner

I'm not sure there are any fans who don't want to see the ice time for Matthews and Tavares increase?
Both should be at least 20 minutes a night.
That means the 3rd. line is going to have even less TOI, and it would make more sense to have a center who can PK on the 3rd. line.

 

[diceman934]

defend him for what? a clean shoulder to shoulder hit, to which Marleau got right back up? and so his response to defend his teammate is to make an illegal hit to the head? Why did he have to defend him that way? Why couldn't he just drop the gloves? Why did it have to be at that moment?

He hasn't proven he can change. because if he could change he wouldn't have been stupid enough to choose defend his teammate by taking his stick and hitting someone in the head with it, something that he's been suspended for doing (hitting people's heads) before. If he has proven he can change, then after last year when he got suspended for defending his teammates and everyone in management talked to him he would have had the sense that God gave a grasshopper and thought "okay i know i have to defend Patty here, but let's maybe not do it now."

not to mention I am asking again.
do people honestly think Kadri is going to score 30 goals from the 30 line next year (or the next few years). yes or no.
and - do people honestly think he's going to re-sign here for the same amount money if he does or if he wants to be a 2nd/1st liner somewhere else, because it's literally not going to be here.

forget the fact that I can't trust him not to hurt this team to "defend" his teammates and not do dirty plays and what not, we have some holes to fix in this team and I'd argue having a legitimate 3rd line centre who can produce very well with limited options vs. Kadri who might not be able to - is one of them. (OR getting actual long term defensive help).

I'm pretty sure if the team needs a pest we can find one . and if we're lucky enough maybe they constantly won't get suspended for hitting people in the head either.

If you think the check to Marleau is clean then no sense going any further is was among the most gutless thing I have saw in a game.

Kadri is a great center and at his cap hit good luck finding anyone who can replace him.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Unless they move Kadri to left wing?

Kadri-Matthews-Nylander
Hyman-Tavares-Marner

I'm not sure there are any fans who don't want to see the ice time for Matthews and Tavares increase?
Both should be at least 20 minutes a night.
That means the 3rd. line is going to have even less TOI, and it would make more sense to have a center who can PK on the 3rd. line.

This seems like a fine idea, the biggest questions are would Babcock finally come around to the idea of playing his best players more and who would be the #3C and the Babcock question is probably the biggest.

There's also the question of how do we patch our D if we keep all those guys, that may be an even bigger question than the Babcock issue.

Edit - in principle though I like the idea of Kadri having a bigger role if he's still here next season, I like it a lot.

 

[kindalaidback]

Nylander becomes the full time 3 c.

Babcock already said that he wants William on the wing. And why are we wasting 5 years of his prime on the third line, only giving him limited minutes and opportunities?

 

[diceman934]

Nylander becomes the full time 3 c.

7m for his replacement who can not produce without a star player would be among the stupidest things the the Leafs have done in a very long time. Paying 2.5m more for less production and no jam at all to his game and far worse defensively.

 

[ACC1224]

Babcock already said that he wants William on the wing. And why are we wasting 5 years of his prime on the third line, only giving him limited minutes and opportunities?

Minutes are spread pretty evenly between the 3 lines.
It's only a waste if the team does poorly.
He's a much better center than winger.

 

[ACC1224]

7m for his replacement who can not produce without a star player would be among the stupidest things the the Leafs have done in a very long time. Paying 2.5m more for less production and no jam at all to his game and far worse defensively.

Thats a whole other topic.

 

[ULF_55]

Babcock already said that he wants William on the wing. And why are we wasting 5 years of his prime on the third line, only giving him limited minutes and opportunities?

Leafs aren't.

He'd likely be a stop gap if there was an injury to the 3rd. line center, same way Kadri could be a 2nd. line center if there was an injury to Matthews/Tavares if he stayed.
Of course Nylander could fill 2nd. line center role if Kadri is dealt and one of Tavares/Matthews was injured.

But you don't construct your team based on having injured players, that's what depth is for.

 

[Nylander88]

Wasn't there a rumour of LA wanting the leafs to take the next 3 years of Jeff Carter's 5.2m for the one year of Marleau's 6.25m? Maybe the Leafs see that as an option and that's why they're thinking of moving Kadri for help on the back end?
Matthews-Tavares-Carter down the middle? Not saying I like the move at all, but maybe that's a train of thought. Otherwise I think moving Kadri leaves a big hole at 3C. Essentially end up paying your 3C 700k more a year (Carter) on the same length(3yrs),save a million from Marleau, and put 300k in the pocket. Kind of a lateral move but I'm puzzled lol

 

[Pookie]

SO are you denying that fact that...
2016-2017 he scored 32 goals
2017-2018 he scored 32 goals

????????

He scored them. In the past.

Wendel Clark was a 30-40 goal scorer. Isn’t any more.

Kadri isn’t a 30G scorer anymore.

 

[Pookie]

I dont understand why you brought the Leafs defense into a convo about trading a good cheap 3C .... please elaborate as to what Kadri has to do with the defense?

Trade him to fill one of the 3 holes that will be on the blue line.

Unless you want to sign old and expensive UFAs.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

He scored them. In the past.

Wendel Clark was a 30-40 goal scorer. Isn’t any more.

Kadri isn’t a 30G scorer anymore.

Honestly don't know how you can make that statement. His skills have not declined. Read my post above and think about it. Anyone who Marleau was placed with suffered terribly including Matty. This is the NHL and you can't play with at best a 4th liner on your wing. and then add in an out of hockey shape Willy for 6 weeks mid season and do not forget quite a few posts at start of season (i think leading nhl for first few months anyways) and his play improved by seasons end. I wonder why??????????? It would not be a surprise if he plays with Willy and Moore for a full season that he pots 30+ real easy even 35+.
Hyman Tavares Marner
Johnsson Matty Kappy
Moore Kadri Willy
You can easily make an argument it is top 3 lines in the NHL as a whole

 

[mrbagina]

Kadri hate is strong here.

One cannot defend his suspension. But to me Kadri is the heart of the team. Plays with the most passion. I love him on our team and would be very upset if he is traded.

Never

 

[HolyCrap]

and who are the Leafs trading for that score 30 goals?

Leafs don’t need a 30 goal 3C. Also Kadri didn’t score 30 goals last season. Not even close. Again. Look at the big picture and take off the homer glasses.

 

[HolyCrap]

2016-2017 he scored 32 goals
2017-2018 he scored 32 goals

ya I know, your surprised.

Everyone knew this. Lol.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Honestly don't know how you can make that statement. His skills have not declined. Read my post above and think about it. Anyone who Marleau was placed with suffered terribly including Matty. This is the NHL and you can't play with at best a 4th liner on your wing. and then add in an out of hockey shape Willy for 6 weeks mid season and do not forget quite a few posts at start of season (i think leading nhl for first few months anyways) and his play improved by seasons end. I wonder why??????????? It would not be a surprise if he plays with Willy and Moore for a full season that he pots 30+ real easy even 35+.
Hyman Tavares Marner
Johnsson Matty Kappy
Moore Kadri Willy
You can easily make an argument it is top 3 lines in the NHL as a whole

The truth is somewhere in the middle (as it usually is). It's pretty obvious that Kadri's linemates were poor which has an effect on his numbers, you'd have to be pretty obtuse to argue otherwise. At the same time, he's only put up 60 points once and had only 14 goals last season so saying he pots 30+ easy with whoever makes no sense either.

 

[ULF_55]

Kadri and Zaitsev
for
Dylan Strome and Connor Murphy

 

[Tak7]

Well IT is legal now so I guess I understand where this feeling may come from.

With him in the lineup, the 3rd line produced.

With him not in the lineup, the 3rd line didn't.

End of discussion.

 

[Tak7]

Why do you have to find those qualities?

Because those are the qualities you need in a good depth center for a team that wants to win the cup - look at the center depth for the past few cup winners.

What GM trades a legit top pairing dman for a 3rd line center? C'mon now.

None. Kadri's not a typical 3C though, which is why his name is being thrown around. On a team that doesn't have Matthews / Tavares, he's playing much higher in the lineup.

The way this team is built upfront, it feels to me there are a lot of players who are very similar in what they do for this team. If "Jam" is the reason why we are suggesting Kadri stays, $4.5 million is a lot to play for "Jam".

Jam.
His age.
His production.
His offensive ability - he's a multiple time 30 goal scorer.
His defensive ability - he plays against the opposition's best
Keeps Nylander on Matthews' wing - move him to center and you immediately dull the Leafs offense.
He's great at faceoffs - 56% in the playoffs this past year.
His contract.
His position.
His understanding of the market.
His ability.
His experience to handle the pressure in Toronto.
His two-way game.

$4.5 million for 3 years.

Succeeding in the cap world is all about finding players that outperform their contracts. Nazem Kadri is one such example.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Because those are the qualities you need in a good depth center for a team that wants to win the cup - look at the center depth for the past few cup winners.

None. Kadri's not a typical 3C though, which is why his name is being thrown around. On a team that doesn't have Matthews / Tavares, he's playing much higher in the lineup.

Jam.
His age.
His production.
His offensive ability - he's a multiple time 30 goal scorer.
His defensive ability - he plays against the opposition's best
Keeps Nylander on Matthews' wing - move him to center and you immediately dull the Leafs offense.
He's great at faceoffs - 56% in the playoffs this past year.
His contract.
His position.
His understanding of the market.
His ability.
His experience to handle the pressure in Toronto.
His two-way game.

$4.5 million for 3 years.

Succeeding in the cap world is all about finding players that outperform their contracts. Nazem Kadri is one such example.

Kadri's a valuable asset but some things on that list are LOL ridiculous.

His age - is getting to the point where players start to decline.

His understanding of the market - wut? Is Kadri a futures trader?

Faceoffs - I don't think you want to get into playoffs stats as games missed due to him being a hothead is the most relevant one from the last 2 years.

Handling the pressure - when the pressure's on he's been getting suspended lately so no.

Succeeding in the playoffs is firstly about finding players that are allowed to play in the playoffs. Nazem Kadri is the best example of why this is so important.

 

[Guided by Veseys]

He’s huge value at his price, why would you want to go out of your way to trade him? You would have to hit a huge homerun to exceed what would be his hockey equivalent to WAR. Seems like people want to trade him simply as a vendetta, how dumb is that. If your reasons for trading Kadri are personal please do everyone a favour and stop defending your reasoning, say your piece and move on.
Most leaf fans would be interested in trading him if the price is right but some seem interested in running this guy out of town.

 

[Daisy Jane]

If you think the check to Marleau is clean then no sense going any further is was among the most gutless thing I have saw in a game.

Kadri is a great center and at his cap hit good luck finding anyone who can replace him.

it was shoulder to shoulder. it was where the hit was, that people had issue with it, because it was near the stanchion - most media (not just toronto, or boston mind you) thought it was a good hit, just bad location - where i've always said that's what made it gross. i never ever said otherwise to that fact. but I am sorry i will call a spade a spade. if it's gutless to check someone near/into the stanchion(something that i said over and over again that was really gross, and Debrusk should have been taken to task for that) - then it is equally gutless to take your stick and check it into someone's head.I don't care if it's Kadri or Matthews, or McDavid, or the Dali Lama. I'd be consistent on that one. there were many ways to defend that hit, and Kadri chose the illegal option. Two wrongs don't equal a right.

and I will also point out. I have never said, that Kadri was not a bad centre. What I said was - he can't be trusted to keep his cool. And people can make this all about injury prone players and all that other stuff, which is fine, but again. this is my question - if the Leafs are depending Kadri to really maximize line up decisions and pairings, and the Leafs make it to the finals, - and part of any good coach's strategy would be "get under Kadri's skin and get him to snap, even if it means you have to toe the line, go over the line." do you 100 percent trust Kadri not to retaliate? Do you 100 percent believe that he'll bide his time to defend his teammate (should something happen?)

because I do not because he's proven time and again he doesn't learn from these kind of mistakes - not to mention. even if we want to play the game of, "yeah sure now it's finally sinking in that he can't do something like this" it doesn't change the fact that, despite that Kadri is a 2x 30 goal scorer, at 4.5 million - the question.is. one more time is this and i'll post this one too.

BUT where are you going to find a player who can score 30 goals at 4.5M??
.

Do you believe that Nazem Kadri is going to score 30 goals from the third line with limited chances?

because if not then it doesn't matter that we have a 30 goal scorer at 4.5m, because he's not going to be able to do it on the third line, and he might not get prime powerplay time (not if we're getting a new PP strat, the go too might just be Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Nylander, and Rielly. and ride them for the 2 minutes).

if you do think he is, then do you believe that he's going to stay at 4.5 (or a little bit more) to stay with the Leafs, when it is possible that if he was a 2nd line (or a 1st line centre for another team he'd be able to hit 35-40+?)

so either way - . we either had a 30 goal scorer who won't be able to do it, or we have someone who can, which has great value to this team to make it better in the areas that we are woefully lacking in.

people wanna go people hate Kadri, and I just want to make it quite clear that i don't. but I don't put my 'love of the player." trump the love i have for the team. The team will always come first to me and what it needs to be better. so regardless of the fact that I don't trust Kadri to do the smart thing on the ice if he's angry - i respect what he also brings to the team, and i think it would behoove the team to maximize the asset and move him out to improve.

because the Leafs do not need a 3rd line 30 goal scorer. that's a luxury.