OT: Nats, Wiz, O's, Ravens, Terps, Navy, Gtown, Mystics, Golf, Summer 2024 (Paris Olympics 2024 as well)

[twabby]

It's a sham, of course, but @CaptainAmerica 's point is also valid. I wonder how many black people are imprisoned in the US currently due to minor drug offenses, for instance. Or how many Muslims are still being held and tortured in Guantanamo as political prisoners despite no evidence suggesting they are terrorists.

And a hearty chuckle at the idea that prisoners in the US aren't subject to penal labor!

 

[g00n]

It's a sham, of course, but @CaptainAmerica 's point is also valid. I wonder how many black people are imprisoned in the US currently due to minor drug offenses, for instance. Or how many Muslims are still being held and tortured in Guantanamo as political prisoners despite no evidence suggesting they are terrorists.

And a hearty chuckle at the idea that prisoners in the US aren't subject to penal labor!

Nobody said Americans never do penal labor.

I said nobody is getting 9 years in a labor camp for a tiny amount of hash oil...basically personal use. The max for 1st offense of a much, much higher amount is still only 5yrs and that's going to be rare.

 

[John Price]

 

[kicksavedave]

Nobody said Americans never do penal labor.

I said nobody is getting 9 years in a labor camp for a tiny amount of hash oil...basically personal use. The max for 1st offense of a much, much higher amount is still only 5yrs and that's going to be rare.

Some 3 strikes offenders got massive prison terms for tiny offenses because, well, 3 strikes. Griner is clearly a political pawn, but Twabby's point is valid, American justice has forever been blatantly biased and not always "just" and very much depends on perspective and race. It may not be always as corrupt as Griner's case but it has a long track record of injustice. The Innocence Project exists for such a reason.

 

[g00n]

Some 3 strikes offenders got massive prison terms for tiny offenses because, well, 3 strikes. Griner is clearly a political pawn, but Twabby's point is valid, American justice has forever been blatantly biased and not always "just" and very much depends on perspective and race. It may not be always as corrupt as Griner's case but it has a long track record of injustice. The Innocence Project exists for such a reason.

We're not talking about that. We're talking about this specific penalty. It's not comparable in America. This isn't her 3rd strike, either. That's also a remnant of the crack epidemic, not someone with a friggin vape pen.

It's perfect solution fallacy, or whataboutism...incidentally a trademark RU propaganda technique. We don't have to have a perfect system here to say this particular sentence/situation is bullshit.

 

[EroCaps]

Bro it’s not any different in red/rural America.
Idaho/ Wyoming would probably do the same. Let’s not cast rocks when we live in a glass house.

The f*** do you know about “rural America”?

Spent a lot of time in Idaho/Wyoming have you?

 

[kicksavedave]

We're not talking about that. We're talking about this specific penalty. It's not comparable in America. This isn't her 3rd strike, either. That's also a remnant of the crack epidemic, not someone with a friggin vape pen.

It's perfect solution fallacy, or whataboutism...incidentally a trademark RU propaganda technique. We don't have to have a perfect system here to say this particular sentence/situation is bullshit.

3 strikes is just one example of our failing justice system, there are thousands of others. But yeah, these aren't apples to apples comparisons, Griners sentencing. The point is still valid, people get railroaded in America plenty.

 

[g00n]

3 strikes is just one example of our failing justice system, there are thousands of others. But yeah, these aren't apples to apples comparisons, Griners sentencing. The point is still valid, people get railroaded in America plenty.

Never said the point is untrue regarding the unfairness and inconsistency of the system etc IN GENERAL. It's just not relevant here

Sometimes doctors screw up. This is a true statement. Has f***-all to do with Griner's situation, too.

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

I was watching when this happened. I remember thinking at the time Ryan was giving Ventura a noogie.

 

[Ridley Simon]

Clearly a tactic for more leverage behind a prisoner exchange or other political concession but yeah, no thanks on a visit to Russia for me.

I know Griner was working in Russia so it’s different but I’ll never understand the people who willingly travel to dangerous places. Maybe I’m paranoid because of my military background but why do people feel the need to visit places like North Korea, Iran, Afghanistan’s, etc?? Or why do people volunteer to provide aid in places like Syria or Libya? The risk/reward profile is skewed so heavily in the favor of risk that it just blows my mind how we regularly read articles about this person being kidnapped by rebels and held for ransom in Syria or that person bring detained by government officials trying to leave Iran. I guess people think bad shit will never happen to them and then it’s too late.

Well …. my wife is Persian. So our children are half. I definitely want them to see their other home land, at some point in time, and I would 100% want to go with them.

But other than that, I mostly get your point. I won’t be traveling to Yemen anytime soon.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

We're not talking about that. We're talking about this specific penalty. It's not comparable in America. This isn't her 3rd strike, either. That's also a remnant of the crack epidemic, not someone with a friggin vape pen.

It's perfect solution fallacy, or whataboutism...incidentally a trademark RU propaganda technique. We don't have to have a perfect system here to say this particular sentence/situation is bullshit.

No one is denying the sentence is bullshit, but America is not anywhere remotely close to perfect. To say otherwise is completely disingenuous.

Native American genocide and enslavement of Africans while Thomas Jefferson was harping about how “all men are created equal” … while he freaking owned slaves. Heck, I have multiple conservatives at my work that say the Native Americans were savages and white people deserved to take their land. Shit that makes your jaw drop. Still to this day there has been no formal recognition of the genocide of the natives or any monument dedicated in DC to their suffering.

Jim Crow laws to suppress blacks in the south and give them zero economic mobility. This is still going on to some extent. Legislatures across the south try to margenazlie black votes by gerrymandering the districts so the their vote amounts to almost nothing.

Our Supreme Court is run by religious extremists that don’t believe in separation of church and state. They want to use the Bible to dictate laws of the land and give the green light for gerrymandering. “Christian Sharia Law” in essence.

Black people get murdered by the police/vigilantes without any repercussions. We have invaded and killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people and labeled it as “collateral damage”. I can go on on.

If you think we are just “not prefect” then you need to self evaluate and look in the mirror. I would say you’re in denial.

It’s much harder to judge oneself, so I understand how human nature works.

 

[g00n]

No one is denying the sentence is bullshit, but America is not anywhere remotely close to perfect. To say otherwise is completely disingenuous.

Native American genocide and enslavement of Africans while Thomas Jefferson was harping about how “all men are created equal” … while he freaking owned slaves. Heck, I have multiple conservatives at my work that say the Native Americans were savages and white people deserved to take their land. Shit that makes your jaw drop. Still to this day there has been no formal recognition of the genocide of the natives or any monument dedicated in DC to their suffering.

Jim Crow laws to suppress blacks in the south and give them zero economic mobility. This is still going on to some extent. Legislatures across the south try to margenazlie black votes by gerrymandering the districts so the their vote amounts to almost nothing.

Our Supreme Court is run by religious extremists that don’t believe in separation of church and state. They want to use the Bible to dictate laws of the land and give the green light for gerrymandering. “Christian Sharia Law” in essence.

Black people get murdered by the police/vigilantes without any repercussions. We have invaded and killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people and labeled it as “collateral damage”. I can go on on.

If you think we are just “not prefect” then you need to self evaluate and look in the mirror. I would say you’re in denial.

It’s much harder to judge oneself, so I understand how human nature works.

I know all of that and much more.

Life is complicated. The USA is not innocent but again calling attention to those things is textbook WHATABOUTISM.

What about 'whataboutism'?

If everyone is guilty of something, is no one guilty of anything?

www.merriam-webster.com

The world is far more complex than the black and white we prefer. What country is pure of heart and action throughout history? Can we never find any fault with any action anywhere, because there's always a skeleton in the closet? If that's the case then who is ever innocent? Why even fight for "morality" at all?

We aren't striking a blow for the little guy or upending corruption by pointing out these obvious flaws, however you want to magnify them or get upset when you think people are diminishing them.

Refusing to allow analysis to be bogged down by tangential arguments isn't denial it's staying on topic and staying focused.

You don't need to deny or accept atrocities of the past to recognize right and wrong in the present.

 

[usiel]

Griner put herself in a bad spot obviously. And then had the horrible timing to go to Russia. I don't travel much these days but I am always super paranoid making sure I'm not accidentally carrying a bladed EDC since I never not go around with one domestically.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Bro it’s not any different in red/rural America.
Idaho/ Wyoming would probably do the same. Let’s not cast rocks when we live in a glass house.

You’re right, pondunk USA is totally showboating just for the International theater.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I know all of that and much more.

Life is complicated. The USA is not innocent but again calling attention to those things is textbook WHATABOUTISM.

What about 'whataboutism'?

If everyone is guilty of something, is no one guilty of anything?

www.merriam-webster.com

The world is far more complex than the black and white we prefer. What country is pure of heart and action throughout history? Can we never find any fault with any action anywhere, because there's always a skeleton in the closet? If that's the case then who is ever innocent? Why even fight for "morality" at all?

We aren't striking a blow for the little guy or upending corruption by pointing out these obvious flaws, however you want to magnify them or get upset when you think people are diminishing them.

Refusing to allow analysis to be bogged down by tangential arguments isn't denial it's staying on topic and staying focused.

You don't need to deny or accept atrocities of the past to recognize right and wrong in the present.

I give up trying to explain to you, if you’re jabbering about “whataboutism”. Apparently now it’s a crime to point blatant double standards. Double standards that are happening right in front of our eyes. Is it that you don’t care about non whites that you can so easily shrug their murder/genocide? How many other countries have invaded countries accross the globe to steel their resources for imperial conquest?

Impossible to have an educated/informed discussion when you’re not seeing the whole picture, but picking and choosing what frames you want to focus on. You literally shrugged off murder of innocent people as “whataboutism”.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t force it to drink. If you don’t want to drink, have it your way.

Honestly, this shit pisses me off. I have experienced a lot racism directed towards me because my family’s religion/origin. Even on this website, which I have screen shots of.

Anyhow, I’m done with this conversation. It’s making me really angry. Peace out

 

[g00n]

I give up trying to explain to you, if you’re jabbering about “whataboutism”. Apparently now it’s a crime to point blatant double standards. Double standards that are happening right in front of our eyes. Is it that you don’t care about non whites that you can so easily shrug their murder/genocide? How many other countries have invaded countries accross the globe to steel their resources for imperial conquest?

Impossible to have an educated/informed discussion when you’re not seeing the whole picture, but picking and choosing what frames you want to focus on. You literally shrugged off murder of innocent people as “whataboutism”.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t force it to drink. If you don’t want to drink, have it your way.

Honestly, this shit pisses me off. I have experienced a lot racism directed towards me because my family’s religion/origin. Even on this website, which I have screen shots of.

Anyhow, I’m done with this conversation. It’s making me really angry. Peace out

Boy did you miss the mark.

You got my beliefs 100% backwards.

This may shock you but not everything is part of a grand crusade.

And what you did was again textbook whataboutism. It doesn't mean what you take issue with is acceptable or that it's being dismissed as unworthy of attention.

It just means it's not relevant to THIS sentence of 9 years.

Tl,dr chill tf out, Francis

 

[Corby78]

Never said the point is untrue regarding the unfairness and inconsistency of the system etc IN GENERAL. It's just not relevant here

Sometimes doctors screw up. This is a true statement. Has f***-all to do with Griner's situation, too.

I think people don’t have a perspective on what life in other countries is like. Yea our system has flaws and always will due to the fact that people aren’t perfect and everyone has flaws. And while a “perfect” justice system should always be strived for, nobody will ever get there. But to compare the US system to what happens in Russia (and this specific case) is pretty short sighted. Especially the fact that she pleaded guilty specifically so the negotiations should start. Not the same at all.

 

[g00n]

I think people don’t have a perspective on what life in other countries is like. Yea our system has flaws and always will due to the fact that people aren’t perfect and everyone has flaws. And while a “perfect” justice system should always be strived for, nobody will ever get there. But to compare the US system to what happens in Russia (and this specific case) is pretty short sighted. Especially the fact that she pleaded guilty specifically so the negotiations should start. Not the same at all.

I'm still waiting for the specific examples of someone getting 9yrs in a US labor camp for a first offense vape pen.

Pointing out that discrepancy isn't mindless flag waving and denial, it's just sticking to the topic at hand instead of launching into broader tangents.

 

[AlexModvechkin8]

Moving on. Sorry my comment sparked this conversation but we’re done here.

 

[usiel]

Still not sure how feel now that it has been a few days since the Soto trade. Not being able to watch any games this year and last year due to dropping terrestrial cable I think disconnected me a little more from the team. I do think this is on the owners and the worst timing as the they are trying to sell the team. I guess this is what a small market team feels like always having their best players leave. And in this era of increasing economic inequality and the already generational wealth that is involved it is hard to care.

 

[kicksavedave]

Still not sure how feel now that it has been a few days since the Soto trade. Not being able to watch any games this year and last year due to dropping terrestrial cable I think disconnected me a little more from the team. I do think this is on the owners and the worst timing as the they are trying to sell the team. I guess this is what a small market team feels like always having their best players leave. And in this era of increasing economic inequality and the already generational wealth that is involved it is hard to care.

I read, I think on CSN DC, that the Soto side (Boras) didn't counter a single offer from the Nats, so they made it plainly clear they weren't going to negotiate or accept any offer, they wanted to get him to unrestricted free agency in a couple years and let the bidding war happen. Apparently Scott Boras clients go to free agency a lot, especially his superstars. So I'm not entirely sure this is on the owners, they could have offered more money and got rejected, but for the other side to not even counter means it wasn't an actual negotiation, they never wanted to sign in DC this early, they wanted Soto to be a free agent. That bidding war in 2 years could top $600M if he performs in San Diego.

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

 

[g00n]

Well that certainly proves something

 

[AlexModvechkin8]

This is so awesome.

 

[Ajax1995]

This is so awesome.

I can’t quite put my finger on why baseball games take so long…

That was cool though.