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Nationwide Arena/CBJ Finances Discussion II

For anybody losing sleep over this...

http://library.municode.com/HTML/16...H_INRE.html#CHTR_THECICOOH_INRE_S55WHREDONOAP

No ordinance passed by the council except as otherwise provided by this charter, shall go into effect until thirty days after its final passage by the council. If at any time within said thirty days, a petition signed by registered electors of the city, not less in number than five per cent of the total vote cast at the last preceding general municipal election be filed with the city clerk requesting that any such ordinance be repealed or submitted to a vote of the electors of the city, it shall not become operative until the steps indicated herein have been taken. All petition papers circulated with respect to the repeal of any such ordinance shall be uniform in character and have printed thereon the names and addresses of at least five electors of the city who shall be officially regarded as filing the petition.
Click to expand...

There's literally no way they can force the city to stop payment through referendum. That time passed years ago.

Honestly, I think they know this and this is about grandstanding far more than actually getting the deal overturned. But these guys' "intentions" is another story for a different place.
 
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Found this thread extremely interesting when it was brought up. I had no idea that there were such people who were out to get nationwide arena....

GET THIS....

So today, I started my Spring Semester at CSCC. I am taking 'Intro to American Government'. I did some background on the teacher... typed his name into Google and it seemed as if a million things popped up about himself..... a profound 'politician', author/novelist, agenda engineer on top of being a teacher... one of the head founders of the 'green party'.... well. I went to class today. The first class. He introduced himself and such..... "Any questions?" he asked our class.... out of random, a lady asked, "What is your political background?" .... my teacher replied and seemed to ramble until he suddenly started talking about financial situations around Columbus. He then, AND I QUOTE, "I am head presenter and executive of the initiative ballot proposing to terminate contract with Nationwide Arena and eliminate the Columbus Blue Jackets as a whole." His name? BOB FITRAKIS. He then brought up this article -----> http://columbusfreepress.com/article/nationwide-arena-bailout-illegal-money-laundering-scam ..................... unbelievable. right after the class ended, of course I went straight to the add/withdraw and dropped the class. As a season ticket holder of the CBJ... he not only insulted me but offended me greatly. What a joke of a professor. Wish the 40+ students in the room were all AVID CBJ fans.... what a riot it would have been. To make matters worse, I wore my Blue Jackets hoodie and hat. Again, What a joke of a professor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Fitrakis
http://www.cscc.edu/academics/departments/social-science/faculty/fitrakis.shtml
 
BLBow3r03 said:
Found this thread extremely interesting when it was brought up. I had no idea that there were such people who were out to get nationwide arena....

GET THIS....

So today, I started my Spring Semester at CSCC. I am taking 'Intro to American Government'. I did some background on the teacher... typed his name into Google and it seemed as if a million things popped up about himself..... a profound 'politician', author/novelist, agenda engineer on top of being a teacher... one of the head founders of the 'green party'.... well. I went to class today. The first class. He introduced himself and such..... "Any questions?" he asked our class.... out of random, a lady asked, "What is your political background?" .... my teacher replied and seemed to ramble until he suddenly started talking about financial situations around Columbus. He then, AND I QUOTE, "I am head presenter and executive of the initiative ballot proposing to terminate contract with Nationwide Arena and eliminate the Columbus Blue Jackets as a whole." His name? BOB FITRAKIS. He then brought up this article -----> http://columbusfreepress.com/article/nationwide-arena-bailout-illegal-money-laundering-scam ..................... unbelievable. right after the class ended, of course I went straight to the add/withdraw and dropped the class. As a season ticket holder of the CBJ... he not only insulted me but offended me greatly. What a joke of a professor. Wish the 40+ students in the room were all AVID CBJ fans.... what a riot it would have been. To make matters worse, I wore my Blue Jackets hoodie and hat. Again, What a joke of a professor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Fitrakis
http://www.cscc.edu/academics/departments/social-science/faculty/fitrakis.shtml
Click to expand...

Par for the course for the CCRG idiots.
 
BLBow3r03 said:
Found this thread extremely interesting when it was brought up. I had no idea that there were such people who were out to get nationwide arena....

GET THIS....

So today, I started my Spring Semester at CSCC. I am taking 'Intro to American Government'. I did some background on the teacher... typed his name into Google and it seemed as if a million things popped up about himself..... a profound 'politician', author/novelist, agenda engineer on top of being a teacher... one of the head founders of the 'green party'.... well. I went to class today. The first class. He introduced himself and such..... "Any questions?" he asked our class.... out of random, a lady asked, "What is your political background?" .... my teacher replied and seemed to ramble until he suddenly started talking about financial situations around Columbus. He then, AND I QUOTE, "I am head presenter and executive of the initiative ballot proposing to terminate contract with Nationwide Arena and eliminate the Columbus Blue Jackets as a whole." His name? BOB FITRAKIS. He then brought up this article -----> http://columbusfreepress.com/article/nationwide-arena-bailout-illegal-money-laundering-scam ..................... unbelievable. right after the class ended, of course I went straight to the add/withdraw and dropped the class. As a season ticket holder of the CBJ... he not only insulted me but offended me greatly. What a joke of a professor. Wish the 40+ students in the room were all AVID CBJ fans.... what a riot it would have been. To make matters worse, I wore my Blue Jackets hoodie and hat. Again, What a joke of a professor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Fitrakis
http://www.cscc.edu/academics/departments/social-science/faculty/fitrakis.shtml
Click to expand...

So this goes agaist their so called arguement that this has nothing to do with the team and being about being ""fair" to the citizens of Columbus.

The guy should be outed for the hater that he is.

It should also be noted that he appears to have lost every election he has run for and despite his multiple award for investigative jounalism, still can't get a job with a real new agency of any sort.

I don't care how many degrees the guy has. He probably wrote his own wikipedia page for his own ego and is smug enough to think his ***** don't stink and has convinced himself he has the answers to everything.
 
BLBow3r03 said:
Found this thread extremely interesting when it was brought up. I had no idea that there were such people who were out to get nationwide arena....

GET THIS....

So today, I started my Spring Semester at CSCC. I am taking 'Intro to American Government'. I did some background on the teacher... typed his name into Google and it seemed as if a million things popped up about himself..... a profound 'politician', author/novelist, agenda engineer on top of being a teacher... one of the head founders of the 'green party'.... well. I went to class today. The first class. He introduced himself and such..... "Any questions?" he asked our class.... out of random, a lady asked, "What is your political background?" .... my teacher replied and seemed to ramble until he suddenly started talking about financial situations around Columbus. He then, AND I QUOTE, "I am head presenter and executive of the initiative ballot proposing to terminate contract with Nationwide Arena and eliminate the Columbus Blue Jackets as a whole." His name? BOB FITRAKIS. He then brought up this article -----> http://columbusfreepress.com/article/nationwide-arena-bailout-illegal-money-laundering-scam ..................... unbelievable. right after the class ended, of course I went straight to the add/withdraw and dropped the class. As a season ticket holder of the CBJ... he not only insulted me but offended me greatly. What a joke of a professor. Wish the 40+ students in the room were all AVID CBJ fans.... what a riot it would have been. To make matters worse, I wore my Blue Jackets hoodie and hat. Again, What a joke of a professor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Fitrakis
http://www.cscc.edu/academics/departments/social-science/faculty/fitrakis.shtml
Click to expand...

I guess you'll have to excuse me if I'm not too worried about his 6 tweets and 4 facebook likes on a silly article. Sounds like someone who simply wants to beat his own chest and picked this issue for whatever reason.
 
FANonymous said:
I guess you'll have to excuse me if I'm not too worried about his 6 tweets and 4 facebook likes on a silly article. Sounds like someone who simply wants to beat his own chest and picked this issue for whatever reason.
Click to expand...

These people are political opportunists who have used the Arena deal as a vehicle to get their name out there and probably raise money. Some of them post on a popular Columbus website called Columbus Underground - reading some of the posts will want to make you punch a wall.

http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/nationwide-arena-bailout-has-got-to-go/page/41
 
Speedy Sanderson said:
These people are political opportunists who have used the Arena deal as a vehicle to get their name out there and probably raise money. Some of them post on a popular Columbus website called Columbus Underground - reading some of the posts will want to make you punch a wall.

http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/nationwide-arena-bailout-has-got-to-go/page/41
Click to expand...

try sitting in a class, having him as your professor, 3 days a week for an hour and a half........ thank goodness for the availability to drop classes.
 
Fitrakis is a longtime quasi-public figure/quasi-journalist/bonafide attention *****. He adheres to the principle (I might be making this part up) this "even populists need a d-bag."

EDIT (and in all fairness):
He may have legit training to be an instructor/teacher/prof for all I know.
 
How come these clowns don't have any problem with Franklin County owning Huntington Park and Cooper Stadium before that?
 
BLBow3r03 said:
Found this thread extremely interesting when it was brought up. I had no idea that there were such people who were out to get nationwide arena....

GET THIS....

So today, I started my Spring Semester at CSCC. I am taking 'Intro to American Government'. I did some background on the teacher... typed his name into Google and it seemed as if a million things popped up about himself..... a profound 'politician', author/novelist, agenda engineer on top of being a teacher... one of the head founders of the 'green party'.... well. I went to class today. The first class. He introduced himself and such..... "Any questions?" he asked our class.... out of random, a lady asked, "What is your political background?" .... my teacher replied and seemed to ramble until he suddenly started talking about financial situations around Columbus. He then, AND I QUOTE, "I am head presenter and executive of the initiative ballot proposing to terminate contract with Nationwide Arena and eliminate the Columbus Blue Jackets as a whole." His name? BOB FITRAKIS. He then brought up this article -----> http://columbusfreepress.com/article/nationwide-arena-bailout-illegal-money-laundering-scam ..................... unbelievable. right after the class ended, of course I went straight to the add/withdraw and dropped the class. As a season ticket holder of the CBJ... he not only insulted me but offended me greatly. What a joke of a professor. Wish the 40+ students in the room were all AVID CBJ fans.... what a riot it would have been. To make matters worse, I wore my Blue Jackets hoodie and hat. Again, What a joke of a professor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Fitrakis
http://www.cscc.edu/academics/departments/social-science/faculty/fitrakis.shtml
Click to expand...

Fitrakis is basically the Columbus version of Lyndon Larouche. Does he still have that mullet going too?

leesmith said:
How come these clowns don't have any problem with Franklin County owning Huntington Park and Cooper Stadium before that?
Click to expand...

...or the team that calls that stadium home, for that matter.
 
see, i would have kept the class and just related ever paper back to the positives of the lease agreement...
 
Mayor Bee said:
Fitrakis is basically the Columbus version of Lyndon Larouche. Does he still have that mullet going too?



...or the team that calls that stadium home, for that matter.
Click to expand...
]

haha yes. somewhat ala patrick kane mullet minus the stripes on the sides. talk about rambler.... geesh. wish I would've had enough gut to say something but i just slouched back in my CBJ gear in silence... :dunno:
 
BLBow3r03 said:
Found this thread extremely interesting when it was brought up. I had no idea that there were such people who were out to get nationwide arena....

GET THIS....

So today, I started my Spring Semester at CSCC. I am taking 'Intro to American Government'. I did some background on the teacher... typed his name into Google and it seemed as if a million things popped up about himself..... a profound 'politician', author/novelist, agenda engineer on top of being a teacher... one of the head founders of the 'green party'.... well. I went to class today. The first class. He introduced himself and such..... "Any questions?" he asked our class.... out of random, a lady asked, "What is your political background?" .... my teacher replied and seemed to ramble until he suddenly started talking about financial situations around Columbus. He then, AND I QUOTE, "I am head presenter and executive of the initiative ballot proposing to terminate contract with Nationwide Arena and eliminate the Columbus Blue Jackets as a whole." His name? BOB FITRAKIS. He then brought up this article -----> http://columbusfreepress.com/article/nationwide-arena-bailout-illegal-money-laundering-scam ..................... unbelievable. right after the class ended, of course I went straight to the add/withdraw and dropped the class. As a season ticket holder of the CBJ... he not only insulted me but offended me greatly. What a joke of a professor. Wish the 40+ students in the room were all AVID CBJ fans.... what a riot it would have been. To make matters worse, I wore my Blue Jackets hoodie and hat. Again, What a joke of a professor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Fitrakis
http://www.cscc.edu/academics/departments/social-science/faculty/fitrakis.shtml
Click to expand...

This is what is wrong with higher education today. I had a political science prof at Capital University back in the 70's that was one of the best Profs that I ever had. Never brought his own political beliefs into the classroom. What I thought was going to be a boring class turned out to be one of my favorites. He was an excellent teacher, and also quite a good Bridge player, as we became good friends and played on a regular basis.

Too bad more Profs today aren't like he was.
 
leesmith said:
How come these clowns don't have any problem with Franklin County owning Huntington Park and Cooper Stadium before that?
Click to expand...

Oh, I'm quite certain they do have a problem with them. I'd say they're picking their fight and the Jackets are, currently, the freshest and easiest target. Minor league baseball in Columbus goes back to the '30s and has always been fairly popular. The CBJ is "new" and the lease agreement is fresh in voters' minds. Also, the demographic for hockey is not the same as for baseball, in part because it's a much more expensive event, so they probably feel they can make a better case against public financial support for the Arena. I would guess that the counter to this is going to have to be based on the financial benefit of the District and the PR pluses for Columbus as a major league city. I doubt a favorable vote to defund the deal would be enforceable, but the negative vibe it might produce is something I'd prefer to avoid!
 
Samkow said:
For anybody losing sleep over this...

http://library.municode.com/HTML/16...H_INRE.html#CHTR_THECICOOH_INRE_S55WHREDONOAP



There's literally no way they can force the city to stop payment through referendum. That time passed years ago.

Honestly, I think they know this and this is about grandstanding far more than actually getting the deal overturned. But these guys' "intentions" is another story for a different place.
Click to expand...

Sam,

I've looked at this, believe me. It was one of the first things I did when the issue came up.

Here's the problem, as I see it. The argument by the Coalition of Dunces will be that, yes, they COULD have used the referendum to prevent the ordinance from enactment, but the Charter does not prevent them from putting forth an initiative at some later point to amend or overturn a prior ordinance simply because they did not use referendum at the time that they could have to prevent the ordinances enactment in the first place. The Charter is not particularly clear on this point.

There will be enough gray area in this whole thing that it could drag on in the courts. It will be a giant waste of time and money and could create a horrible precedent regardless of the ultimate decision--a decision in favor of the Coalition would have a detrimental impact on future public works projects and a decision in favor of the City/Nationwide, depending on how it is couched, could have a chilling effect on future initiatives and referendums which are legitimate democratic efforts to overturn failures of the local legislative process.

It would be best for everyone if (1) this lost at the ballot and (2) immediately thereafter the Charter was amended to clarify whether an initiative (as opposed to referendum) can be used for this type of purpose.
 
BLBow3r03 said:
Found this thread extremely interesting when it was brought up. I had no idea that there were such people who were out to get nationwide arena....

GET THIS....

So today, I started my Spring Semester at CSCC. I am taking 'Intro to American Government'. I did some background on the teacher... typed his name into Google and it seemed as if a million things popped up about himself..... a profound 'politician', author/novelist, agenda engineer on top of being a teacher... one of the head founders of the 'green party'.... well. I went to class today. The first class. He introduced himself and such..... "Any questions?" he asked our class.... out of random, a lady asked, "What is your political background?" .... my teacher replied and seemed to ramble until he suddenly started talking about financial situations around Columbus. He then, AND I QUOTE, "I am head presenter and executive of the initiative ballot proposing to terminate contract with Nationwide Arena and eliminate the Columbus Blue Jackets as a whole." His name? BOB FITRAKIS. He then brought up this article -----> http://columbusfreepress.com/article/nationwide-arena-bailout-illegal-money-laundering-scam ..................... unbelievable. right after the class ended, of course I went straight to the add/withdraw and dropped the class. As a season ticket holder of the CBJ... he not only insulted me but offended me greatly. What a joke of a professor. Wish the 40+ students in the room were all AVID CBJ fans.... what a riot it would have been. To make matters worse, I wore my Blue Jackets hoodie and hat. Again, What a joke of a professor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Fitrakis
http://www.cscc.edu/academics/departments/social-science/faculty/fitrakis.shtml
Click to expand...

Pretty consistent with the Green Party. I would be fascinated to audit his Intro to American History class.

He's not is this to make sure the voters get their day or protect the city from waste.

Kind of funny, fits into the whole "Would make a great park" thing.
 
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That article is one of the most uninformed articles I've ever seen about public financing.

He takes this statement in the ordinance "it is hereby found and determined that all formal actions of this Council concerning and relating to the adoption of this ordinance were adopted in an open meeting of this Council, and that all deliberations of this Council and of any of its committees that resulted in such formal action, were meetings open to the public, in compliance with all legal requirements including Section 121.22 of the Ohio Revised Code," completely out of context.

This is a standard provision acknowledging that the deliberations on the deal were in open meetings which he turns on its head to suddenly be that they are hiding something?

His overly simplistic understanding of restrictions on lending of credit in the State Constitution would undo literally 1000's of conduit bond deals for things such as hospitals, retirement homes, environmental facilities associated with power plants, etc.

He also keeps acting like this is coming out of tax payer wallets...when it isn't. This was a new pot of money that didn't have a use for which it had already been set aside. As I understand it (and I eventually intend to read the financing documents to fully understand it) there is no scenario where taxpayers pay anything. The only revenues used are the casino revenues and shortfalls are dealt with without public funds--i.e. this isn't a general obligation of the public.
 
I think what we need to remember is that the blue jackets,regardless of what happens with this initiative,are out of their bad lease,and can never be made to or will ever be asked to sign a bad lease again.I think this is a non issue frankly in regards to the hockey franchise.The team is very happy with the lease and if the sublease is somehow voided due to a breach/default by the city of columbus payments the cfa will negotiate a similar lease to keep its prime tenant.Ialso believe that the complexity of the agreement,with the state loan in addition to the bonds will make it pretty unlikely that columbus can breach the contract.
 
BLBow3r03 said:
Found this thread extremely interesting when it was brought up. I had no idea that there were such people who were out to get nationwide arena....

GET THIS....

So today, I started my Spring Semester at CSCC. I am taking 'Intro to American Government'. I did some background on the teacher... typed his name into Google and it seemed as if a million things popped up about himself..... a profound 'politician', author/novelist, agenda engineer on top of being a teacher... one of the head founders of the 'green party'.... well. I went to class today. The first class. He introduced himself and such..... "Any questions?" he asked our class.... out of random, a lady asked, "What is your political background?" .... my teacher replied and seemed to ramble until he suddenly started talking about financial situations around Columbus. He then, AND I QUOTE, "I am head presenter and executive of the initiative ballot proposing to terminate contract with Nationwide Arena and eliminate the Columbus Blue Jackets as a whole." His name? BOB FITRAKIS. He then brought up this article -----> http://columbusfreepress.com/article/nationwide-arena-bailout-illegal-money-laundering-scam ..................... unbelievable. right after the class ended, of course I went straight to the add/withdraw and dropped the class. As a season ticket holder of the CBJ... he not only insulted me but offended me greatly. What a joke of a professor. Wish the 40+ students in the room were all AVID CBJ fans.... what a riot it would have been. To make matters worse, I wore my Blue Jackets hoodie and hat. Again, What a joke of a professor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Fitrakis
http://www.cscc.edu/academics/departments/social-science/faculty/fitrakis.shtml
Click to expand...

BLBow3r03 said:
try sitting in a class, having him as your professor, 3 days a week for an hour and a half........ thank goodness for the availability to drop classes.
Click to expand...


Personally, I would file a grievance with the head of the department at CSCC for this @$$hole using the classroom as a forum to push his own political agenda, instead of teaching the 'Intro to American Government' class, that I paid and took time out of my schedule for. I had a similar issue while I was at CSCC, myself and a couple other students brought it to the Head of the Dept's attention and the next week we had a new teacher. You're paying money to learn, not to be preached at by some political jack@$$.

In the case nothing is done, you can always contact NBC4 or ABC6 (On Your Side!) and give them some spotlight :sarcasm:.
 
Sorry for the minor derail in advance...

Just for fun..

How much would a billionaire prospective owner have to plop down to buy the club, get this entire Arena mess sorted?

Roughly, of course.

I know a few Russians and well...OK no I'm just curious. I understand those Forbes worth estimates are totally meaningless.
 
Cbus1979 said:
I think what we need to remember is that the blue jackets,regardless of what happens with this initiative,are out of their bad lease,and can never be made to or will ever be asked to sign a bad lease again.I think this is a non issue frankly in regards to the hockey franchise.The team is very happy with the lease and if the sublease is somehow voided due to a breach/default by the city of columbus payments the cfa will negotiate a similar lease to keep its prime tenant.Ialso believe that the complexity of the agreement,with the state loan in addition to the bonds will make it pretty unlikely that columbus can breach the contract.
Click to expand...

As a lawyer, I think you are being far too trusting.

Reality is that the Jackets and City took for granted that this could become an issue. To the extent the issue was considered at all at the outset (and I'm not sure that it was) they probably figured that no one would ever waste time to get signatures to put this on the ballot. Then they hoped they could find some excuse to keep it off the ballot. That too seems to have failed.

Now they hope that the initiative won't pass. But, in an anti-government, anti-bailout climate, I don't like the odds so well unless someone starts pushing a narrative in favor of the Arena deal. Amazingly, despite organizing to fight the casino, Nationwide and their group doesn't seem to be organizing yet to do that and the clock is ticking.

So, if the initiative succeeds, we'll be left to hope that for some reason its effects are not enforced. Which means a ton of time wasted in court battling over this issue. Giant waste of public funds regardless of the outcome. I've seen enough "slam dunk" wins turn into losses in court on complex commercial deals that I would say nothing is a certainty. We also have no idea what contingencies might be in the documents if for some reason the financing is negatively impacted--in other words, how does the deal unwind, who has the brunt of the risk? What dominoes fall from there.

I think people, as they are want to do, are far to willing to just hope for the best.
 
CapnCornelius said:
I've seen enough "slam dunk" wins turn into losses in court on complex commercial deals that I would say nothing is a certainty. We also have no idea what contingencies might be in the documents if for some reason the financing is negatively impacted--in other words, how does the deal unwind, who has the brunt of the risk? What dominoes fall from there.

I think people, as they are want to do, are far to willing to just hope for the best.
Click to expand...

The McNally/Messersmith decision, although done in arbitration rather than via referendum and court, is a perfect example. Almost no one thought that the MLBPA would win that case, arbitrator Peter Seitz possibly included. He encouraged the two sides to settle it privately repeatedly, and Seitz (70 years old and a longtime baseball fan) may have been sympathetic to the owners' claim that the demise of the reserve system and the opening of free agency could destroy the small markets and cripple competitive balance.

It has, although it took 25 years and a lot of ineptitude on the part of ownership to get to that point. Of course, Seitz decided that although the claim may have merit, it wasn't really relevant to what the reserve clause meant.

[- The text read, with the extremely important part being in bold:]
On or before December 20 (or if a Sunday, then the next preceding business day) in the year of the last playing season covered by the contract, the Club may tender to the Player a contract for the term of that year by mailing the same to the Player at his address following his signature hereto, or if none be given, then at his last address of record with the Club. If prior to the March 1 next succeeding said December 20, the Player and the Club have not agreed upon the terms of such contract, then on or before 10 days after said March 1, the Club shall have the right by written notice to the Player as said address to renew this contract for the period of one year on the same terms, except that the amount payable to the Player shall be such as the Club shall fix in said notice; provided, however, that said amount, if fixed by a Major League Club, shall be an amount payable at a rate not less than 80 percent of the rate stipulated for the next preceding year and at a rate not less than 70 percent of the rate stipulated for the year immediately prior to the next preceding game.5
Click to expand...
 
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