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Confirmed with Link: Muzzin to Toronto for 2019 1st, Grundstrom, and rights to Durzi

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Magnificent Matty said:
You'd rather be lied to? I'd personally prefer the truth over being fed inaccurate fluff just to feel better
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If you want my truth Muzzin is the most overrated dman in the NHL, you can look through my post history I've been saying it forever. Playing him with Doughty somehow convinced people he's a #2 when he is really a #4. Just like Crosby turned a bunch of third liners into first liners by playing with them. I wish Muzzin best in Toronto but the media and fans there are going to eat his bad penalties and defensive brain farts alive.
 
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Tak7 said:
If he gets injured, you move him in the offseason. He still has term. There was no urgency here from LA.

It's a mediocre package that may have gotten better the closer you get to deadline - especially if Carolina ends up moving one of their Dmen for high end talent, establishing the market
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So a you get more for him, waiting in the off season, vs trading him now to a team for a cup run and having another year on his deal.

Also in the West aside form the Kings and Hawks everyone is in it, as you approach the deadline more teams realize they don't have a shot, and the teams like the Ducks who are loaded with load with defensive talent, they could trade a guy like Manson.
The Blues part ways with Pietrangelo or Bouwmester. Canucks have Edler, maybe Tanev.

Next you need to find teams who will be looking for defense.
Preds no
Flames no
Sharks maybe (but do you trade him within division? No)
Vegas yes (but do you trade him within division)
Wild no (they need scoring)
Winnipeg no


Out east

Leafs - Yes
Lightning - No
Columbus - dont think so
Penguins - yes
Caps - no they seem to want more scoring based on rumors
Islanders - no
Bruins- maybe


So if the market suddenly gets flooded with 5 or 6 D-men, you get a better deal for Muzzin?

Maybe there is a bigger reward if you wait, but its kind of like the show Lets Make a Deal, do you keep the living room set you just won or do you go for what is behind the curtain.
If you keep the living room set you already have more than with what you started. Now there could be a new car behind the curtain, or it could be Jay Stewart on a donkey..

I don't see a lot of team A or B got fleeced on these message boards, (and these boards are notorious for calling out what they perceive as a lopsided traded) when that happens it points to a good hockey deal
 
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KingsFan7824 said:
They've also lost out on potentially getting less. Life can get you coming or going. There's always something.

Carolina's d-men are different than Muzzin. It's not the same market. If you're talking Hamilton, he's 4/5 years younger, and a RHD. Pesce, 5/6 years younger, and a RHD. Soon to be 30 year old lefties aren't worth as much.
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I disagree.

There was no urgency to make this deal. Could have waited until deadline.

It's not even necessarily the relative values of Muzzin vs one of Carolina's dmen. If one of them go, you get more desperate teams needing to make a move.
 
100% Muzzin is overrated when it comes to ranking him as a #2 defenseman. He basically only plays as a LHD, so expecting him to push RHD Ron Hainsey down the lineup will be interesting to see if it happens. On the other hand if Muzzin somehow pushes Travis Dermott out of the lineup, I will laugh. He’s only got like 1 goal less than Muzzin and is close in points with way less ice time, quality of line mates and no PP really.
 
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Tak7 said:
I disagree.

There was no urgency to make this deal. Could have waited until deadline.

It's not even necessarily the relative values of Muzzin vs one of Carolina's dmen. If one of them go, you get more desperate teams needing to make a move.
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I think what KF7824 is pointing out is there was a risk either way. And as others have posted, maybe these are the pieces LA wanted, as they're linked to Durzi both by draft position and organization. Maybe Sandin and/or Liljegren were off the table no matter what, as TO is fine for offense but needs defensive reinforcements soonish with Hainsey aging and others not taking steps forward.

If you wait for Carolina to trade a d-man, they set the market for Muzzin AND pull a suitor. I'm not convinced that many teams in the playoff race need a top-pairing LHD. If he were righty I'd agree, but the others that are in line to be traded are 5-6 years younger and relatively cost-controlled as well. I could easily see something around Nylander or Kapanen for Pesce, and I don't think Muzzin has anything to do with that picture.
 
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It’s hard to get excited about a mid to late round 1st, a fringe 2nd liner, and a kid that might not even make it to the nhl. It’s not like forwards come to LA and exceed their offensive expectations either. Oh well, such is the life of a rebuilding team I guess.
 
The return was fine. Could have gotten more, could have gotten less depending on the situation and team.

Grundstrom is like Iafallo right now. Maybe not as good with the puck, but with a better shot. He's quick and extremely good at puck retrieval. He fits right in with the Kempe-Iafallo-Wagner-Leipsic group of guys who play with pace and can be feisty.

Durzi is Clague lite, doesn't have the level of skill or vision Kale has, but has excellent IQ in his own right. He's surrounded by the same type of questions that many players who are supposedly ideal for the "new" NHL, and that's can he be solid enough on defense.

The first is a first. Toronto isn't going to fall out of the playoffs, Buffalo and Carolina aren't good enough to catch them. But they could easily start the first round on the road if they remain sloppy like they have of late.
 
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Tak7 said:
I disagree.

There was no urgency to make this deal. Could have waited until deadline.

It's not even necessarily the relative values of Muzzin vs one of Carolina's dmen. If one of them go, you get more desperate teams needing to make a move.
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??

like don't get me wrong but what do you think muzzin is? a 1st and 2 prospects is a fair payment. are you expecting someone to throw 2+ 1st rounders at us for an aging 2nd pairing defenseman who will be up for a fat contract in a couple years? listen i like muzzin but he's not a 1D
 
Fishhead said:
The first is a first. Toronto isn't going to fall out of the playoffs, Buffalo and Carolina aren't good enough to catch them. But they could easily start the first round on the road if they remain sloppy like they have of late.
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If they get a first round matchup with Boston it will be a first round exit. Toronto is flummoxed by them this season.
 
The market for someone in Muzzin's situation has already been set over basically years of TDL deals, although teams seem a little stingier with the 1st round picks now.

Muzzin is not getting a 1st and a blue chip prospect. I like Muzzin, but this is Jake Muzzin we are talking about. He pulled in a 1st from a team that hasn't won a 1st round series since I don't know when. Then they got a guy that at least looks like a competent 4th liner at worst and possibly a real good 3rd liner or fringe 2nd liner. You still need those type of guys to win hockey games and now the Kings have him and he's cost controlled. They take a flier on the "New NHL" player in Durzi.

The Kings scouting staff did not draft well for several years; however, their only 1st round picks prior to Blake were:

2010: Forbort
2012: Pearson
2014: Kempe

We aren't talking world beaters, but they are all NHL players that have had various levels of success, most notably Pearson at 30th overall.

While nothing is certain with the following dudes, Cernak and Clague were their first picks in 2015 and '16. Vilardi is a wild card due to the injury and Kupari and JAD are promising.

Point being is that they have a history of at least getting an NHL player with that mid-to-late 1st round pick. Some of that can be chalked up to kind of going safe v. going for the home run but, still, if the 1st from TOR and Grundstrom turn out to be useful, cost-controlled NHL players then this is an easy win for a team that is going nowhere for the remainder of Muzzin's contract and won't--and shouldn't--pay him more when he becomes a UFA.

This is what rebuilding teams do. DL traded the Kings leading scorer in Demitra for a 1st and a top prospect. Could of had a better player than Lewis with that pick but this is a guy that was a part of two Cup teams and made some important plays, namely the steal leading to Stoll's OT goal in Game 5 v. Vancouver and the GWG in Game 6 of the Anaheim series. Definitely not a passenger. O'Sullivan was used to acquire a future Conn Smythe winner in Williams. Sure, this is best case scenario stuff but you have to put yourself in a position to do so. It is the whole argument for going with a rebuild v. trying to win with no cap space and a bunch of guys on the downside of their careers.

As for the timing of the trade, just look at Muzzin blocking the shot in Colorado where we all thought he broke his hand. The only guarantee Blake had with this deal is that he knew what he was getting and deemed it to be strong enough. Take it, run with it and advance the tank.
 
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Tak7 said:
I disagree.

There was no urgency to make this deal. Could have waited until deadline.
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Agree, they could have.

It's not even necessarily the relative values of Muzzin vs one of Carolina's dmen. If one of them go, you get more desperate teams needing to make a move.
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Maybe. Maybe Toronto knew what the price was for a Carolina D, and said no, we'll go Muzzin. Maybe there weren't that many teams looking for Muzzin. Maybe those teams are waiting on other guys. Maybe when the cookie crumbles there's one team left looking to get Muzzin, and they can take it or leave it. Maybe you wait until the draft then. Maybe you wait until the 2020 deadline.

It's not a great get. It's a late 2nd rd pick from 3 years ago, a guy that wasn't drafted when he was 18, and a probable bottom 8 pick in the 1st rd assuming things go the Leafs way. Is there a better deal at 2:59pm on Feb 25th? It's possible.
 
Before last draft, I happened to find this article about using AI/Analytics to find sleepers. This particular firm claims they had Durzi as a top 40 pick in the 2017 Draft when he went undrafted: How AI is helping sports teams scout star players

I would have thought Muzzin would fetch a higher profile prospect than Grundstrom/Durzi, but the deal is relatively close to what Ryan McDonagh fetched last year (Howden/Hajek/1st/conditional 2nd).
 
Best of Luck to Muffins...he is going to team with lots of potential and on the upswing. His experience is exactly what they need for a deep run and those clutch situations, OT, etc, in the playoffs.

Nice return for the Kings. Grundstrom should be a terrific addition
 
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tny760 said:
??

like don't get me wrong but what do you think muzzin is? a 1st and 2 prospects is a fair payment. are you expecting someone to throw 2+ 1st rounders at us for an aging 2nd pairing defenseman who will be up for a fat contract in a couple years? listen i like muzzin but he's not a 1D
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The Kings initial ask was a 1st + an A-level prospect
 
KingsFan7824 said:
Agree, they could have.



Maybe. Maybe Toronto knew what the price was for a Carolina D, and said no, we'll go Muzzin. Maybe there weren't that many teams looking for Muzzin. Maybe those teams are waiting on other guys. Maybe when the cookie crumbles there's one team left looking to get Muzzin, and they can take it or leave it. Maybe you wait until the draft then. Maybe you wait until the 2020 deadline.

It's not a great get. It's a late 2nd rd pick from 3 years ago, a guy that wasn't drafted when he was 18, and a probable bottom 8 pick in the 1st rd assuming things go the Leafs way. Is there a better deal at 2:59pm on Feb 25th? It's possible.
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I think at some point it is more about the hierarchy of where he was rated in the Toronto system and what his NHL potential is now compared to where he was drafted

There are guys drafted before him that have done less and have less value.

If there is 1 thing the Leafs seem to be good at its drafting forwards
 
Gonna miss Muzzin, he was criminally underrated around here. He had his funks but he is a very good player. When he is confident he´s such a pleasure to watch and he´s a playoff performer too. Gonna be interesting to see him handle Toronto. If things go bad they might go real bad, with that type of pressure and expectations. They seem to think playing him on the right side will be no problem. I hope for their sake they´re right, because I can´t remember him ever doing it with the Kings.

As for the return, it is what can be expected. Teams don´t really give up top prospects anymore, young players are too valuable. So a handful of B type assets and not getting any salary back is pretty good all things considered.
 
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