Proposal: MTL & STL

[jfhabs]

Look how dogmatic your responses are, giving your opinion as if it's a fact

There's merit to the trade for both sides, otherwise I wouldn't have proposed it

I think it's a thread that would need to be revisited closer to TDL. Doesn't make sense as a summer deal and even less on this hockey forum. None of the piece coming from Montreal are as sexy as a former first rounder doing well in the Q (shiny new toy). It's summer afterall, season of hopes. Every team will sign the best available UFA, sign their RFA on the cheap side and trade for the best available player.

Quality depth is a lot more sexy come TDL and mostly in GMs eyes.

 

[McJedi]

Maybe you should avoid montreal thread that doesn't involve your team. Might be good for your health and everyone's

But I enjoy pointing out the perpetual absurdity of the majority of Habs proposals. It could be a drinking game as there are so many Habs “rip your face off” proposals at HF.

And I don’t like the Blues even a little bit. I’d be happy if they did this stupid deal because it makes St Louis worse and hurts their franchise in the short and long term. It’s awful for them.

But the principle of equity doesn’t allow it.

 

[jfhabs]

But I enjoy pointing out the perpetual absurdity of the majority of Habs proposals.

I don’t even like the Blues even a little bit. I’d be happy if they did this stupid deal because it makes St Louis worse.

But the principle of equity doesn’t allow it.

Weren't you the one saying Chiarot was worth a 3rd, we'd be lucky to get 2nd in every thread he was mentioned?

 

[McJedi]

Weren't you the one saying Chiarot was worth a 3rd, we'd be lucky to get 2nd in every thread he was mentioned?

Nope. I said chiarot would get a first at 50% retained. Said it many times. I also knew Lex would fetch a great haul. I really liked him as a player.

Kulak surprised me some I will admit. You guys said he was pretty good. He’s not but he’s better than I realized. I thought he’d only fetch a mid rounder. Maybe a late 3rd.

But I had Chiarot pegged exactly what he was traded for.

I’ve also said Droiun, Price and the many other awful Habs proposals were absurd.

I think Josh Andserson has some value. I felt Toffoli did as well and wasn’t surprised at all he netted a 1st. Romanov. Also valuable.

Arima. No value. Savard. No value. Evans, tiny value. Phoeling. No value.

Petry. Little to no value.

 

[MissouriMook]

Going up to the Montreal fanbase, who watches the Q more than anyone else and arguing that Bolduc in fact had a better season and is a better prospect than Joshua Roy, who is younger, finished ahead of Bolduc in both points and in QMJHL All Star voting is an interesting take. He's a good prospect, but your sell is WAY too hard given what he's actually done.

I get that St. Louis wouldn't want to do it, but it makes no sense for Montreal either.

Holy overreaction, Batman! At no point did I even imply that Bolduc was better than Roy or had a better season. My problem was with your original post characterizing Bolduc as some sort of a consolation prize based on (your words) having a worse season than Roy, and in particular suggesting that he should be fair game for a team looking to upgrade their D to <checks notes> Joel Edmundson. He was drafted 17th overall last season and would probably be Top 10 in a re-draft given his progress. Would you trade away a 10th overall pick (or any 1st round pick) with Joel Edmundson as the main piece coming back? It had nothing to do with the quality of YOUR prospect and everything to do with the underrating of Bolduc, particularly in this context.

Having said all that, put yourself in Doug Armstrong's shoes and explain, if you would be so kind, how trading away the organization's best prospect for a bottom 6 forward and a modest upgrade on D (let's face it, in the Blues' lineup these two guys are probably a 4th line forward and a 3rd pairing D) makes any sense for a team that could legitimately be 1 piece away from being a Cup contender. I think Habs fans are just too focused on balancing (perceived) value and not enough on why the Blues would do this given their needs and their prospect capital.

 

[jfhabs]

Nope. I said chiarot would get a first at 50% retained. Said it many times. I also knew Lex would fetch a great haul. I really liked him as a player.

Kulak surprised me some I will admit. You guys said he was pretty good. He’s not but he’s better than I realized. I thought he’d only fetch a mid rounder. Maybe a late 3rd.

But I had Chiarot pegged exactly what he was traded for.

I’ve also said Droiun, Price and the many other awful Habs proposals were absurd.

I think Josh Andserson has some value. I felt Toffoli did as well and wasn’t surprised at all he netted a 1st. Romanov. Also valuable.

Arima. No value. Savard. No value. Evans, tiny value. Phoeling. No value.

Petry. Little to no value.

Proposal: - Habs & Panthers + Blues

Since the Habs are hosting the Draft let's try to get some more picks and forget about this year. Habs : Chariot + Poehling + 4rd 2022 for Panther : first pick 2023 + 3rd 2022 Habs : Armia + 2rd 2024 for Blues : First pick 2022

hfboards.mandatory.com

Props to the guy who called Panthers 2023 1st + 3rd.

You said late 2nd like the 59th pcik in 2022...

 

[Captain Mountain]

Holy overreaction, Batman! At no point did I even imply that Bolduc was better than Roy or had a better season. My problem was with your original post characterizing Bolduc as some sort of a consolation prize based on (your words) having a worse season than Roy, and in particular suggesting that he should be fair game for a team looking to upgrade their D to <checks notes> Joel Edmundson. He was drafted 17th overall last season and would probably be Top 10 in a re-draft given his progress. Would you trade away a 10th overall pick (or any 1st round pick) with Joel Edmundson as the main piece coming back? It had nothing to do with the quality of YOUR prospect and everything to do with the underrating of Bolduc, particularly in this context.

Having said all that, put yourself in Doug Armstrong's shoes and explain, if you would be so kind, how trading away the organization's best prospect for a bottom 6 forward and a modest upgrade on D (let's face it, in the Blues' lineup these two guys are probably a 4th line forward and a 3rd pairing D) makes any sense for a team that could legitimately be 1 piece away from being a Cup contender. I think Habs fans are just too focused on balancing (perceived) value and not enough on why the Blues would do this given their needs and their prospect capital.

I'm not going to go into the prospect ranking beyond every fanbase generally ranks their prospects higher than most.

I don't think I once mentioned it was a good deal for St. Louis, just that it wasn't good for Montreal.

My point was that Montreal taking on Scandella, eating 50% of Edmundson's contract for two years (and the subsequent downgrade there, which is honestly not a modest downgrade given Montreal's experience with both players) and giving up Evans for Bolduc doesn't make a ton of sense for them. Montreal is still in cap clean-up mode and Bolduc doesn't represent some insane opportunity given who else they have in their system and the picks they possess. So unless they really like Bolduc, Montreal's better of just sticking with what they have.

 

[HuGo Sham]

Holy overreaction, Batman! At no point did I even imply that Bolduc was better than Roy or had a better season. My problem was with your original post characterizing Bolduc as some sort of a consolation prize based on (your words) having a worse season than Roy, and in particular suggesting that he should be fair game for a team looking to upgrade their D to <checks notes> Joel Edmundson. He was drafted 17th overall last season and would probably be Top 10 in a re-draft given his progress. Would you trade away a 10th overall pick (or any 1st round pick) with Joel Edmundson as the main piece coming back? It had nothing to do with the quality of YOUR prospect and everything to do with the underrating of Bolduc, particularly in this context.

Having said all that, put yourself in Doug Armstrong's shoes and explain, if you would be so kind, how trading away the organization's best prospect for a bottom 6 forward and a modest upgrade on D (let's face it, in the Blues' lineup these two guys are probably a 4th line forward and a 3rd pairing D) makes any sense for a team that could legitimately be 1 piece away from being a Cup contender. I think Habs fans are just too focused on balancing (perceived) value and not enough on why the Blues would do this given their needs and their prospect capital.

WOW. where does Roy go then? 5OA?

 

[HuGo Sham]

Proposal: - Habs & Panthers + Blues

Since the Habs are hosting the Draft let's try to get some more picks and forget about this year. Habs : Chariot + Poehling + 4rd 2022 for Panther : first pick 2023 + 3rd 2022 Habs : Armia + 2rd 2024 for Blues : First pick 2022

hfboards.mandatory.com

Props to the guy who called Panthers 2023 1st + 3rd.

You said late 2nd like the 59th pcik in 2022...

so in other words, he just lied?

"What a joke. A bottom pair defender and an AHL nobody, wasted draft pick in Poehling for a 1st and 3rd? How truly delusional. Never change certain Habs fans.

Poehling continues to carry zero value while Chariot is maybe worth a 3rd at the deadline."

I love when these threads are found. Nice digging. I'll stick around for the inevitable doubling down

 

[PocketNines]

Doug Armstrong is on the record in the last few days saying the Blues have fierce internal debates whether Bolduc or Neighbors is the organization's top prospect. If you think the Blues are shipping out their possibly top prospect for Jake Evans and whatever the negligible, approaching-zero difference between Edmundson (a sometimes healthy scratch during the Cup run) and Scandella then you're not attempting to design a real trade.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

I hate these trades just to get a "Quebecois" bloody hell.

Agreed. These are the most annoying traded from a Habs perspective. Habs fans need to get over the Québécois pipedream. If you stack a team with francophones you will never compete.

 

[pth2]

so in other words, he just lied?

"What a joke. A bottom pair defender and an AHL nobody, wasted draft pick in Poehling for a 1st and 3rd? How truly delusional. Never change certain Habs fans.

Poehling continues to carry zero value while Chariot is maybe worth a 3rd at the deadline."

I love when these threads are found. Nice digging. I'll stick around for the inevitable doubling down

Why aren't we all just blocking this liar ?

 

[Twisted Sinister]

so in other words, he just lied?

"What a joke. A bottom pair defender and an AHL nobody, wasted draft pick in Poehling for a 1st and 3rd? How truly delusional. Never change certain Habs fans.

Poehling continues to carry zero value while Chariot is maybe worth a 3rd at the deadline."

I love when these threads are found. Nice digging. I'll stick around for the inevitable doubling down

Yeouch, busted

 

[TK 421]

Maybe you should avoid montreal thread that doesn't involve your team. Might be good for your health and everyone's

Nah he's right, it's garbage for Stl.

 

[ole ole]

Weren't you the one saying Chiarot was worth a 3rd, we'd be lucky to get 2nd in every thread he was mentioned?

Good one .

 

[HuGo Sham]

Why aren't we all just blocking this liar ?

his takes on habs trades are as disingenuous and disproportionate as some of the offers themselves

 

[BlueSeal]

*laughs in French*

 

[McJedi]

Proposal: - Habs & Panthers + Blues

Since the Habs are hosting the Draft let's try to get some more picks and forget about this year. Habs : Chariot + Poehling + 4rd 2022 for Panther : first pick 2023 + 3rd 2022 Habs : Armia + 2rd 2024 for Blues : First pick 2022

hfboards.mandatory.com

Props to the guy who called Panthers 2023 1st + 3rd.

You said late 2nd like the 59th pcik in 2022...

Several times I said at 50% retention, I could see him fetching a first. I wasn’t surprised at all when he went for a first. He was a rental. Low AAV. Big D man. Those guys do fine at the TDL. Savard went for a 1st the year before.

I think Habs can move Edmondson for a nice pick at the TDL in 2024 when he’s a rental. But his value today is really low this year and I really doubt the Habs want to retain over two years.

It’s your Habs players with term that lack value. Petry being foremost. If Petry were in the last year of his deal and Habs retained 50%. I have no doubt Habs would get a first and another +.

Shoot, even Drouin @ 50% will have value this season. And Habs can retain because he’s a rental and that retention slot doesn’t roll into next season.

 

[jfhabs]

Several times I said at 50% retention, I could see him fetching a first. I wasn’t surprised at all when he went for a first. He was a rental. Low AAV. Big D man. Those guys do fine at the TDL. Savard went for a 1st the year before.

I think Habs can move Edmondson for a nice pick at the TDL in 2024 when he’s a rental. But his value today is really low this year and I really doubt the Habs want to retain over two years.

It’s your Habs players with term that lack value. Petry being foremost. If Petry were in the last year of his deal and Habs retained 50%. I have no doubt Habs would get a first and another +.

Shoot, even Drouin @ 50% will have value this season. And Habs can retain because he’s a rental and that retention slot doesn’t roll into next season.

I guess you started saying that after well established reports said he was getting a first for sure. You're flipping left and right.

If we're retaining 50% on Edmundson. He's easily worth a first right now and a plus comes TDL. Not saying the Blues should trade for him, but if he's available, he'll be a fit somewhere.

 

[McJedi]

I guess you started saying that after well established reports said he was getting a first for sure. You're flipping left and right.

If we're retaining 50% on Edmundson. He's easily worth a first right now and a plus comes TDL. Not saying the Blues should trade for him, but if he's available, he'll be a fit somewhere.

I don’t think the Habs would retain over two seasons. Those retention slots are pretty valuable for a team in their shoes.

I’ve never believed in the proposals that have long retention windows, esp on nobody players like Edmondson. You just don’t see many trades where some bottom pair guy making bottom pair money is traded with retention with multiple years left on the contract. Can you think of a few examples. I can’t.

I can think of examples like Chiarot getting a late first of Manson getting a 2nd and a decent prospect. Savard just the year prior is a comp for Chiarot. I’d rather have Chiarot over Savard.

I wasn’t sure what Chiarot was worth but a late first seemed attainable with retention. So I wasn’t one of the fans saying never. I wasn’t the least bit surprised what he fetched.

I’ll be stunned if you trade Petry with no retention for a first. Absolutely stunned. But that isn’t going to happen.

 

[Karl Eriksson]

Army doesn't do these kinds of deals. Wouldn't happen.

Bad deals? Yeah, he should not.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

..."I wasn't lying...I just found the truth later..."...

 

[Scintillating10]

Montreal <-- Bolduc, Scandella

St. Louis <-- Evans, Edmundson (50% ret.)


Habs get a C prospect from Quebec who was taken 17th in the 2021 draft, and a veteran LD and Montreal native who may be needed in a leadership role during the rebuild if Petry and Savard are dealt

Blues land a versatile bottom 6 forward signed long term on a team-friendly deal, and a top 4 LD in Edmundson at half his cap hit. They also shed the final 2 years of Scandella's deal

I say no for Habs. Montreal can get a Chiarot type return for Eddie at deadline. Evans is decent center young and cheap

 

[BleedBlue14]

After seeing Leddys impact with STL I’d hope we as a fan base can give up on the idea that the Blues need a big physical d man to pair with Parayko.

He needs a reliable puck mover, his strengths are defensively and being capable of moving the puck. Not being the primary puck mover.

This trade would be appealing for the Blues to upgrade their depth. Eddy is more of a 4/5 and we need an upper end LD to eat minutes. Trading one of our better prospects for this at this point in time seems very silly.

There is value to the proposal yes. But depth has not been STL issue for the most part. At least on the forward group.

That being said. Would be fairly comfortable moving this years first in a deal like this instead of Bolduc. Bolduc probably fits the timeline of where we need to take some serious looks at youth entering the lineup in bigger roles

 

[Baksfamous112]

No thanks. Rather keep Eddy as a veteran on the team.