Proposal: MTL & NJ

[Xirik]

Now he went to court for that. What was the sentence ruling?

The Devils had two of the players from the Canadian World Juniors scandal in their organization. no matter if he's sorry or served his sentence the Devils wouldn't trade for Mailloux

 

[Wayfarer13]

I’m sure he’s an excellent player. Hopefully he feels remorse for his past criminal activity but NJ doesn’t need to add a player with that sort of baggage.

Would you have taken Patrick Kane on your team?

 

[My3Sons]

You ok? You really shouldn’t let internet comments upset you to this extent, especially when they aren’t even directed at you. My advice is to just ignore it next time something online upsets you. Cheers.

I’m not upset. We just all know how the passive aggressive insults go when someone doesn’t like an offer on a player one way or the other. None of it is worthwhile discussion. Besides that it’s obvious you were upset since you had to resort to to name calling on Nemec. Take your own advice.

 

[HuGort]

MTL : Logan Mailloux/CGY first + Micheal Hage
for
NJ : Simon Nemec, Not sure about his value atm.

Nemec seems to have a hard time making the team atm.
Nemec would sure make the team in MTL right now with is buddy Slaf.
Micheal Hage is a great piece here and Mailloux has good potential as well.
CGY first should be a mid first pick.

No way not trading Hage. We have enough youth on Blueline. Especially if we draft Hensler or Fiddler. Need experience. Draft Flames back their pick for Andersson. It's a fair deal, pick be around 15.

 

[Garbageyuk]

I’m not upset.

Could’ve fooled me.

None of it is worthwhile discussion.

Yet, here you are, interjecting just to loudly disagree in a whiny, long winded fashion. Seems like it is worthwhile for you.

Besides that it’s obvious you were upset since you had to resort to to name calling on Nemec.

Where did I “name call” Nemec?

Take your own advice.

You quoted me, in case you forgot. Never heard of you before this. Again, if someone’s comment is upsetting for you, and it has nothing to do with you, you can just ignore it, instead of starting petty squabbles.

Have a good night.

 

[My3Sons]

Would you have taken Patrick Kane on your team?

If he’s facing charges or under current investigation I’d pass. It’s just not worthwhile given what happened with McLeod. It’s not a great situation. The McLeod rumors hung around for over a year. The team did what it could to ignore them but the fans were aware.

 

[Wayfarer13]

If he’s facing charges or under current investigation I’d pass. It’s just not worthwhile given what happened with McLeod. It’s not a great situation. The McLeod rumors hung around for over a year. The team did what it could to ignore them but the fans were aware.

His legal issues have been settled and not facing any charges like Mailloux's

 

[mlzy]

I mean, he’s a recent 1st round pick who stock has only increased since the draft, not sure what you were hoping to prove with this comment.

Nemec’s stock on the other hand, has only dropped, much like Ryan Murray’s did.

So a players stock decreases because the team they play for is just to deep at that position? Nemos stock is just fine!

 

[GCK]

MTL : Logan Mailloux/CGY first + Micheal Hage
for
NJ : Simon Nemec, Not sure about his value atm.

Nemec seems to have a hard time making the team atm.
Nemec would sure make the team in MTL right now with is buddy Slaf.
Micheal Hage is a great piece here and Mailloux has good potential as well.
CGY first should be a mid first pick.

If I was NJD I’d pull the trigger

 

[TBF1972]

Nemec just hasn't established himself enough in the NHL at this point to garner such a return from a rebuilding team . Mailloux still has a chance , however slim of having the better career of the two and if you think Hage reaches his potential that's a minimum of a top six center and there's no telling what that first can be turned into . Just too much risk for the Habs right now , Devils probably pass as well .

so nemec hasn't done enough.

as a devils fans i look at the thing from the opposite site. mailloux is a no-go for his past and current level of play as a main piece in trade for nemec. i don't want him at all. keep him. the calgary first is a complete unknown and hage has talent. he was considered by some of the devils prospect evaluators as a potential pick at #10 for the devils. but the pieces offered here are way less established than nemec.

so calling a 20 year old defenseman not established enough is kind of comical. he is years away from his prime and could become a rare #1 d. a true two way player. not like dougie hamilton, who needs the right partner to look competent in one aspect of the game.

 

[dirtydanglez]

Now he went to court for that. What was the sentence ruling?

guilty

 

[cwede]

NJ wouldn;t be so dumb as to trade Nemec

and no way a NY area team brings in Mailloux, here is NOT the place to escape your past

 

[AfroThunder396]

No one expected Mailloux to be in MTL full time this year. Nemec, on the other hand, was supposed to be a lock for NJ’s top-4, if not top pairing. Meanwhile, he’s getting healthy scratched and lost his roster spot to Jonathan Kovacevic, who MTL shipped out for a 4th round pick.

You say this as if it's a burn on Nemec and not for MTL, who missed out on an obviously talented defender in order to overplay rookie defensemen that are clearly not ready and have them get lit up every night.

ES goals against per game:
Mailloux 2.0
Matheson 1.25
Hutson 1.167
Savard 1.0
Xhekaj 1.0
Struble 1.0
Barron 0.875
Guhle 0.857
Kovacevic 0.667
Nemec 0.444

Kovacevic is a legitimately good defenseman that your GM gave away for free. That is a fact. MTL is the 2nd worst defensive team in the league you should not be bragging about the performance of any defender on that roster.

Nemec is the youngest defenseman in the NHL currently on a teams' roster right now, one day younger than Lane Hutson and and 14 months younger than Mailloux. Nobody on the planet was expecting Nemec to outplay DOUGIE HAMILTON and BRETT PESCE. Get a clue.

But hey man, I'm sure those head fakes that Lane Hutson does at the blueline while you lose 6-2 every game are really fun to watch. Have fun with that.

 

[dgibb10]

You say this as if it's a burn on Nemec and not for MTL, who missed out on an obviously talented defender in order to overplay rookie defensemen that are clearly not ready and have them get lit up every night.

ES goals against per game:
Mailloux 2.0
Matheson 1.25
Hutson 1.167
Savard 1.0
Xhekaj 1.0
Struble 1.0
Barron 0.875
Guhle 0.857
Kovacevic 0.667
Nemec 0.444

Kovacevic is a legitimately good defenseman that your GM gave away for free. That is a fact. MTL is the 2nd worst defensive team in the league you should not be bragging about the performance of any defender on that roster.

Nemec is the youngest defenseman in the NHL currently on a teams' roster right now, one day younger than Lane Hutson and and 14 months younger than Mailloux. Nobody on the planet was expecting Nemec to outplay DOUGIE HAMILTON and BRETT PESCE. Get a clue.

But hey man, I'm sure those head fakes that Lane Hutson does at the blueline while you lose 6-2 every game are really fun to watch. Have fun with that.

Hey, that's wrong.

MTL isn't the 2nd worst defensive team. They are THE worst, by far.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

You can’t; that’s why. I’ll bring up each line/assertion for everyone to see then, since you want to double down on your BS.

I said the Devils underachieved and missed the playoffs last year. That’s a fact.

I said Nemec is watching games from the press box right now. That’s a fact.

I said that Kovacevic is currently playing in the Devil’s top-4, after being shipped out of MTL for nothing. That’s a fact.

I said Mailloux’s stock has risen from 31st in his draft class. That’s a fact.

I said Nemec’s stock has fallen from 2nd overall in his draft class. That’s a fact.

I said there’s a difference in expectations between a 2nd overall pick and a 31st overall pick. That’s a fact.

I said that Nemec and Mailloux are both in the same boat currently, i.e., not good enough to play with the big club. That’s a fact.

Which of the above facts do you disagree with? Explain.

I'll take a shot at explaining it to you.

Devils underachieved and missed the playoffs last year. That’s a fact. This was largely due to injuries to core pieces and poor goaltending. Not the play of Nemec

Nemec is watching games from the press box right now. He has played 9 of 14 games so far this season and the team just got back 2 players Hughes/Pesce from injury so someone needed to come out

Kovacevic is currently playing in the Devil’s top-4, after being shipped out of MTL for nothing. That’s a fact. He's been playing quite well for the Devils to start the season, but it's probably not sustainable and he's a UFA so they'd be wise to keep their depth

Mailloux’s stock has risen from 31st in his draft class. That’s a fact. Feel free to post your draft board to show where he'd be ranked right now, I see him right around the same spot, maybe a slight increase from 31 to maybe 25.

Nemec’s stock has fallen from 2nd overall in his draft class. That’s a fact. Again show your work, which 24 players have passed him to drop him down to Mailloux's level. I still have him in the top 3 with Slaf staying ahead and Cooley passing him.


there’s a difference in expectations between a 2nd overall pick and a 31st overall pick. That’s a fact. This is true but Nemec hasn't just played in the 69 NHL already and looked pretty good most night whereas Mailloux has played in 6 NHL games despite being over a full year older. I'd say Nemec has lived up to expectations of a 2nd overall selection.

Nemec and Mailloux are both in the same boat currently, i.e., not good enough to play with the big club. This isn't a fact at all, Nemec will get back in to the lineup sooner than later the same can't be said for Mailloux

You've listed some things that are true but without any context, and you've stated your opinion as fact. The Devils aren't likely trading Nemec and if they do, it won't be for prospect that's older and well behind his level.

 

[HBK27]

No one expected Mailloux to be in MTL full time this year. Nemec, on the other hand, was supposed to be a lock for NJ’s top-4, if not top pairing. Meanwhile, he’s getting healthy scratched and lost his roster spot to Jonathan Kovacevic, who MTL shipped out for a 4th round pick.

This is beyond clueless...Hamilton and Pesce were always going to be the top 2 RD on the Devils this season.

Most thought Nemec would be the #3 RD, but injuries opened up an opportunity for Kovacevic and he's run with it. In all fairness, Nemec has struggled a bit this season as well (many think due in large part to an injury he sustained right before the start of the season), though he's also the youngest defenceman in the league so we can cut him some slack.

This is more a matter of Kovacevic taking advantage of an opportunity and playing really, really well to earn a spot in the lineup versus Nemec struggling and needing to be replaced by a guy that only cost a 4th round pick. We'll see if Kovacevic can keep up this level of play, but right now he certainly deserves to be in there and what he fetched last season from Montreal is irrelevant.

I don't think Nemec is untouchable, especially with Casey in the pipeline, but I can't see him being moved at all this season and if he was, it wouldn't be for futures - maybe a young, established player that can jump in at 3C as that's where NJ is really lacking in depth.

 

[Baksfamous112]

Guy that doesn’t understand anything, hasn’t watched a single Devils game all year, didn’t watch any last year voice: Let me tell you about your team

You’re 14 games in. We’ve watched the guy for two full year. He’s a steady #6. If that guy is anywhere near your top 4 you’ll have a hard time making the playoff. That’s a fact.

He's avoided Kovacevic being a top shutdown defenseman in the league three times now. At this point it time to call his posts a "defensive coping" reaction.

The same Kovacevic that was in and out of Habs line-up for two years? A top shutdown defenseman? Lmao.

You had very little credibility to start with. Now you’re at 0.

 

[dgibb10]

You’re 14 games in. We’ve watched the guy for two full year. He’s a steady #6. If that guy is anywhere near your top 4 you’ll have a hard time making the playoff. That’s a fact.

The same Kovacevic that was in and out of Habs line-up for two years? A top shutdown defenseman? Lmao.

You had very little credibility to start with. Now you’re at 0.

He has objectively been excellent to start this year.

61.3% xGoals share. Good for 10th in the league among dmen so far. Giving up just 1.6 xGoals/60 (for context, the best dman on MTL in that category this year is justin barron at 3.11 xGoals/60 against, (so giving up TWICE as much).

And a better share than any MTL dman has put up in a season since 2007.

Will he keep it up. Unlikely.
Has he been excellent. Yes.

And how he has played so far this season is why he is in the lineup instead of Nemec.

 

[Devils731]

The same Kovacevic that was in and out of Habs line-up for two years? A top shutdown defenseman? Lmao.

You had very little credibility to start with. Now you’re at 0.

His play may fall off a cliff starting tonight but that’s how his play has been this year.

The discussion is relevant because nobody would take a guy playing like that out of the lineup, even if he’s likely playing way over his head currently.

 

[Xirik]

You’re 14 games in. We’ve watched the guy for two full year. He’s a steady #6. If that guy is anywhere near your top 4 you’ll have a hard time making the playoff. That’s a fact.

The same Kovacevic that was in and out of Habs line-up for two years? A top shutdown defenseman? Lmao.

You had very little credibility to start with. Now you’re at 0.

The Hab's line-up that is one of the worst defensive teams in the NHL?

Stats don't lie. He's doing great so far this season. Better then he ever did in Montreal. Will he continue to be such a great player? who knows, But he definitely had more value then the Hab's got for him.

 

[Baksfamous112]

I'll take a shot at explaining it to you.

Devils underachieved and missed the playoffs last year. That’s a fact. This was largely due to injuries to core pieces and poor goaltending. Not the play of Nemec

Nemec is watching games from the press box right now. He has played 9 of 14 games so far this season and the team just got back 2 players Hughes/Pesce from injury so someone needed to come out

Kovacevic is currently playing in the Devil’s top-4, after being shipped out of MTL for nothing. That’s a fact. He's been playing quite well for the Devils to start the season, but it's probably not sustainable and he's a UFA so they'd be wise to keep their depth

Mailloux’s stock has risen from 31st in his draft class. That’s a fact. Feel free to post your draft board to show where he'd be ranked right now, I see him right around the same spot, maybe a slight increase from 31 to maybe 25.

Nemec’s stock has fallen from 2nd overall in his draft class. That’s a fact. Again show your work, which 24 players have passed him to drop him down to Mailloux's level. I still have him in the top 3 with Slaf and Cooley passing him.


there’s a difference in expectations between a 2nd overall pick and a 31st overall pick. That’s a fact. This is true but Nemec hasn't just played in the 69 NHL already and looked pretty good most night whereas Mailloux has played in 6 NHL games despite being over a full year older. I'd say Nemec has lived up to expectations of a 2nd overall selection.

Nemec and Mailloux are both in the same boat currently, i.e., not good enough to play with the big club. This isn't a fact at all, Nemec will get back in to the lineup sooner than later the same can't be said for Mailloux

You've listed some things that are true but without any context, and you've stated your opinion as fact. The Devils aren't likely trading Nemec and if they do, it won't be for prospect that's older and well behind his level.

The only issue I have with Nemec is the same issue I’m having with Jiricek. They both should be playing in the AHL right now.

I don’t think being caved in night in night out and playing very limited role and minutes is good for a 20 years old developing.

You can see flashes of what is to come for Nemec. Same with Mailloux. Flashes here and there but still playing timid with and without the puck, hence why he was sent down despite providing a bit of offense to a team that needs it. As soon as Mailloux was sent down, he started dominating the A once again. That’s what you want to see and that’s how you develop a young D.

Clarke is a good example. He could’ve played the whole year in L.A last year but he was not ready and it showed in his play - too often to keep him up. Now, he’s playing with confidence and it shows on the ice.

19-20-21 is very young for a D to have a clear impact on a game. Very few are able to do at that age and I rather see these young players in the AHL until they are playing a mature game with and without the puck.

This is beyond clueless...Hamilton and Pesce were always going to be the top 2 RD on the Devils this season.

Most thought Nemec would be the #3 RD, but injuries opened up an opportunity for Kovacevic and he's run with it. In all fairness, Nemec has struggled a bit this season as well (many think due in large part to an injury he sustained right before the start of the season), though he's also the youngest defenceman in the league so we can cut him some slack.

This is more a matter of Kovacevic taking advantage of an opportunity and playing really, really well to earn a spot in the lineup versus Nemec struggling and needing to be replaced by a guy that only cost a 4th round pick. We'll see if Kovacevic can keep up this level of play, but right now he certainly deserves to be in there and what he fetched last season from Montreal is irrelevant.

I don't think Nemec is untouchable, especially with Casey in the pipeline, but I can't see him being moved at all this season and if he was, it wouldn't be for futures - maybe a young, established player that can jump in at 3C as that's where NJ is really lacking in depth.

That’s wrong. Most Devils fans in this thread said last year that Nemec was by far their best D and how he was already playing like a #1 D (hint hint at those who’s saying the same about Kovacevic right now).

Nemec should not be traded. It’s way too hard to find a consistant top 4 RHD that you NEED to keep them when you have one on your team/pipeline.

Hamilton is already showing signs of slowing down. Pesce is almost 30 and also already showed signs of slowing down in Carolina. Kovacevic is nothing more than a good #6 who had a good start. Don’t fool yourself into thinking your right side is covered for a decade because things move fast in this league. By the time Nemec hit his stride and play a mature game both Pesce and Hamilton will likely already be washed up and shell of themselves and you’ll be happy you held on Nemec and Casey

 

[Baksfamous112]

He has objectively been excellent to start this year.

61.3% xGoals share. Good for 10th in the league among dmen so far. Giving up just 1.6 xGoals/60 (for context, the best dman on MTL in that category this year is justin barron at 3.11 xGoals/60 against, (so giving up TWICE as much).

And a better share than any MTL dman has put up in a season since 2007.

Will he keep it up. Unlikely.
Has he been excellent. Yes.

And how he has played so far this season is why he is in the lineup instead of Nemec.

The bolded is all that matters. He will regress eventually. You can’t act like this guy is going to keep up this play forever and be a top 4 D for NJ

His play may fall off a cliff starting tonight but that’s how his play has been this year.

The discussion is relevant because nobody would take a guy playing like that out of the lineup, even if he’s likely playing way over his head currently.

Never said that’s what needed to be done. On the contrary, I think Nemec should be in the AHL right now

The Hab's line-up that is one of the worst defensive teams in the NHL?

Stats don't lie. He's doing great so far this season. Better then he ever did in Montreal. Will he continue to be such a great player? who knows, But he definitely had more value then the Hab's got for him.

Bingo. It’s as if the team/teammates you’re playing with have a role to play in a player advanced stats. A very solid player can have abyssal stats because the team he’s playing for is constantly getting caved in.

On the flip side, playing on a more mature and « ready to compete » team can magically make you a stats darling. The funny part is you send Kovacevic to Anaheim, Montreal or San Jose and all of a sudden his stats doesn’t look so good anymore.

And yes, he was a healthy scratch for ~20% of the games on a very bad Habs team.

 

[dgibb10]

The bolded is all that matters. He will regress eventually. You can’t act like this guy is going to keep up this play forever and be a top 4 D for NJ

Never said that’s what needed to be done. On the contrary, I think Nemec should be in the AHL right now

Bingo. It’s as if the team/teammates you’re playing with have a role to play in a player advanced stats. A very solid player can have abyssal stats because the team he’s playing for is constantly getting caved in.

On the flip side, playing on a more mature and « ready to compete » team can magically make you a stats darling. The funny part is you send Kovacevic to Anaheim, Montreal or San Jose and all of a sudden his stats doesn’t look so good anymore.

And yes, he was a healthy scratch for ~20% of the games on a very bad Habs team.

Yes, I agree.

Hence why Nemec should not be moved.

Nemec should at this point get in as a 7D with both bastian and lazar hurt on the west coast road trip, and then either be moved to the AHL for ice time or brought back into the lineup.

If Kovacevic does keep this up for long enough, imo I'd even sell him at the deadline to potentially go after a 4C and a winger for Jack and Bratt while preserving futures (I was somewhat interested in selling graves as a rental that same way in 22-23 as he got passed by Luke and Bahl in the playoffs anyway). If not, keep him as 7D.

He's looked a LOT better than any of the other rental RHD options

 

[TBF1972]

This is beyond clueless...Hamilton and Pesce were always going to be the top 2 RD on the Devils this season.

Most thought Nemec would be the #3 RD, but injuries opened up an opportunity for Kovacevic and he's run with it. In all fairness, Nemec has struggled a bit this season as well (many think due in large part to an injury he sustained right before the start of the season), though he's also the youngest defenceman in the league so we can cut him some slack.

This is more a matter of Kovacevic taking advantage of an opportunity and playing really, really well to earn a spot in the lineup versus Nemec struggling and needing to be replaced by a guy that only cost a 4th round pick. We'll see if Kovacevic can keep up this level of play, but right now he certainly deserves to be in there and what he fetched last season from Montreal is irrelevant.

I don't think Nemec is untouchable, especially with Casey in the pipeline, but I can't see him being moved at all this season and if he was, it wouldn't be for futures - maybe a young, established player that can jump in at 3C as that's where NJ is really lacking in depth.

injuries are only excuses for elite talents like caufield. they don't apply here nemec sucks.

otherwise proof me wrong with evidence.

 

[MakoSlade]

Coincidentally, they massively underachieved, missing the playoffs when they were expected to take the next step and contend. Seems like the Devils management wised up and are now using Nemec where he should be used currently (press box).

A really deep blue line that features Kovacevic in the top-4, who was expendable in MTL and shipped out for a mid-round pick?

You really don’t understand the difference between a 2nd overall pick and a 31st? Yes, Mailloux’s stock has increased from 31st in the draft. Yes, Nemec’s stock has fallen from 2nd overall. The fact that they’re both in the same boat currently is not a flattering look for a 2nd overall pick.

My goodness, what are you so angry about?