Move Players with term, recoup picks

goldnblack

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Jun 24, 2020
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For folks trading out 4-5 current roster players, it's a fantasy to not take some roster players and cap back. Sure our cap situation isn't great. But that's also the case with 2/3's of the league. You can't ship out like 14M in salary and not get a penny back...
 

PlayMakers

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Aug 9, 2004
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Jordan Stall, Eric Stall, Travis Boyd, Max Domi, Colton Sissons, nick Paul, Nick Bjugstad. That's off the top of my head, all make less than Coyle and are within 10 points of his career average. I don't like a few of those players but think they can play third line center and allow you to move Coyle to free up space to sign or trade for a legitimate second line center, that is not Coyle and never will be.

Coyle at three million a year I would be fine with but not at 5 plus
To be fair, NONE of the players you mentioned scored 40 ES points this year, which is what he was asking. Most of them didn't score 40 points total, and the guy who was over 40 points did it with lots of PP points.

Trent Frederic is going to give you what you are looking for on the 3rd line, in terms of a center with size, who can put up 30 points for under $3m.

I think Charlie Coyle is going to be the 2nd line center. The front office seems comfortable with that and I think it's a worthy experiment. We've never seen Coyle play with two top6 wingers, and despite that he finished in the top50 for ES offense among centers this year, producing as much if not more ES offense than a lot of big name guys, including Bergeron, Hertl, JT Miller, Kadri, Seguin, Lindholm, Reinhart, Tavares...
 

Mainehockey33

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Fair enough, I'm not thrilled with most those names, but to save some cap I suppose I can live with the downgrade, especially on the 3rd line. Other options are try Frederic at 3C or take a risk on a youngish UFA option breaking through such as Colin White. Sean Monahan could be an interesting one year stop gap if Coyle is moved.
I don’t think a few of those would be a downgrade. In the last 4 seasons, Coyle’s ppg has dropped from about 0.5 in the regular season to 0.42 in the playoffs. Just looking at Domi and Jordan Staal’s playoff numbers they’ve both been more productive in the playoffs during that time.
 

PlayMakers

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#1LW - Zacha - Pasta
Marchand - Coyle - JDB
Hall - Frederic - #3RW

I think that's what we're looking at for a top9, with them attempting to clear enough cap to bring back Bertuzzi as the #1LW. My guess is they're hoping a kid can fill out the #3RW spot; Lysell, Merkulov, McLaughlin... My money would be on McLaughlin.

#1LD - McAvoy
Lindholm-Carlo
#3LD-#3RD

I don't know how they fill that #1LD spot. Folks are clamoring for a Boychuk type which I get, but how do they afford it? Also, McAvoy has played his worst with Forbort, so they have to be careful that the guy they bring in is different enough from Forbort but close enough to be that heavy physical D... Is that guy Carson Soucy? I always thought of him as a left handed Carlo in terms of his size and mobility, but he's not a great puck mover. Is it Ryan Graves? He's also big and has a bit more offense in him but he's also rumored to be signing for over $5m which they can't afford. The answer to the #LD can't be Zboril or a rookie. They're not going to "be competitive" with those guys playing in the top4. The 3rd pair is where you break in those guys and maybe sign a cheap vet to balance it out.
 

Fenian24

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To be fair, NONE of the players you mentioned scored 40 ES points this year, which is what he was asking. Most of them didn't score 40 points total, and the guy who was over 40 points did it with lots of PP points.

Trent Frederic is going to give you what you are looking for on the 3rd line, in terms of a center with size, who can put up 30 points for under $3m.

I think Charlie Coyle is going to be the 2nd line center. The front office seems comfortable with that and I think it's a worthy experiment. We've never seen Coyle play with two top6 wingers, and despite that he finished in the top50 for ES offense among centers this year, producing as much if not more ES offense than a lot of big name guys, including Bergeron, Hertl, JT Miller, Kadri, Seguin, Lindholm, Reinhart, Tavares...
I unfortunately think you are right and think it will be an unmitigated disaster. The only good news about Coyle as your number 2 center is you might be able to keep that top 10 protected first rounder from the Bertuzzi trade. If Pastrnak gets hurt or regresses badly they are not a playoff team with Coyle as the number two enter. Coyle would not be a number two center on any contender for the playoffs in the league. Sadly he is a good player who, for some unknown reason, is now being looked at as something he is not or ever has been in his 10 year career, a top 6 forward. He is not suddenly going to have an offensive breakout season and teams do not make the playoffs with 40 point number two centers.

If they manage to make the playoffs I do not want him here, he has had 1 good playoff as a Bruins and been mediocre or worse otherwise.
 

Fenian24

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#1LW - Zacha - Pasta
Marchand - Coyle - JDB
Hall - Frederic - #3RW

I think that's what we're looking at for a top9, with them attempting to clear enough cap to bring back Bertuzzi as the #1LW. My guess is they're hoping a kid can fill out the #3RW spot; Lysell, Merkulov, McLaughlin... My money would be on McLaughlin.

#1LD - McAvoy
Lindholm-Carlo
#3LD-#3RD

I don't know how they fill that #1LD spot. Folks are clamoring for a Boychuk type which I get, but how do they afford it? Also, McAvoy has played his worst with Forbort, so they have to be careful that the guy they bring in is different enough from Forbort but close enough to be that heavy physical D... Is that guy Carson Soucy? I always thought of him as a left handed Carlo in terms of his size and mobility, but he's not a great puck mover. Is it Ryan Graves? He's also big and has a bit more offense in him but he's also rumored to be signing for over $5m which they can't afford. The answer to the #LD can't be Zboril or a rookie. They're not going to "be competitive" with those guys playing in the top4. The 3rd pair is where you break in those guys and maybe sign a cheap vet to balance it out.
I like Soucy, if Mayfield can play his off hand I like him there as well. The 5 and 6 should be physical. Gudas, Schenn, Burroughs, Ian Cole, Connor Mackey, Marc Staal. Hope one of Lohrei or Brunet develop as a top 4 in a couple years.

Number 1 LW needs to be Bertuzzi, his chemistry with Pasta was great and he showed up in the playoffs. 3RW, Corey Perry would be a great add.
 
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BruinDust

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I still don't understand where one finds the space to re-sign Bertuzzi. I really don't.

I'm looking at Cap Friendly with a 83. 5 cap, minus the 4.5 overage (so call it 79 million).

I got 8 forwards (Hall, Zacha, Pasta, Marchand, Coyle, Debrusk, Greer, and Lauko) + Lindholm, Carlo, McAvoy and Zboril. I kept Ullmark and extended Swayman at 3.5 per. I gave Lauko 1 millon per.

While unrealistic, I found a way to trade Forbort, Gryz, and Reilly without retaining salary.

I didn't include Trent Frederic and his potential raise which I would pegged at around 2-2.5 million based on comparables. No Bergeron or Krejci either.

And I'm still sitting here wiith 5.6 million in cap space left and I still need 5 forwards and at least 3 D-men.

If the Bruins want Bertuzzi, somebody whose a good player with a sizable contract is going. No other way around it. Heck it might be two players.

It's just a question of who.
 

Absurdity

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Roster below has Grzelcyk, Frederic, and Ullmark traded for picks. Reilly and Forbort bought out. Cap space left, $755,832:

Bertuzzi 6x6 - Zacha - Pastrnak
Marchand - Coyle - Lysell
Hall - Merkulov - DeBrusk
Lauko 950k - Beecher - Steen
Greer

Lindholm - McAvoy
Zboril - Carlo
Lohrei - Schenn 1M
X

Swayman 3.5M
Bussi 950k

If Bertuzzi isn't signed, it will give the Bruins another $6.7M. Number could be higher if they find takers for Forbort and Reilly. It will give them more room to add another veteran to the bottom 6 and maybe look at another top 4D. If Bergeron comes back for around $1M with bonuses, he can replace Merkulov/Lysell, and the forward lines can be rearranged.
 
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Over the volcano

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Mar 10, 2006
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...

I think Charlie Coyle is going to be the 2nd line center. The front office seems comfortable with that and I think it's a worthy experiment. We've never seen Coyle play with two top6 wingers, and despite that he finished in the top50 for ES offense among centers this year, producing as much if not more ES offense than a lot of big name guys, including Bergeron, Hertl, JT Miller, Kadri, Seguin, Lindholm, Reinhart, Tavares...
Didn't they try him there to start out last year before switching to Haula?
 
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Fenian24

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Roster below has Grzelcyk, Frederic, and Ullmark traded for picks. Reilly and Forbort bought out. Cap space left, $755,832:

Bertuzzi 6x6 - Zacha - Pastrnak
Marchand - Coyle - Lysell
Hall - Merkulov - DeBrusk
Lauko 950k - Beecher - Steen
Greer

Lindholm - McAvoy
Zboril - Carlo
Lohrei - Schenn 1M
X

Swayman 3.5M
Bussi 950k

If Bertuzzi isn't signed, it will give the Bruins another $6.7M. Number could be higher if they find takers for Forbort and Reilly. It will give them more room to add another veteran to the bottom 6 and maybe look at another top 4D. If Bergeron comes back for around $1M with bonuses, he can replace Merkulov/Lysell, and the forward lines can be rearranged.
People need t realize Lohrei is not ready for the NHL, he needs at least a year in Providence. If you want to ruin him then you put him in Boston and he will sink. They have very few real prospects (many would say none), if you destroy one of the few you have it really hurts in two years. Merkulov is not an option to me, I did not see a ton of him but he seems more suited to a top 6 roll then a bottom 6. Lysell should be used for trade bait at this point before he has no value. If he is your second line winger with Coyle as your number 2 center the Bruins will be in the running for a top 5 pick.

Didn't they try him there to start out last year before switching to Haula?
Yes they did and he was awful. He also dragged down his line.
 

TCB

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Dec 15, 2017
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Roster below has Grzelcyk, Frederic, and Ullmark traded for picks. Reilly and Forbort bought out. Cap space left, $755,832:

Bertuzzi 6x6 - Zacha - Pastrnak
Marchand - Coyle - Lysell
Hall - Merkulov - DeBrusk
Lauko 950k - Beecher - Steen
Greer

Lindholm - McAvoy
Zboril - Carlo
Lohrei - Schenn 1M
X

Swayman 3.5M
Bussi 950k

If Bertuzzi isn't signed, it will give the Bruins another $6.7M. Number could be higher if they find takers for Forbort and Reilly. It will give them more room to add another veteran to the bottom 6 and maybe look at another top 4D. If Bergeron comes back for around $1M with bonuses, he can replace Merkulov/Lysell, and the forward lines can be rearranged.
I think Forbort has some value, so I wouldn't think the Bruins would have to buy him out or maybe its just wishful thinking and the way Schenn has played these playoffs I could see him getting 2.5-3 mil on a one year deal.

Don't see Freddy being moved either. I think its going to be bigger contract, a Hall/Debrusk/Coyle or even a Marchand but who the hell really knows at this point. I don't think anyone including Sweeney really knows right now. I Really don't like that line-up either. LOL A lot of what ifs but hey the 2024 first is top 10 protected.

O' yeah and Bergy coming back
 
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DiggityDog

2 Minutes for Ruffing
Nov 2, 2019
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Roster below has Grzelcyk, Frederic, and Ullmark traded for picks. Reilly and Forbort bought out. Cap space left, $755,832:

Bertuzzi 6x6 - Zacha - Pastrnak
Marchand - Coyle - Lysell
Hall - Merkulov - DeBrusk
Lauko 950k - Beecher - Steen
Greer

Lindholm - McAvoy
Zboril - Carlo
Lohrei - Schenn 1M
X

Swayman 3.5M
Bussi 950k

If Bertuzzi isn't signed, it will give the Bruins another $6.7M. Number could be higher if they find takers for Forbort and Reilly. It will give them more room to add another veteran to the bottom 6 and maybe look at another top 4D. If Bergeron comes back for around $1M with bonuses, he can replace Merkulov/Lysell, and the forward lines can be rearranged.

Obviously if Bergeron retires the Bruins are going to have to have a “transition” type year where they integrate youth into the lineup.

Having said that, 5 rookies is a stretch. Especially when the majority of them are still relatively green.

Of the 5 you have here I would say Merkulov and Beecher are the most likely, but again who knows.
 

Absurdity

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Jul 6, 2012
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People need t realize Lohrei is not ready for the NHL, he needs at least a year in Providence. If you want to ruin him then you put him in Boston and he will sink. They have very few real prospects (many would say none), if you destroy one of the few you have it really hurts in two years. Merkulov is not an option to me, I did not see a ton of him but he seems more suited to a top 6 roll then a bottom 6. Lysell should be used for trade bait at this point before he has no value. If he is your second line winger with Coyle as your number 2 center the Bruins will be in the running for a top 5 pick.


Yes they did and he was awful. He also dragged down his line.
What it will come down to is if the Bruins want Bertuzzi, they will most likely have to move someone like Hall.

Bergeron will most likely be back as well so that pushes Coyle down to the 3rd line.

Until the Bruins get that next franchise center, the next best thing they can do is build lines with really good wingers. Luckily for them, they have those.

I'm with you on Lohrei and Lysell. It doesn't sound like they are ready. They might be able to give Lohrei 3rd line minutes, but they would need to add a veteran top 4 LD and third pairing RD. Zboril doesn't exactly scream confidence, and to me, one of my biggest problems with Montgomery was not giving him more games when the Bruins were so dominant all season.

I agree that Merkulov fits more in a top 6 role, which is why I put Hall and DeBrusk on the wings. Hall and DeBrusk mesh pretty well with one another. However, I think the Bruins need to identity what they are looking for from each line. It's great that their forwards were great offensively last season, but I think what hurt them in the playoffs was that they didn't have a line that could shutdown Florida's best lines, and they also didn't have a line that would go out of their way and constantly forecheck.
 
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Absurdity

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Jul 6, 2012
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So really, with a 22-man roster your already over the cap.
By one player yes, but I tried! :laugh: Hall will most likely have to go if Bertuzzi is re-signed. It will be interesting to see what direction the Bruins go in.
I think Forbort has some value, so I wouldn't think the Bruins would have to buy him out or maybe its just wishful thinking and the way Schenn has played these playoffs I could see him getting 2.5-3 mil on a one year deal.

Don't see Freddy being moved either. I think its going to be bigger contract, a Hall/Debrusk/Coyle or even a Marchand but who the hell really knows at this point. I don't think anyone including Sweeney really knows right now. I Really don't like that line-up either. LOL A lot of what ifs but hey the 2024 first is top 10 protected.

O' yeah and Bergy coming back
I agree with Bergeron coming back. Someone will have to be traded to make room for Bertuzzi. There are way too many what-ifs. I think there's a good chance one of Ullmark/Swayman will be traded, and Grzelcyk, Forbort, and Reilly most likely have to be moved/bought out for cap reasons. They might be able to get away with keeping Grzelcyk if they move a forward, but with the Bruins reluctance to play him in the playoffs, he's probably on his way out. For the forwards, who the heck knows.
 
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HumBucker

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By one player yes, but I tried! :laugh: Hall will most likely have to go if Bertuzzi is re-signed. It will be interesting to see what direction the Bruins go in.

I agree with Bergeron coming back. Someone will have to be traded to make room for Bertuzzi. There are way too many what-ifs. I think there's a good chance one of Ullmark/Swayman will be traded, and Grzelcyk, Forbort, and Reilly most likely have to be moved for cap reasons. They might be able to get away with keeping Grzelcyk if they move a forward, but with the Bruins reluctance to play him in the playoffs, he's probably on his way out. For the forwards, who the heck knows.
Agreed. I don't think they can keep Bertuzzi and Hall. Tough choice. I like Hall overall, better. But playoff Bertuzzi was impressive.
 

Lord Ahriman

Registered User
Oct 21, 2009
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#1LW - Zacha - Pasta
Marchand - Coyle - JDB
Hall - Frederic - #3RW

I think that's what we're looking at for a top9, with them attempting to clear enough cap to bring back Bertuzzi as the #1LW. My guess is they're hoping a kid can fill out the #3RW spot; Lysell, Merkulov, McLaughlin... My money would be on McLaughlin.

#1LD - McAvoy
Lindholm-Carlo
#3LD-#3RD

I don't know how they fill that #1LD spot. Folks are clamoring for a Boychuk type which I get, but how do they afford it? Also, McAvoy has played his worst with Forbort, so they have to be careful that the guy they bring in is different enough from Forbort but close enough to be that heavy physical D... Is that guy Carson Soucy? I always thought of him as a left handed Carlo in terms of his size and mobility, but he's not a great puck mover. Is it Ryan Graves? He's also big and has a bit more offense in him but he's also rumored to be signing for over $5m which they can't afford. The answer to the #LD can't be Zboril or a rookie. They're not going to "be competitive" with those guys playing in the top4. The 3rd pair is where you break in those guys and maybe sign a cheap vet to balance it out.

It will depend on next year salary cap, but I'm not too hopeful a sizeable raise could happen taking into consideration big revenues teams are gone. Maybe 84 ~ 85M? Still can't see how they could afford Graves.

That being said, since they are retooling I just want a watchable defense, not the pathetic and soft one we witnessed.
 

BruinDust

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Aug 2, 2005
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By one player yes, but I tried! :laugh: Hall will most likely have to go if Bertuzzi is re-signed. It will be interesting to see what direction the Bruins go in.

I agree with Bergeron coming back. Someone will have to be traded to make room for Bertuzzi. There are way too many what-ifs. I think there's a good chance one of Ullmark/Swayman will be traded, and Grzelcyk, Forbort, and Reilly most likely have to be moved/bought out for cap reasons. They might be able to get away with keeping Grzelcyk if they move a forward, but with the Bruins reluctance to play him in the playoffs, he's probably on his way out. For the forwards, who the heck knows.

I really don't want them to sign Bertuzzi and trade Hall. I can't justify trading one guy with 2-years on his deal just to hand over roughly the same AAV to another winger but commit to an extra 4-5-6 years. I watch Bertuzzi skate and I just don't think it projects well at all. When I'm looking at signing older guys to long-term deals, I find skating ability can be a good predictor. Then factor in the league gets faster every single year.
 
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Absurdity

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Jul 6, 2012
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I really don't want them to sign Bertuzzi and trade Hall. I can't justify trading one guy with 2-years on his deal just to hand over roughly the same AAV to another winger but commit to an extra 4-5-6 years. I watch Bertuzzi skate and I just don't think it projects well at all. When I'm looking at signing older guys to long-term deals, I find skating ability can be a good predictor. Then factor in the league gets faster every single year.
I expected Bertuzzi to be more physical and better defensively. Don't get me wrong, he was finishing his hits, but you raise good questions in terms of his productivity long-term. Detroit wasn't willing to give him a long-term deal. There will definitely be a team out there though that gives him a 5/6-year $6-7M deal.

Hall looked just as impressive in the playoffs as Bertuzzi did. Hall has grown defensively as well. I don't think there will be much of a drop off offensively going from Bertuzzi to Hall along Zacha and Pastrnak. Bertuzzi would be a great add, but I would rather the Bruins focus on establishing an identity for their 3rd and 4th lines, and add at least one top 4D.
 
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BruinDust

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Aug 2, 2005
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I expected Bertuzzi to be more physical and better defensively. Don't get me wrong, he was finishing his hits, but you raise good questions in terms of his productivity long-term. Detroit wasn't willing to give him a long-term deal. There will definitely be a team out there though that gives him a 5/6-year $6-7M deal.

Hall looked just as impressive in the playoffs as Bertuzzi did. Hall has grown defensively as well. I don't think there will be much of a drop off offensively going from Bertuzzi to Hall along Zacha and Pastrnak. Bertuzzi would be a great add, but I would rather the Bruins focus on establishing an identity for their 3rd and 4th lines, and adding at least one top 4D.

It's kind of strange to really like what a guy brought to the table but still not want him back. I thought Bertuzzi was one of the better Bruin forwards. He plays hard in tough areas. But such is life as a fan in the cap system.

The defensive weakness sort of stood out to me. Say he's signed long-term and his production drops-off, meanwhile you (may) have a coach that now believes that his lower production isn't worth his drawbacks (defensive play) and starts to scratch him. Now you just have an albatross contract you have to buy-out or send more quality assets out the door to get out from under it.

Signing guys into their mid-30s really should only be for truly special players/franchise cornerstones. Brad Marchand's contract may be a detriment by the end. But he's such a big part of this organization fans are willing to take the risk signing him into his twilight years career wise. No one (including myself) complained.

But for a Bertuzzi, I just can't go there and the Bruins will have a hard time finding cap room for him anyways.

And the days of this team trading valuable things like draft picks to get out from under albatross contracts simply has to stop. They can't afford to do that anymore and should be a guiding principal in their decision making.
 

TCB

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Dec 15, 2017
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Agreed. I don't think they can keep Bertuzzi and Hall. Tough choice. I like Hall overall, better. But playoff Bertuzzi was impressive.
Love Bertuzzi he's clutch, Gritty and does whatever it takes to win, but the bruins number one need is a Center for the future and if a 24 year-old PLD, can be had that's who I want. Shed salary and get a top legit young center. With Bergeron and Krejci in limbo and nearing the end, Center imo is the number one priority and Dubois would be at the top my list. Of course any deal for PLD would have to come with a contract extension.

The jets are going to make changes and they wont be in a total re-build either so a Hockey deal could get done here. Just hoping Sweeney can pull off a deal similar to the one that Zito did after last season president trophy winners got eliminated in the first round.
 
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Hookslide

Registered User
Nov 19, 2018
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Roster below has Grzelcyk, Frederic, and Ullmark traded for picks. Reilly and Forbort bought out. Cap space left, $755,832:

Bertuzzi 6x6 - Zacha - Pastrnak
Marchand - Coyle - Lysell
Hall - Merkulov - DeBrusk
Lauko 950k - Beecher - Steen
Greer

Lindholm - McAvoy
Zboril - Carlo
Lohrei - Schenn 1M
X

Swayman 3.5M
Bussi 950k

If Bertuzzi isn't signed, it will give the Bruins another $6.7M. Number could be higher if they find takers for Forbort and Reilly. It will give them more room to add another veteran to the bottom 6 and maybe look at another top 4D. If Bergeron comes back for around $1M with bonuses, he can replace Merkulov/Lysell, and the forward lines can be rearranged.
Seven rookies and I am putting Lauko in that category , if you are giving up on the season that trade Hall , and don't sign Bertuzzi...........
 

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