Post-Game Talk: Mother's Day Massacre. Series tied 2-2

[dubplatepressure]

This was a real eye opening game as to which team performs better under pressure.

A dominating Leafs win while going up 3-1 and putting a stranglehold on the series, would have sent a clear message that this is a different Leafs team of the past that doesn't lose in big games.

the leafs are 1-8 in the matthews era when up in a series.

 

[SoVi3t]

I really do not want this to go to the seventh game... we all know whats going to happen if it does.

It might go to game seven. We're playing the defending Stanley Cup champions. We need to stop thinking we're the Leafs from 7 or 8 or 10 years ago. This is the best Leafs team we have probably ever had. Let's have some faith they have learned from their previous game seven defeats, and know what is required should it go that far.

While I completely get that it's not fun whatsoever to watch the Leafs get bent over for three periods of hockey, it's still the playoffs and this seems to be the norm across the league. Team loses a game, comes out FLYING the next game and goes bonkers vs the other team. Back and forth. Truthfully, we were done for way too early in that game and I think Tampa knew it just as much as Toronto did. It happens. Happened to Tampa the game before...

We need to see how the Leafs react coming home, hope our crowd is as loud as it was during game one, and hope the refs stop calling so many absurd penalties.

Not one game has the officiating felt the same. That definitely matters.

 

[killer1980]

I must admit, I hate it when so many here are piling on Tavares. Now, I was one of the first to say I did not believe that he was the right fit for the kind of team Dubas' wanted. That said, he is one of the few that is getting his nose dirty and really taking a pounding. The other pretty boys did a great job in game one but clearly didn't like it. They have stayed away from the contact the last 3 games. If the game is a wide open skating affair, I think the Leafs have the better team. However, this is playoff hockey. The odds are as the playoffs go on the ice will be shrinking and shrinking. I care more about effort and Tavares does not lack for that. The fault is that Dubas shelled out a ton of money on a player who does not fit in with the rest of the team.

 

[keonsbitterness]

the leafs are 1-8 in the matthews era when up in a series.

To quote Phil Kessel, "It's not good, eh?"

 

[therealkoho]

Trade Tavares for Toews (50% retained) to show these losers how to win. Trade Nylander for Horvat to get a more defensive oriented center on line 2. Give Anaheim whatever they want for Gibson

I'm sure you know how the cap works I'd put money down that Chicago does as well

 

[Commander Clueless]

I love this team.

I just wish the feeling was mutual.....

 

[therealkoho]

What were you watching years ago, he pulled the exact same move in the final minute of a game 7 vs Boston. Puck dumped into his corner and he stops up short because he was scared Chara would hit him.

To be fair he also does it during the regular season, which makes him an equal opportunity suck.

 

[frog]

Im at a loss for words with Nylander... Selfish and scared, every other player on our team takes a hit to make a play and nylander apparently thinks its preseason. That nylander play is all that is wrong with the leafs mindset

 

[IPS]

It has NOTHING to do with production .. nothing at all .. it has nothing to do with stats .. and unfortunately you won't be able to understand it unless you seen all 4 games live in da rinks .. he is getting caught from behind when he tries to bring puck out of his end .. he is getting left in da dust every time all C's on Tampa break out of their end .. he is getting boxed out of net front by all Tampa D's trying to setup position .. he is not getting close to puck in 5-10 foot mini races in his own end .. our D don't even bother to look for him for a pass anymore as he is always covered .. and it is not even remotely close in all these issues .. it is a complete and total beat down by every Tampa C on virtually every single shift .. there were many Toronto fans sitting behind Leaf bench with my mom and I and there were 2 or 3 screaming at Keefer most of game 4 to sit JT .. now I could not do it because it was mothers day and I was on my Ps and Qs

You don't need to see it live to see how bad JT looks out of place out there, how some of these other fans can't see it is beyond me..

I am utterly f***ing stunned they haven't demoted him to 4th line C yet and gave Kerfoot the #2C hole. I swear to god they're more worried about hurting Tavares' feelings then they are about actually winning this series. This demotion needed to happen yesterday but once again I'm sure we're going to see practice lines with JT still there.

 

[Racer88]

the leafs are 1-8 in the matthews era when up in a series.

Pathetic

You don't need to see it live to see how bad JT looks out of place out there, how some of these other fans can't see it is beyond me..

I am utterly f***ing stunned they haven't demoted him to 4th line C yet and gave Kerfoot the #2C hole. I swear to god they're more worried about hurting Tavares' feelings then they are about actually winning this series. This demotion needed to happen yesterday but once again I'm sure we're going to see practice lines with JT still there.

Also I’m guessing they are worried about making Dubas look bad for spending 11 million on a player that hasn’t helped this team win one single thing and such a long contract.

 

[danron1376]

when was the last time keefe owned any of his decisions? when babcock was the coach, at least he would take responsibility for not preparing the team if they were not good off the bat.

 

[TGB]

Tit for tat.

On the bright side, if the pattern holds the Leafs win.

 

[daveleaf]

Guys seem to forget that they are playing ghe defending Stanley Cup Champs. You think they are going to roll over and die? How else were they going to come out?

Even with the start this team would have had a chance at it. Let's be honest here, after two periods the leafs were short handed 8 times! 8 vs 2! Tough to get anything going when you are always short handed. I have watched a lot of the playoff hockey and the officiating is disgraceful. Some of the calls were just laughable. Now they had to try to even it up and the end of the game at garbage time with misconducts to make it 30-22 PIM's.

Sure it was a horrible start-inexcusable, after that the game was in the refs hands. In my opinion they should have received all three stars for the game. Best hockey, in my opinion was the 80's Oilers and maybe the height was the 87 canada cup in Hamilton. You guys can go on all you like about the role of enforcers all you want but this is what has happened to hockey. It's become a tic tac league, run by smallish guys running with their sticks. Cherry said it, everyone else knew better so here we are.

All I want to see is the whistles put away, only serious infractions called, blatant trips and holds etc. This is stupid, a team is short handed more than half of the game, I mean come on. This is not hockey, this is BS. Let them play!

 

[therealkoho]

About the Engvall-Hagel thing

I'm sure the referee that was standing right there 3 feet away shouted something like "OK Boys go at it have fun, c'mon there Giraffe you look like a big suck, punch him in the face or something" and probably not anything like "knock it off right now, next guy goes for two!"

y'know hockey stuff like that

 

[Folignos Helmet]

the leafs are 1-8 in the matthews era when up in a series.

not the best

 

[Zybalto]

Interesting analysis thanks. However, regardless of what the agreegated stats tell you if Holl didn't shit the bed for first like 15 minutes of that game it would have gone very different.

Also can you explain what the REL being used is? All are playing on the same team so why would you need a relative stat? Wouldn't their goals against per 60 be an apples to apples comparison regardless? Or is does it include other things like home vs away, if your leading or not etc?

Using REL as not all players play the same minutes and not all players have played in all the games.

Expanding a bit to get more info:

5v5 oZone starts:
1. Giordano: 27%
2. Boosh: 27%
3. Holl: 33%
4. Brodie: 39%
5. Muzzin: 39%
6. Liljegren: 40%
7. Rielly: 44%

Fewest Giveaways/60 (All situations):

1. Holl
2. Rielly
2. Brodie
4. Muzzin
5. Boosh
6. Giordano
7. Liljegen

Fewest Goals Against/60 (All situations):

1. Liljegren
2. Holl
3. Giordano
4. Rielly
5. Brodie
6. Muzzin
7. Boosh

Minor penalties taken (all situations):

1. Liljegren: 0
2. Rielly: 0
3. Holl: 1
4. Giordano: 1
5. Muzzin: 1
6. Brodie: 2
7. Boosh: 4



Holl is interesting because of the hyper focus on him despite the fact he doesnt really make that many mistakes and when he does, not many of them find their way into the back of the net. He's a bit awkward looking out there though and so an easy target I guess.

Total goals given up on the ice: all dmen on both teams in the playoffs so far (all situations):

Liljegren: 1
Holl: 1
Foote: 1
Ruuta: 1
Giordano: 3
Bogo: 3
Boosh: 4
Cernak: 4
Rielly: 5
McDonagh:5
Sergachev: 5
Brodie: 6
Muzzin: 6
Hedman: 8

 

[therealkoho]

Using REL as not all players play the same minutes and not all players have played in all the games.

Expanding a bit to get more info:

5v5 oZone starts:
1. Giordano: 27%
2. Boosh: 27%
3. Holl: 33%
4. Brodie: 39%
5. Muzzin: 39%
6. Liljegren: 40%
7. Rielly: 44%

Fewest Giveaways/60 (All situations):

1. Holl
2. Rielly
2. Brodie
4. Muzzin
5. Boosh
6. Giordano
7. Liljegen

Fewest Goals Against/60 (All situations):

1. Liljegren
2. Holl
3. Giordano
4. Rielly
5. Brodie
6. Muzzin
7. Boosh

Minor penalties taken (all situations):

1. Liljegren: 0
2. Rielly: 0
3. Holl: 1
4. Giordano: 1
5. Muzzin: 1
6. Brodie: 2
7. Boosh: 4



Holl is interesting because of the hyper focus on him despite the fact he doesnt really make that many mistakes and when he does, not many of them find their way into the back of the net. He's a bit awkward looking out there though and so an easy target I guess.

Total goals given up on the ice: all dmen on both teams in the playoffs so far (all situations):

Liljegren: 1
Holl: 1
Foote: 1
Ruuta: 1
Giordano: 3
Bogo: 3
Boosh: 4
Cernak: 4
Rielly: 5
McDonagh:5
Sergachev: 5
Brodie: 6
Muzzin: 6
Hedman: 8

they only believe the stats when the stats support their individual beliefs/perceptions, it's how it works in LeaFland

Willy turtles going into a corner(not the first or last time), Willy fans "he's tired because he was out so long," so yeah like that.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Using REL as not all players play the same minutes and not all players have played in all the games.

Expanding a bit to get more info:

5v5 oZone starts:
1. Giordano: 27%
2. Boosh: 27%
3. Holl: 33%
4. Brodie: 39%
5. Muzzin: 39%
6. Liljegren: 40%
7. Rielly: 44%

Fewest Giveaways/60 (All situations):

1. Holl
2. Rielly
2. Brodie
4. Muzzin
5. Boosh
6. Giordano
7. Liljegen

Fewest Goals Against/60 (All situations):

1. Liljegren
2. Holl
3. Giordano
4. Rielly
5. Brodie
6. Muzzin
7. Boosh

Minor penalties taken (all situations):

1. Liljegren: 0
2. Rielly: 0
3. Holl: 1
4. Giordano: 1
5. Muzzin: 1
6. Brodie: 2
7. Boosh: 4



Holl is interesting because of the hyper focus on him despite the fact he doesnt really make that many mistakes and when he does, not many of them find their way into the back of the net. He's a bit awkward looking out there though and so an easy target I guess.

Total goals given up on the ice: all dmen on both teams in the playoffs so far (all situations):

Liljegren: 1
Holl: 1
Foote: 1
Ruuta: 1
Giordano: 3
Bogo: 3
Boosh: 4
Cernak: 4
Rielly: 5
McDonagh:5
Sergachev: 5
Brodie: 6
Muzzin: 6
Hedman: 8

Ah okay, I wonder how the ice time difference effects the numbers as you are already normalizing by minutes played by using a per 60 stat.

I always found it so bizarre how defensive partners could have such different zone deployment At 5 on 5. Rielly being the most obvious from that list. Guess it pretty much due to shifts after special teams.

Fewest givesways is interesting that rielly is so close to the top. Also key thing i see is how good Gio has been in his defensive usage (though I imagine not as high QOC as guys like Brodie or Muzzin)

Part of the reason for the hate on Holl is because of who he is keeping out of the lineup and who's development is being stunted as a result. He also has that casual looking element to his game that people hate lol. Personally I'd rather see Lily get some time as you if not now when will be be a playoff regular?

I think the last stats you showed is a great example for why QoC is so so important. All the guys going out against the other teams top lines for the most part are letting in all the goals (as you would expect)

 

[ACC1224]

they only believe the stats when the stats support their individual beliefs/perceptions, it's how it works in LeaFland

Willy turtles going into a corner(not the first or last time), Willy fans "he's tired because he was out so long," so yeah like that.

they can't type that with a straight face.

 

[81Leafs50]

HOW on earth do the refs call hooking on Tavares when they see Perry drop like the sack of shit that he is.....and the refs let him get away with that? this is the standard they are calling in the playoffs? bush league

 

[81Leafs50]

TBL start Colton, Point, Paul and Keefe starts the Kampf line with Holl and Gio. WTF is this guy scared of? Let Matthews and Marner run over these guys. Coaching scared kills your players confidence. Bad coaching from top to bottom.

Matthews already barely plays with all the penalties. Why should he have to wait 3 shifts to get on the ice? Keefe sucks

 

[Dreakmur]

HOW on earth do the refs call hooking on Tavares when they see Perry drop like the sack of shit that he is.....and the refs let him get away with that? this is the standard they are calling in the playoffs? bush league

Refs are inconsistent, that’s not new. It’s also beneficial to the leafs at times, and almost always evens out in the end.

 

[Matthews4Calder]

Im at a loss for words with Nylander... Selfish and scared, every other player on our team takes a hit to make a play and nylander apparently thinks its preseason. That nylander play is all that is wrong with the leafs mindset

He's not the only one.

 

[egd27]

The great thing about being a 50+ year Leaf fan is you have seen so much, you have no expectations of them doing anything special. So playoff wins are a nice surprise, and playoff losses are not surprising at all.

 

[hoglund]

Why didn't Nylander show no emotion after scoring in the 3rd period?