Morgan Rielly: Part II

[Sonic Disturbance]

I think Rielly has a decent shot at becoming a good defensive player - he definitely has the mobility, physicality and hockey IQ to do so. Most people don't remember this, but if you go look at some Chicago threads in 2006 to 2007, Hawks fans were complaining how terrible Duncan Keith was defensively and how many turnovers he was creating as a 23/24 year old D-man. To me, Rielly has a very similar body type/build, skating stride, passing ability, hockey IQ and both don't exactly have a great shot. I would argue that Rielly actually has better hands than Keith.

 

[Joey Hoser]

He's already a pretty good defensive player IMO. Still prone to errors at this point, but he's got good positioning, reads plays well, is exceptionally strong for his size and uses it, good stick, skates the puck out of trouble, etc.

 

[Atomos2]

I think Rielly has a decent shot at becoming a good defensive player - he definitely has the mobility, physicality and hockey IQ to do so. Most people don't remember this, but if you go look at some Chicago threads in 2006 to 2007, Hawks fans were complaining how terrible Duncan Keith was defensively and how many turnovers he was creating as a 23/24 year old D-man. To me, Rielly has a very similar body type/build, skating stride, passing ability, hockey IQ and both don't exactly have a great shot. I would argue that Rielly actually has better hands than Keith.

Wow, you're right. I just took a look at the old Chicago threads, and our criticism on Rielly has been child's play compared to Chicago.

Ok guys, lets get some more harsh criticism going. Do we want to turn this kid into a norris trophy winner or what?

 

[Sonic Disturbance]

He's already a pretty good defensive player IMO. Still prone to errors at this point, but he's got good positioning, reads plays well, is exceptionally strong for his size and uses it, good stick, skates the puck out of trouble, etc.

I would say he shows flashes of good defensive play, but consistency and turnovers are his main problems (that and the fact the he's one of the worst defenders on a 2-on-1 I've ever seen). Overall, I'd still say he's below average defensively right now with potential to be well above average to very good.

 

[Sonic Disturbance]

Wow, you're right. I just took a look at the old Chicago threads, and our criticism on Rielly has been child's play compared to Chicago.

Ok guys, lets get some more harsh criticism going. Do we want to turn this kid into a norris trophy winner or what?

That scrub Keith was only a 2nd round pick as well,while Rielly was drafted 5th.

EDIT: This thread (from the Chicago board by Hawks fans) is a perfect example of what I was talking about, dated October 18th, 2007 (just two and a half years before he won a cup, gold medal and the Norris), titled "Duncan Keith = headless chicken on skates"

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=431991

Some interesting tidbits:

30 pounds heavier. same horrible outlet passes. same frantic skating. new year, same boneheaded plays. if you reduced his ice time by half, maybe his giveaways would decrease by half.

to think that Tallon maybe could've offered up Keith and Barker for Jack Johnson. Just trade him please. before every GM finds out about him.

They are terrible together. Keith has the worst outlet pass ever. His gaffes and turnovers are getting old quick.

My patience with Keith is waining. Outlet passes and stickhandling are things that every NHL level defenseman should be able to do without question. Duncan has trouble with those two skills sometimes. If the turnovers don't stop after 300 career regular season games, I will officially be a D. Keith hater. He has about another season and a half before then.

He can be a great defensmen but he just...thinks too much in my opinion. He has great hockey sense but hes takes alot of risks. Keith has the ablility to be an great offensive defensmen BUT i think his focus is on the offense more rather then the defesive aspect of the game.

Id think he would make a great forward, hes a grinder with skill and aglility. he plays alot like Ruutu.

And my personal favourite (from a moderator actually )

I don't think the problem is Duncan Keith--the problem is pairing him with Seabrook. Those two just don't complement each other at all. He needs someone to stay in the back end.

What's also interesting is that Keith was thought to be a pure offensive defenseman even as a 24 year old (like Rielly is as a 19-year old by many) and some posters even thought he'd make a better winger.

 

[Green Snow Storm]

That scrub Keith was only a 2nd round pick as well,while Rielly was drafted 5th.

EDIT: This thread (from the Chicago board by Hawks fans) is a perfect example of what I was talking about, dated October 18th, 2007 (just two and a half years before he won a cup, gold medal and the Norris), titled "Duncan Keith = headless chicken on skates"

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=431991

Some interesting tidbits:









And my personal favourite (from a moderator actually )



What's also interesting is that Keith was thought to be a pure offensive defenseman even as a 24 year old (like Rielly is as a 19-year old by many) and some posters even thought he'd make a better winger.

Sounds a lot like the criticism of Gardiner here (which is not completely unwarranted). Just shows players, especially defencemen aren't finished products early in their careers. Pretty funny to read some of those comments.

 

[LeafOfBread]

I've seen more than enough of Rielly in the WHL, AHL and NHL to know he's nothing like Doughty. I don't watch enough of the Blackhawks to see a comparison to Keith, but I know Keith is a much better defender than Rielly will be.

I get that you try hard to be a 'realist' because it's the cool hipster thing to do, but nobody ever expected Keith to be what he is now when he was age 22 in his rookie year, let alone Rielly's age. To talk so definitively at this point is a little strange to say the least.

 

[Tucker93]

I've seen more than enough of Rielly in the WHL, AHL and NHL to know he's nothing like Doughty. I don't watch enough of the Blackhawks to see a comparison to Keith, but I know Keith is a much better defender than Rielly will be.

A lot of defenders carry the puck with a full head of steam, not just Karlsson. Karlsson is great because he can carry the puck without a full head of steam, he slows the game down like no other defender can. He controls the pace of the attack wonderfully. I'm sorry I just don't think any comparison to Karlsson is fair, even stylistically. Karlsson plays the game offensively like no one else, he's a generational talent. His puck support is top notch, his skating is great, his IQ is amazing, his passing is beautiful. Rielly just don't see the game the same way, which isn't a knock on Rielly at all. He just plays the game like Yandle exactly, and I've been making the comparison since Rielly was in the WHL. Even against weaker competition like the WHL Rielly didn't play the same style as Karlsson does.

Duncan Keith was a -11 and put up 21 points as a 22 year old. Whats your proof for saying that Rielly, after seeing him play 50 or so games as a 19 year old, will never be as good defensively as Keith

 

[Bluejaysfan*]

Duncan Keith was a -11 and put up 21 points as a 22 year old. Whats your proof for saying that Rielly, after seeing him play 50 or so games as a 19 year old, will never be as good defensively as Keith

He does not have any. He is spouting off his opinion as fact.

 

[BIitz]

I get that you try hard to be a 'realist' because it's the cool hipster thing to do, but nobody ever expected Keith to be what he is now when he was age 22 in his rookie year, let alone Rielly's age. To talk so definitively at this point is a little strange to say the least.

I don't get what I'm arguing with you here. Nobody expected Keith to be good defensively but he turned out good. So by this logic it'll work for Rielly though? I don't think it's wrong to say Rielly won't be as good of a defender as Keith currently is. Keith is one of the best defensemen in the game in terms of defense this year. Rielly was never a dominant defender at any stage of his WHL game.

I think your last sentence is ironic seeing how people have been definitively comparing him to norris calibre defensemen, yet you call me out on this fact when I don't.

Duncan Keith was a -11 and put up 21 points as a 22 year old. Whats your proof for saying that Rielly, after seeing him play 50 or so games as a 19 year old, will never be as good defensively as Keith

I've actually watched him since he was 16. I'm sorry I don't like to compare him to the one exception of the rule that made his defensive a lot better.

Defensively he's good down low, and he's in the right place on occasion, which is great. But if you isolate him in terms of the defensive zone he is lost. For every Keith there are 10 offensive defensemen who don't learn how to play without the puck in the defensive zone. I'm just playing the odds.

 

[KuleminFan41]

I don't get what I'm arguing with you here. Nobody expected Keith to be good defensively but he turned out good. So by this logic it'll work for Rielly though? I don't think it's wrong to say Rielly won't be as good of a defender as Keith currently is. Keith is one of the best defensemen in the game in terms of defense this year. Rielly was never a dominant defender at any stage of his WHL game.

I think your last sentence is ironic seeing how people have been definitively comparing him to norris calibre defensemen, yet you call me out on this fact when I don't.



I've actually watched him since he was 16. I'm sorry I don't like to compare him to the one exception of the rule that made his defensive a lot better.

Defensively he's good down low, and he's in the right place on occasion, which is great. But if you isolate him in terms of the defensive zone he is lost. For every Keith there are 10 offensive defensemen who don't learn how to play without the puck in the defensive zone. I'm just playing the odds.

You make a point, but passing off as Rielly wont like it will be a fact, is something you just cannot do. You just don't know. He's only a 19 year old playing in his rookie season. It's nearly impossible to make a judgment on how he will turn out, just because you saw him in junior. Sometimes, players play above their expectations which is something Rielly has been doing. He's solid defensively and he's learning because he's still in his 1st season. Any judgment on how high he will get or how much he wont progress is pointless.

He's shown potential thus far and we go from there.

 

[Pi]

I get that you try hard to be a 'realist' because it's the cool hipster thing to do, but nobody ever expected Keith to be what he is now when he was age 22 in his rookie year, let alone Rielly's age. To talk so definitively at this point is a little strange to say the least.

Pretty much. The people who think they know everything about Rielly are likely the people who know the least.

Talking in absolutes about a player that is 19 and has shown that he can be brilliant in many nights is just wrong.

 

[BIitz]

Saying that he only has upwards to go is speaking in absolutes, by the way.

 

[diceman934]

I don't get what I'm arguing with you here. Nobody expected Keith to be good defensively but he turned out good. So by this logic it'll work for Rielly though? I don't think it's wrong to say Rielly won't be as good of a defender as Keith currently is. Keith is one of the best defensemen in the game in terms of defense this year. Rielly was never a dominant defender at any stage of his WHL game.

I think your last sentence is ironic seeing how people have been definitively comparing him to norris calibre defensemen, yet you call me out on this fact when I don't.



I've actually watched him since he was 16. I'm sorry I don't like to compare him to the one exception of the rule that made his defensive a lot better.

Defensively he's good down low, and he's in the right place on occasion, which is great. But if you isolate him in terms of the defensive zone he is lost. For every Keith there are 10 offensive defensemen who don't learn how to play without the puck in the defensive zone. I'm just playing the odds.

I have watched Rielly since he started High School.....and he is among the smartest players that play the game....his Hockey IQ is over the top as is his positional play is fantastic. His issue is believing that his D partners will play the system that they have been asked and reading the play as a result of this.

You are so wrong when comparing him to Yandle as he is going to be vastly superior in all areas of the ice. I like how you state that Reilly was never dominate Defensively in the WHL in your opinion as proof that he will not be a good defensive player in the NHL....when he has been a very solid Defensive D man in his last 30 games, playing on his weak side....lets see Kieth do that at 19 years of age. Now lets get back to his WHL career.....the one that is missing a year of play. His last year in the WHL he was a very dominate D man in all areas of the ice. He was also not challenged Defensively much as he was simply vastly superior in his own zone when he got the puck he simply skated it out.

He will be among the best D man in the NHL and our true number 1.....

 

[diceman934]

I've seen more than enough of Rielly in the WHL, AHL and NHL to know he's nothing like Doughty. I don't watch enough of the Blackhawks to see a comparison to Keith, but I know Keith is a much better defender than Rielly will be.

A lot of defenders carry the puck with a full head of steam, not just Karlsson. Karlsson is great because he can carry the puck without a full head of steam, he slows the game down like no other defender can. He controls the pace of the attack wonderfully. I'm sorry I just don't think any comparison to Karlsson is fair, even stylistically. Karlsson plays the game offensively like no one else, he's a generational talent. His puck support is top notch, his skating is great, his IQ is amazing, his passing is beautiful. Rielly just don't see the game the same way, which isn't a knock on Rielly at all. He just plays the game like Yandle exactly, and I've been making the comparison since Rielly was in the WHL. Even against weaker competition like the WHL Rielly didn't play the same style as Karlsson does.

I truly question just how much you seen Rielly play in the WHL.....I do not believe it was very much at all. He did all the things that you credit Karlsson with....he controlled the pace of the game, his puck support is better right now then Karlsson....so I really do not see that you understand or watched him play much at all. Rielly is Rielly and his skill set is very unique....speed, skill, passing, IQ and strength....with great acceleration. Playing his weak side at 19 years of age....

 

[pooleboy]

I have watched Rielly since he started High School.....and he is among the smartest players that play the game....his Hockey IQ is over the top as is his positional play is fantastic. His issue is believing that his D partners will play the system that they have been asked and reading the play as a result of this.

You are so wrong when comparing him to Yandle as he is going to be vastly superior in all areas of the ice. I like how you state that Reilly was never dominate Defensively in the WHL in your opinion as proof that he will not be a good defensive player in the NHL....when he has been a very solid Defensive D man in his last 30 games, playing on his weak side....lets see Kieth do that at 19 years of age. Now lets get back to his WHL career.....the one that is missing a year of play. His last year in the WHL he was a very dominate D man in all areas of the ice. He was also not challenged Defensively much as he was simply vastly superior in his own zone when he got the puck he simply skated it out.

He will be among the best D man in the NHL and our true number 1.....

I agree with this tbh, Keith comparisons sound more like gardiner than rielly,

Edit: and I've watched rielly in the whl, he didn't really need to play defence would get the puck and skate it out everytime rielly is going to be a star so many people are sleeping on this guy it's ridiculous IMO but that's ok ease him into it, we have so many good young player people have different opinions I think rielly is gunna be a star and would never trade him while some think Gardner will be and we shouldn't ever trade gardiner but rielly cause he's small

I think rielly has amazing hockey iq incredible skater, IMO could be top 10 skater in the league gardiner is fast north south but rielly has incredible hands as well as he is very agile on skates
We have a good one Toronto thank god for tat 18 wheeler

 

[Beleafer4]

That scrub Keith was only a 2nd round pick as well,while Rielly was drafted 5th.

EDIT: This thread (from the Chicago board by Hawks fans) is a perfect example of what I was talking about, dated October 18th, 2007 (just two and a half years before he won a cup, gold medal and the Norris), titled "Duncan Keith = headless chicken on skates"

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=431991

Some interesting tidbits:









And my personal favourite (from a moderator actually )



What's also interesting is that Keith was thought to be a pure offensive defenseman even as a 24 year old (like Rielly is as a 19-year old by many) and some posters even thought he'd make a better winger.

Wow, this really does sound like gardiner, its almost uncanny. Especially when you consider the age (23-24). Idk man, its wierd, some games gardiner looks like a number 1, and others he looks like he doesnt belong in the nhl. I just hope that he reaches the higher end of his potential. I still fully believe in that kid. He has been unlucky this year.

edit: and props to Rare Jewel for trying to make trade proposals for kieth

 

[Beleafer4]

Yandle is a very good offensive D. And we're comparing style. You do realize Doughty is extremely physical and has a solid one timer? Rielly does none of these things.

If you watch Karlsson regularly you'd see they're very far apart. Karlsson relies on his passing more than the two, he's very cerebral, and he generates most of his offense with the puck on his stick. He's relied as the one man breakout for Ottawa. Rielly and Yandle generate offense by using their speed to join in on the rushes without the puck. Neither of them can slow the game like Karlsson can either.



Gardiner isn't like Yandle. Yandle doesn't do 3 laps around the net with the puck. Both Yandle and Rielly move the puck off their stick relatively quick because they love to pinch off the line and get into an opportunity to score. They're your "traditional" offensive defensivemen.

I havent watched Yandle much, so maybe. But I definitely would compare the way he thinks the game more to yandle than kieth or letang.

Another good comparison in playing style is JM Liles, although rielly is better in every way except for the shot

 

[Daisy Jane]

I know this is the Rielly thread - but I think, especially with the Duncan Keith/Brent Seabrook comments from Chicago - Nonis isn't going to move either one of these guys for less than a kings ransom.

 

[mikebel111*]

IMO, I have seen gardiner more like karlsson than rielly like karlsson

 

[BIitz]

I havent watched Yandle much, so maybe. But I definitely would compare the way he thinks the game more to yandle than kieth or letang.

Another good comparison in playing style is JM Liles, although rielly is better in every way except for the shot

My whole comparison was style wise. I never said he would top out as yandle, and even then if you "top out" as good as Yandle is, that's a very good pick.

He does remind me a little of JML. And I see the same thing in Yandle except Yandle is much better and does a lot of other talented things offensively that I see Rielly trying.

 

[JackJ]

I know this is the Rielly thread - but I think, especially with the Duncan Keith/Brent Seabrook comments from Chicago - Nonis isn't going to move either one of these guys for less than a kings ransom.

Wouldn't consider moving either until the next wave of young D (Percy, Granberg, Finn,etc) have established themselves.

 

[TheLeastOfTheBunch]

I truly question just how much you seen Rielly play in the WHL.....I do not believe it was very much at all. He did all the things that you credit Karlsson with....he controlled the pace of the game, his puck support is better right now then Karlsson....so I really do not see that you understand or watched him play much at all. Rielly is Rielly and his skill set is very unique....speed, skill, passing, IQ and strength....with great acceleration. Playing his weak side at 19 years of age....

Yeah, he was the guy who always set up the offensive tempo for Moose Jaw.

I don't put too much weight with the comparisons thrown around in this thread. For example, he already has a bigger frame and is better battling along the boards than Yandle. I mean, Rielly's got 73 hits to Yandle's 18 this season.. Yandle's a great offensive dman though, don't get me wrong.

 

[Trainspotter]

I havent watched Yandle much,

Don't worry, I'll bet dollars to donuts that neither has the guy you're responding too.

 

[Trainspotter]

I truly question just how much you seen Rielly play in the WHL.....I do not believe it was very much at all.

...and you would be right.